Would Harry Arter, Steve Cook, Simon Francis, Michael Keane, Curtis Davies, Michael Dawson, Jonny Evans or any other average HG Prem player turn their back on the ball like Zungia did for their second? It's that part of our squad / game which is lacking severally. Leaders, passion, players with balls and a desire to win for WATFORD. Not technically the best footballers but will die for the team, every team needs some. Can you imagine our team talks? I can just envisage them lacking so much enthusiasm and energy. Whoever is recruiting is obviously not taking the personality and mindset of these players into consideration or if they are then they're a bad judge of character.
Everyone on the forum knows that if Mazzarri is not good enough the Pozzos will get rid of him. No one questions that. We all know it. You are merely stating the bleeding obvious. But you are just demanding that everyone make a judgement on the matter now, based on your judgement that we'll lose the next three games, and that you judge that to be enough for the Pozzos to chose to act. Both are your speculation, both seem unlikely in the opinion, it seems, of most other people on the forum. It is not that you are saying anything insightful or speaking a greater truth: you are just predicting the worst and expecting everyone to empathise with your angst, and make a brash statement subject to an opinion they do not share. We are in a good position, we have a decent overall record. We are generally playing well, but Mazzarri still has work to do. There is still much to be positive about, and as long as we are playing positively, getting nine points out of the next three games seems about as likely as getting none, based on most people's interpretation of our form. You can be a negative as you like, but try not to be surprised if people don't agree with it, and after they've not agreed with it once, there is little point in making them disagree with it a second time. People do look beyond results and the table, and they see something different to what you see; so when you accuse anyone of not seeing the wider picture purely because they do not agree with you it is a bit of an insult. Not a big one, but very annoying when it seems that your own opinion seems to hang solely on our performance in the last game. Sorry, but that is how you seem to flow. A win or a draw next week will render all of what you are saying in this thread a little superfluous.
Hornetboy is correct, if we spend the season being good every three games and pick up enough points for 14th then we have not progressed. I believe mazzari is still learning, the team are still learning, we'll be better with a couple of injury problems resolved and sometime soon one of the forwards will hit some form. So unlike hornetboy, I see no reason to be so negative.
An example of that line often trotted out that "British players give more passion and commitment to the game"? (Except the England team when they play in a major tournament)
Why does progress necessarily mean we have to finish higher than last year? I see this squad as needing a good clear out. At the least some players need to know they can't just bob along for 12 months safe in the knowledge the bloke holding them to account will almost certainly be gone before them. It needs one experienced head coach to get hold of them and have a couple of years run at putting his ideas in place and influencing signings. We can't have more Doucoures and Berghuis' - signed for a coach long since gone and left to rot. We will never progress by constantly replacing head coaches but I suppose it's natural that some fans, like yourself, now see that as the only and preferable solution as it has worked pretty well to date. I just don't see that luck holding out. There are issues festering and they need confronting. While that happens, and the coach gets to know the league, there's bound to be inconsistency. Mazzarri himself will be learning 10x more about the players in adversity than he ever will in the games we win. And yes, excuse or not our bad luck with injuries is having a big influence on things too. If Mazzarri can oversee this transition that will be progress in my books. The league finishing position is of lesser importance (on the proviso we end up 17th or above) as there will be opportunity to kick on in coming seasons without our house being built on sand.
Wasn't it Leicester (2 weeks ago) where all our players were hurling themselves in front of every shot Leicester had? My memory might be wrong, but I seem to remember being impressed by that.
Again, you seem to not actually read what someone writes, but decide to make comment anyway. I've never said I want Mazzarri sacked and I never said that we have to finish higher than last year as a sign of progress. It's quite annoying when you do this, as others read what you write, and if not challenged assume this is my actual opinion, when in fact it's something you made up. Where we finish is immaterial, as long as we see progress being made. Of course we cannot finish in the bottom three, but apart from that, I do not really mind where we finish.
