Watford FC 2-1 Brentford FC - 30/09/2014

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Smudger, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    THE HYMENOPTERAN DERBY

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    Founded in 1889 by Brentford Rowing Club as was the norm then to fulfil the need for a winter activity to keep their athletes fit. After a nomadic existence the club settled upon its current home Griffin Park in 1904 which was a former orchard swallowed up by the growth of the London suburbs. Four pubs The Royal Oak, The New Inn, The Griffin (which lends its name to the ground) and The Princess Royal are sited at each corner usually providing a place over the years for supporters to drown their sorrows.

    They were as with us a member of the Third Division South in 1921.But the fortunes of the two clubs showed a marked separation with Brentford reaching the First Division in 1934 and like us impressing in their first outing achieving the heady heights of fifth and mirroring our entry into the top flight being in the top half of the table until the outbreak of the Second World War.

    The interruption did not do the Bees any favours as the club spiralled down the divisions reaching a nadir with relegation to the Fourth Division in 1961. Along the way they did manage to become the first side to play all then current 91 league clubs.

    With the club in crisis they narrowly managed to avoid being taken over by local rivals QPR while on the field the club to coin Graham Taylor yo-yoed between the bottom two divisions. But by 1992 the team managed a return to the second tier if only for a season. Despite a relegation back to the fourth tier in 1998 excitement was not in short supply with several playoff final appearances at Wembley.

    Unfortunately for their loyal band of fans these ended in disappointment. A loss in 2002 to Stoke was further compounded as with recent events at Griffin Park by missing out on automatic promotion in their final league match. An unwanted experience which we too can empathize with.

    While fans might have hoped the takeover of the club bu the Brentford Supporters Trust might impart better luck on the pitch it saw the club end up in the bottom tier in 2007 despite the efforts of Leroy Rosenior and then considered a top manager of the future Terry Butcher.

    It was former Bees legend Andy Scott revived the clubs fortunes with promotion to the third tier (League One) achieved in 2009 and the club settled into League One with solid home form enabling the team to compete until the beginning of 2011. A run of poor results saw Scott resign with Nicky Forster and Mark Warburton taking up the reins.The latters appointment has seen in recent seasons a flow of players from the Vic to Griffin Park (Harry Forrester, Rob Kiernan, Adam Thompson, Lee Hodson to name a but a few) with Mark tasked with the role as with Nani under the Pozzo's to get the right players for the manager. Despite securing a midtable position Forster was replaced by Uwe Rosler who slowly but surely started to form a team capable of challenging for promotion.

    The end of the 2012-3 ended in heartbreak with the team missing out on automatic promotion with that last gasp effort from Doncaster events that were later repeated with memorable scenes and euphoria at the Vic a week later. There was yet more heartache for the Bees when yet again they failed in a playoff final this time against Yeovil.

    But undaunted and under Roslers guidance the team picked themselves up and secured promotion the following season to join us in the second tier. This was despite the German leaving in midseason. His successor was Warburton who remains the current incumbent and a believer in technical football. Indeed he was pivotal in setting up our own Harefield Academy. The future for Brentford looks rather bright at the moment with a new stadium scheduled to open in 2016, a promising academy and a plan which sees the club plying it's trade in the Championship on a long term basis and an eye on promotion.

    Brentford Community Stadium:

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    Playing Style:

    Completed passes against Leeds with Button in goal on the left. A great deal of the play as with other passing maps for the Bees is down their flanks:

    [​IMG]

    This is our pass map against Blackburn which shows as with our other passing maps a great deal of activity in the middle of the pitch. Gomes is located in the right hand goal on the map:

    [​IMG]

    Warburton prefers to play a short passing game from the back sometimes employing a high press. Compared to us their main method of attack is down the flanks. The fullbacks Bidwell and McCormack provide an attacks with width and overlaps. Several players like Judge, Odubajo and Dallas provide this width further upfield and are quite content to switch flanks at will.

    Pritchard, Tebar and Jota are all technically adept and drop into the channels pushing on into support of the sole forward. Apart from one game Warburton plays with just this one forward which has varied from Tommy Smith at the beginning to Proschwitz. As befits their differing styles Proschwitz is used as a targetman for long balls holding up the play for the midfield to support him while Smith and Gray (a scummer) have the ball into feet around the box.

    We should expect a 4-1-4-1 as the sole game in which Warburton switched to a 4-3-3 saw a comprehensive defeat at Middlesbrough. As befits the away side and most sides coming to the Vic they will attack on the counter as they have done in their away games this season.