Everything you've written is also incorrect. Must be something in the air today. Instead of telling me how wrong I am, give examples of where we are improving. I asked this several times to others, but all I get back is I am wrong. Hmmmm......very compelling argument. I explain very sincerely my view, but you seem to be offended by it......then exaggerate my point just to make it sound ridiculous. It's a very boring, tried and tested forum tactic. Let's make it crystal clear what my view/opinion is, so there is not twisting or muddying of water later on. I want to see progress on the pitch. By this I mean good, coherent performances. I do not want Mazzarri sacked, but I think if we continue our recent form and lose the next three, he probably will be. I do not like the excuses the coach makes after a defeat and the increased ill discipline of the team. I do not think zonal marking or playing three at the back is helping. It's actually part of the problem. I do not judge the side by results alone. I look at the overall performance of the side. My personal opinion is that the last 8 performances, only one has been any good. If the form of the last 8 continues, we will nosedive down the league. We've been lucky so far this season to have attained 18 points. On performance alone, we did not deserve to beat Hull, Boro and did not deserve the draws against Bournemouth and Swansea. This gives us an extra 6 points. Had we got the result to match the performance, we'd be in trouble. The language barrier IS a problem and creates a disconnect between coach and fans. I've not heard one chant in all this time for the head coach, so I think the majority of fans think this way also.
that was only the british players. The foreigners were on the ground cowering in the foetal position.
Is this really the basis of your argument? Are you new to football? Football results aren't based on who "deserves" to win based on possession, shots on target, the opinion of a simpleton on a messageboard, or any other statistic. Goals are all that matters. That's the beauty of the game.
I think you need to reflect on what you're writing rather than blaming the reader if so many people are misunderstanding you. Your version of progress seems to be highly subjective and doesn't seem to acknowledge there are any challenges at all in the squad or with outside factors like injuries. And totally ignores the fact that until this very weekend we were ahead of last season's pts/game tally so progress was being made by any measure. Anyway, probably best to revert back to 'let's see'.
Excuse me, but could you point out where I say you are wrong? That is the route of your problems. If someone disagrees with you, you think they are saying you are wrong and sadly take offense. Your entire response is dealing with how I said you were wrong, but it is clear that I do no such thing. You are not reading what is being said to you. You may not see it is the case, but sadly it is very clear. You are always going to argue with people because you do not understand what a discussion of opinions is.
Only a few have misunderstood me. The usual stirrers seem to do this. Anyway, I've made my points very clear on another reply, if you care to read that #254. I actually agree with your points with regards to the state of the squad. I think they are valid, but not the only reason as you seem to claim. My overriding concern is that we are not making the level of progress I would have expected this season and performances lately have been largely disappointing. If you disagree with any of that, then fine, but I know a lot of fans agree with my statement.
As predicted, you've done your best to avoid answering my question. Give examples of where we are improving. The rest is just white noise.
Would all the usual suspects please stop picking on HB1? You know who you are, and you know what he's trying to say.
I actually like responding to intelligent posters, but I'll make an exception in your case. Be part of the debate for once instead of the usual correction of people's spelling/grammar. I bet you're gutted spell checker is on here now as it makes you largely redundant.
I hadn't noticed that there is a spellchecker because, obviously, I don't make speling misteaks. You will notice a couple of sensible contributions I have made even to this thread (you might not agree). Just pointing out, that true to form, this thread is starting to descend into a Hornetboy1 "you are willfully misinterpreting my posts and no, it's not because of my abrasive and sometimes opaque style" thread (TM).
It's called a debate between members of the forum. There is no abuse or name calling going on and it's healthy. You should join in sometime, you might get something out of it.
Are the press stirring things up with Mazzarri? This contains a quote, totally out of context with the article. http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sp...aryl_Janmaat_not_a_long_term_injury_casualty/ “I’m still very angry for the game we lost unfairly" then it adds a follow on about Janmaat. However, it does show an insight as to how he is thinking, which is all wrong. He perceives himself, or the team, as the victim, which is totally incorrect. He has to break away from this Jose Mourinho mind-set. Sky just did an analysis on the penalty and sending off with Dermot Gallagher. He went through both incidents, explaining the laws, and the referee got in absolutely right. Pereyra was sent off for a petulant kick, and McClean, no matter how much we might dislike it, did nothing wrong. The ball was in play and he is entitled to kick it where he likes. There is nothing in the rules to say he cannot do this. A yellow card for ungentlemanly conduct is all they can give. The penalty appeal on Pereyra was also correct. Foster got to the ball first and made the save. Mazzarri has no right to say we lost the game unfairly. What he needs to do is work at sorting out all our many deficiencies and leave things out of his control well alone.