    Playing Personnel:

    In terms of experience McCormack who has recently signed a new contract Craig,Douglas and Smith if he plays provide the bulk of it. The rest of the team is relatively youthful and inexperienced at this level. Pritchard, Judge, Tebar and Jota are all technically adept and the creative pivots, Odubajo and Dallas provide pace.

    Warburton has assembled a squad with real potential picking up players rejected from PL academies ie Bidwell, the best of the crop in the lower leagues like our former target Scott Hogan and using his knowledge of the European market to sign Betinho and Jota. The latter was a key figure in the promotion of Eibar to the Spanish Primera last season and an astute buy.

    In terms of injuries Tommy Smith has recovered from his knee problems but Scott Hogan like Tamas is out with an ACL injury and club captain Kevin O'Connor is also absent. The loss of Adam Forshaw and Clayton Donaldson two key components of their promotion winning team from last season has not been felt.

    Possible Brentford line up for tomorrow

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    Season so far:

    Brentford have played six of the teams we have encountered so far. And their results almost match ours barring a draw against Charlton and a loss against Bournemouth. Like us and reflective of the nature of the Championship they have been fortunate to pick up some points while dropping others. A fortunate win against Rotherham can be married to an unmerited defeat against Norwich.


    Scorers and assists for the Bees this season:
    [​IMG]

    Match statistics from Squawka:

    [​IMG]

    Where are we ?

    At first glance 17 points from nine games and sitting fourth in the table may not look disappointing. However the last three games have given cause for concern.

    [​IMG]

    The team is not playing as a unit from front to back.It is still more a collection of individuals where moments of quality have rescued the team. There is a distinct lack of urgency at times from the pressing upfront which is never in concert. The passing in the final third and in midfield has been sloppy and casual at times spurning opportunities and allowing the opposition chances.

    The absence of Munari and Andrews has been felt in terms of covering the defence now that it has switched to a central pairing. Toszer and Murray (who looked off the pace against Blackburn) failed to provide enough coverage.Both fullbacks have been weaknesses. Credit has to be given to Paredes for his efforts but Pudil has been exposed several times. Blackburn's equalizer saw Angella drawn out with Pudil caught upfield. And service from the flanks has been equally poor with several promising situations squandered by a poor final ball. One player in particular has been a shadow of his former self. Not to mention that getting to the byeline has been a rarity.

    Apart from some sloppy passing it lacks speed to pull the opposition around and create space for players like Vydra. And passing simply for the sake of passing is not going to win matches. It lacks direction and thought. One move against Blackburn lasted 27 passes with the ball remaining in the middle third for all of that time.

    There is a tendency at the moment to over complicate, to take an extra touch and on the counter instead of the forward ball there has been a negative mindset to hold onto the ball whereas under Zola the one thought was to attack at speed. It seems to have afflicted Anya particularly.

    We have a very talented squad. In all honesty one of the top three in the division in terms of quality. But even the best teams have to out work the opposition in order to impose themselves and allow their extra quality to win out. So far there have not been enough Deeney like performances. The loss of Sannino and his replacement by Garcia was far from ideal meaning players would have to get adjusted to new ideas. His unfortunate illness meant he barely had the time to work with most of the squad. This may account for some of the lack of direction in recent matches. Not to mention the tinkering in formation and personnel.

    There still is no settled backline. Injuries and suspensions are partly responsible and there is no settled midfield.Again injuries have not helped. Given the example of Leicester and Burnley last season a settled first team line up would be preferable. But perhaps the need to keep what is a large squad happy has forced the managers hand, not helped by the loss of Beppe to some unrest for this very reason. Maybe Billy will be firmer and clearer in his squad expectations and choices in creating more of an on field empathy between the players.

    One has also to bear in mind several new players have come into the team and it will take time for them to fully integrate. It will take a few games before Billy fully implements his ideas. On the positive despite not playing to anywhere near our potential we are in a fine league position. Deeney should be back shortly and although McKinlay has not been the main man at any of his former clubs he is a hard nosed, down to earth character who gets the best out of players, is a good tactician and works well with youngsters.

    Last and by no means least we would all like to wish Oscar Garcia and his family all the very best for the future. One's well being is the most important thing in the world. It may have been a very short stint and perhaps not very sweet but fingers crossed he returns to the game he loves and regains his health.

    Get well soon Oscar

    [​IMG]

    Brentford fan forums:

    http://www.griffinpark.org/forums/forum.php
    http://www.brentford.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=2

    Our historical record against the Bees. They used to have the upper hand but in the last three decades it has almost always been the Hornets that prevail:

    http://www.11v11.com/teams/watford/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Brentford
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014
  2. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    FYI, match date in the title has a typo.