Indeed. I don't have an issue with either of the decisions. McClean is there to do exactly what he did, to rile players into stupid decisions and get them sent off. Which he did. The fault lies with Pereyra and this strange 'world is against us' attitude that seems to flow from the team during the games and from the coach afterwards. I'm surprised Walter hasn't been punished for his comments after the game and perhaps that's what he needs. Didn't he say 'i don't talk about referees' at the start of the season? Now it's all he ever does.
Yes, fair enough, #254 is much clearer although I don't agree with it all. I'm not claiming the inherited problems are the only reason. The set piece defending needs serious work I agree. And he needs to make his mind up where Pereyra fits in as at the moment he's like dynamite down the middle/in a free role but shackle him to the wing and he's largely ineffective. That said this staying in the PL lark is likely to be largely dull. The sooner fans get used to that the better. Demanding or expecting year-on-year improvement will only lead to disappointment. We're well into second season syndrome now and to add to it we're at add crossroads in club development. Do we spend more money? Do we upgrade the academy further? Do we expand the stadium capacity? I reckon a lot rests on surviving this season. As it stands we're on track. It's a frustratingly long, bumpy and boring but we're on it.
A lot of what you say makes perfect sense, but I tend to disagree that we should not expect progressive improvement. We have to set the bar somewhere or else how do we achieve things. At the end of the day, I agree it's still all about staying up, but we do have to look at progressing. The EPL is ruthless, and it's very easy to fall into a losing run. When the signs become clear this is the direction we are going something has to be done to alter the course. Now you can give it more time and hope things improve or you can act. Only the owner knows the exact ins and outs at the club. Only he can true gauge the vibe and know how bad it could get. He could be very happy with things, so fair enough or he could be having concerns. I personally can only say what I see and right now there are far too many negatives. Irrational excuses, ill discipline, poor defensive work, ponderous attacking play. It all adds up, and none of it can really be denied. Points on the board is keeping the pressure off, but my concern is if nothing improves, then that will quickly be eradicated. I don't really see improvements, only a little bit of desperation such as trying out Zonal marking. These outbursts towards officials is another indicator that the coach is worried and trying to deflect the blame.
Just saw the highlights of the red card incident as it was quite difficult to see from the stand, it looks like a load of nothing really? McLean kicked the ball at Pereyra, bit of a **** move but nothing to get wound up about, and then Pereyra lost his temper and sort of kicked out at him. I can't help but think if Pereyra just walked away and our players didn't react it may have just been given as a yellow each? It doesn't look like Mclean tried to stamp on Pereyra but maybe that's just from the angle of the camera.
Sorry HB. You are clearly fielding way too many posts at the moment to bother reading what I have written. Suffice to say you have never asked me any question, and I never said your scenario is wrong (I even said you were stating the bleeding obvious).
Even in the quote you put on your reply is the question I have posed to you. So I'll ask for a third time and put in upper case to make it a bit clearer. GIVE EXAMPLES OF WHERE WE ARE IMPROVING.
The club will claim that he said the referee did a good job, it was the translator that said the wrong thing and criticised the referee!
That quote was the first time you mentioned that question to me. You never asked me anything, just accused me of avoiding a question you never asked me, presumably to avoid the points I had raised with you. The point of the post was to show you were not reading my messages you were replying to so forthrightly. Not only do you prove that point in the most convincing manner, you then ask me a question for the first time that has no relevance to the posts you are so ineffectively responding to. It is a shame. You have some valid and interesting ideas at times, but you constantly seem to think that your understanding is on a level the rest of us cannot perceive, when all you are doing is stating the bleeding obvious and then explaining why you alone are able to understand the intricacies of such wonders. In reality, it is likely you'd argue just as vehmently with yourself if your posts didn't have your name on the top of them.