    It'll be very interesting to see how McKinlay lines up for this.

    I would think the club would emphasise the 352 given that's what we recruited for, that 3 in the middle is the best way to get the most from Abdi/Tozser, that Paredes is a far better wing back than full back and that Vydra plays best with a strike partner, but McKinlay strikes me as a no-nonsense 442 type (which should at least still allow for the best from Vydra).
     
  3. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Nice one. Particularly like the "playing style" pitch with the red dots!

    What does it mean?
     
  4. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    You can make out the density of passes to an extent zztop. We do faff about in the middle of the pitch a fair bit without any real purpose.
     
  5. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    If you move a few arrows about you can spell 'tinpot'.
     
  6. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I'm pretty sure the second map and your explanation didn't show on my Ipad first time. Now I see it and that's interesting. Do you know of those maps are pretty typical, or are they strictly one offs? If typical, parades and Pudil are in for a busy game!

    Edit: I've just read your explanation properly. You've already answered.:doh:
     
  7. Alban Hornet

    Alban Hornet Squad Player

    FIFA Predicts...

    Watford 1 - 0 Brentford

    74' - Anya - Ighalo passes across the six yard box and Anya beats the keeper to it

    Watford substitutions:
    58' - McGugan off/Abdi on
    67' - Murray off/Anya on
    76' - Tozser off/Munari on

    Man of the match: Heurleho Gomes

    Odds: Anya FGS and 1-0 @40/1

    ---------------------------------

    P10 W7 D1 L2 Pts22 GD6

    We would be 1st in the table

    Top scorers:
    Vydra (3)
    Anya (2)
    McGugan (2)


    Most assists:
    Abdi (3)
    Ighalo (2)
    Angella (1)
     
  8. Layton

    Layton First Team


    I got `ringfenced`
     
  9. miserableoldgit

    miserableoldgit Reservist

    I got Meldrew is a ****
     
  10. bert slater

    bert slater Reservist

    100% agree about the faffing smudge. Great preview as always .
     
  11. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Now that's how you write a preview!
     
  12. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Superb preview Smudger , thanks .

    Look forward to seeing how we set up under BM. If TD was fit I think he'd sensibly resort back to 3 5 2 at home . However with no proper replacement the temptation is to play a 4 2 3 1 to utilise the less physical attackers .

    Am encouraged by BMs comments that we need to trust in Vydra more . This was backed up by Tozer saying we need to find Vydras runs more
     
  13. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Two very winnable games coming up . 6 points would very likely put us top 2 .
     
  14. NortholtHorn

    NortholtHorn Reservist

    I don't see your logic behind 4-2-3-1 to utilise less physical attackers? Genuine question. I've always seen a lone striker needing to be more physical than those in pairs. Alas...

    Gomes
    Ekstrand Cathcart Angella
    Anya Abdi Tozser Munari Pudil
    Forestieri Vydra​


    Insistent on them two being given an oppurtunity up front together. Think it could work wonders. Fessi's selflessness and high work rate coupled with Vydra's direct approach and clinical finishing sounds like a dream on paper. Admittedly we'd by light up top but no lighter than going either one up front in there own.

    Ighalo needs a break to pull himself together, can't be easy mentally to miss the chances he's had, shame we're not in any cup competition still in order to allow him to get that elusive first goal without so much pressure. Hopefully those two do the business allowing him to come on second half and have an oppurtunity.
     
  15. Lets hope Oscar doesn't tinker again
     
  16. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Great preview, 1-0 win, Vydra with the goal
     
  17. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    I'd like to see a few (especially Fessi coming back into the side) but considering McKinlay only arrived on Friday and only got the job yesterday, I'd not expect many, if any, changes to the starting line up tonight. I think he'll be cautious this evening, on the back of a draw at Blackburn anyway. It'll only be after the international break that we see his true philosophy and identity on the side.
     
  18. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

  19. artvanderlay

    artvanderlay First Year Pro

    I'm hoping that Brentford go for a slightly different line up as I was really looking forward to booing Andre Gray for 70 minutes before he is sent off for a frustrated hack at Pudil to jeers from the entire ground.
     
  20. miserableoldgit

    miserableoldgit Reservist

    No way on this planet will Paredes who has been as good as anyone all year not play and i think Angella is injured - so i think 442 tonight
     
  21. miserableoldgit

    miserableoldgit Reservist

    His heart ain't in it!
     
  22. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Yes Angella is out, though Abdi is back.

    Match 10 and already because of injury and suspension we've barely been able to play a settled backline. Another new combination there tonight.

    (although Ekstrand-Cathcart was the partnership after Tamas got injured)

    Gomes
    Parades, Pudil, Ekstrand, Cathcart
    Tozser, Abdi, Munari
    Anya/Dyer, Vydra, Fessi (or Ig)
     
  23. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Fessi Vydra Dyer if we play this system. I must have missed it but what's happened to Hoban?
     
  24. miserableoldgit

    miserableoldgit Reservist

    He came over "a bit $hite" in one game so has been sent into oblivion for eternity

    Agree with Malteser on the side
     
  25. Pozzo Out

    Pozzo Out Squad Player

    Didn't realise how much of a grudge some Brentford fans still hold against us. Still singing about GT going off to see the pope apparently.
     
  26. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    I remember playing them a couple of times in the mid 90s and they turned up acting like it was the biggest game of the season and a massive rivalry. Most Watford fans were just laughing at them and their one-way hatred compared to the total indifference from us. Bless em.

    One game was in the League Cup when the Vicarage Road stand was being built and we were put in the Rookery next to them. We'd beaten them the season before and they got relegated. Spent most of the game signing "Who sent Brentford down... Who sent Brentford down... We sent Brentford... We sent Brentford...We sent Brentford down".
     
  27. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    3-5-2 please!
     
  28. wfcloyal

    wfcloyal Reservist

    Gomes
    Paredes Cathcart Ekstrand Pudil
    Munari Tozser Abdi
    Forestieri Vydra Dyer

    Subs: Bond Hoban Doyley McGugan Anya Ighalo Fabbrini
     
  29. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    We haven't played them in nearly 17 years. Since 1979 we've only been in the same division 3 for seasons before this one.
     
  30. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Yes excellent preview Smudger. Fessi v Ighalo? Fessi every time for me. The only way there is ever an argument for Fessi not starting imho is when Deeney's playing although it would be nice to have the luxury of both.

    Fessi is a proven goalscorer (Ighalo isn't), Fessi is technically excellent and Ighalo is nothing like the target man that Troy is which would be the only potential reason for him playing. So it's a no-brainer for me.

    But playing Fessi in support of Vydra demands we move the ball from midfield to attack and through the 'final third' in a certain way. Firstly keep in on the ground (apart from subtle chips over the top for Vydra to run on to when he has space to do so). There is no point to any 'hoofing' at all without a big, strong, target man to hold the ball up. Balls to the feet of Fessi are what's required to release his trickery. Secondly, speed is of the essence so move the ball forward quickly whenever possible although a bit of possession play in midfield is sometimes required when needs must. But recognise the opportunities for speed when they arise and go for it.

    Finally, I see no evidence that Vydra is a 'shadow of his former self'. What I do see is a player making lots of clever runs into space which often aren't being recognised in the way they were previously and a degree of frustration resulting from that. That's understandable. There is no point in having a striker of Vydra's class and composure on the pitch unless you play to his strengths. Zola knew that and now McKinlay has indicated he does too. Forzza the mighty 'Orns.
     
  31. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Thats because Cesarini pulls players out for the slightest knocks.

    Abdi missed Blackburn game because of a dead leg the previous day. A dead leg is run off in a matter of minutes.

    Ive never known a Watford team to have so many players missing through injury as has been the case in the past 2 years.

    It makes it very hard to play a settled team with this approach.

    I doubt very much if Burnleys players didnt play through knocks last season.
     
  32. Bloke

    Bloke Reservist

    To be honest, I like to think I am fairly erudite, and have a good vocabulary - but hats off to you Smudger, I had to google HYMENOPTERAN
     
  33. Legskeattch

    Legskeattch Squad Player

    I went to secondary school with Brentford's Goalkeeper David Button, so fingers crossed he has a very good game and we win 1 nil :)

    His girlfriend has recently had a baby so he will be tired. For this reason I suggest we start attacking their goal in the last ten minutes.

    #ITK
     
  34. Shakespearo

    Shakespearo Reservist

    It was in our Division 4 title year, we drew 1 1 (I think) at the Griffin Park ground and the game was on The Big Match. Brian Moore spent a lot of time after the highlights analysing the Watford goal: a clearly audible whistle from the away end of the crowd caused the Brentford defence to stop, allowing us to score. Maybe they still bear a grudge.....
     
  35. In the old days a whole range of player injuries could be quite easily fixed with a bucket of water and a sponge, and whatever was left used to clean the bus windscreen before driving home

    Modern electronics has meant players need specialist treatment

    Lets hope Almen Abdi is back from the dealers
     

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