Tottenham FC Vs Watford FC - 30/04/2018

That was a decent performance tonight. The defence is so much better with Cathcart and Kabasele in there.

Gracia is slowly getting to grips with things I feel and it's becoming clearer to me the problem is with certain players, rather than the coach.

My god, how many times do we have to see Gray fail. He's not a Premier league player. I've said this before, the only part of his game which is any good is getting onto a through ball, but he's hopeless 1 v 1. He's fluffed every single chance in this situation this season, and he's had a lot of occasions where he should have scored. He cannot hold up the ball, he cannot lay it off and most of the time he's just not involved at all, as the ball passes him by. The sooner we cut our losses with this guy, the better.

Holebas is a major weak link in our defence, and is another one we need shot of. However, I will stick up for Gracia here, as he has no alternative but to pick him. Gracia has identified Janmaat as weak, and his bombed him out of the team. Mapps is a vastly superior right back and we look much better when he plays there.

The only thing I will blame Gracia for right now is picking Karnezis over Gomes. It's pretty clear to me, and always has been, that Gomes is the superior keeper. His decision has cost us the first goal tonight, and set the tone for the defeat.

But I love watching some of our players.....I really do. Hughes was fantastic again. Deulofeu was magic, even Carrillo looked good when he came on. Deeney showed all his detractors how to lead the front line. He wont look like scoring much, but he holds up the ball so well and brings others into the game.

Richarlison is very wasteful, but he's raw. He needs a lot of guidance if he is going to succeed in the Premier league, but there is raw talent there.

One big success story for Gracia is Capoue. He was really good tonight. His reading of the game superb and he cut out so many passes and nullified Spurs.

It's another bad luck story for Watford though. It's groundhog day and Watford are becoming so predictable. We all knew it would be a defeat. We all knew we wouldn't score, but I do not blame the coach (apart from picking the wrong keeper). The shape was good and we took the game to Spurs. The coach cannot be blamed for some dreadful finishing, which has blighted our campaign.

We do need a result against Newcastle, and if we do that, we can relax and enjoy a free hit at United.

 

Yes, Gino and Giraldi. Anyone that looked at that squad in the summer and thought Holebas and Zeegelaar were all we needed at left back for the whole season needs their head examined. We amassed some real strength in depth in central midfield but at the expense of every other part of our squad. Doucoure, Chalobah, Cleverley, Hughes, Capoue is better than any team outside the top six. Unfortunately, the rest of our squad needs major surgery.

 

If a coach can’t be blamed for some dreadful finishing, why do we have one? What is he spending a week’s training sessions working on? Don’t good coaches improve players?

 

Javi does a lot of stapling and laminating during the week. He can't do everything.

 

Well let’s hope he’s not laminating or stapling together next season’s contract.

 

If there was ever a game that summed up this season, it was this one. Squad changes due to injury, missed chances & a couple of mistakes at the back costing us something from the game. With some more composure we could have got something from that.

Actually thought we played ok, especially in the first half when we created some good openings. Spurs for their part were fairly toothless and the two goals a side, Karnezis didnt have a shot to save. In fact he didnt have to do alot of anything really, which makes his howler even more annoying. We created 3 or 4 really good chances and failed to take any of them.

Cathcart/Kabs defended well except for the 2nd goal. Richarlison played ok, made a nuisance of himself but let himself down with that miss. Fermina had a quiet afternoon, Hughes played well in the 1st half but faded in the 2nd. Thought Capoue had a good game and probaley the pick of the players. We looked more threatening with a mobile striker on.

Disappointing but positives to take.

Thought the ref had a good game bar a random two minute spell in the 2nd half when he wrongly booked wanyama for a nothing foul on Richarlison then let the nasty rodent off for the most blatant yellow card you'll see.

 

It's a shame we've not got anything better than Arsenal loving chants to throw at them. It's almost like our fanbase are secret Arsenal fans...... Oh wait.

 

I thought Capoue and Hughes played well, but Docoure was below par. Kiko was not very effective, with Richarlison and Gray poor. Again the communication between the keeper and back four was poor. But there is no thread joining the team together Spurs (quality players) were able to slice through the team at will.

 

But another poster said we did well defensively and kept Spurs at bay.

It's all so confusing.

 

I think we all know Deeney is not a finisher in the Premier league, and never has been under any of the coaches. Okaka and Gray are just not good enough. There's only so much a coach can do. He could pick me and you up front. We'd be useless, because we're not good enough. That's not the coaches fault. It's the players we've signed that are not good enough, and that is a problem which lies outside of his remit for now.

I've heard lots of Spurs fans say, that they played really bad, and if Watford could finish they would have won. I totally agree with this. The game plan was good and that's all the coach can really do. Set up the team correctly with the correct motivation and make correct tactical decisions when needed. Once players cross that white line it's over to them.

 

I dont think we're far away from being a really decent side at this level. 3 or 4 players brought in, while trimming the dead wood is all thats needed not the slew of signings seen in previous windows. I just hope the head coach, whoever he may be, is given more of a say in recruitment and not just fobbed off with a loanee from our sister club or a striker that was a different type of player to what was required like Silva was. There never seems to be a coherent strategy around our recruitment with the committee often seemingly doing their own thing.

What we also need is some stability on the pitch, the injuries we've had this season have killed us - we've been relying on players that were signed to be a back up to the back ups and a kid thats played two seasons back to back without a break. There was a stat on 5live in the build up to the game, apparently we've had 10 players out for 2 months or more - the most in the premier league. We've had something like 10 different centreback pairings in 30 odd games this season and the same back four never seem to play more than a couple of consecutive games.

 

Richarlison was scoring goals earlier this season but hasn’t netted under Gracia. His was the biggest miss tonight. Should we be disappointed Gracia hasn’t managed to turn around his poor form of late?

Doucoure is our leading scorer. He’s not scored under Gracia. Should we be disappointed about this? He had a chance or two tonight.

When we beat Chelsea, Gracia was rightly praised highly. He was given credit for turning our slump around and for improving much about the team and certain key players.

By that same logic is it not right to criticise him for presiding over a slump and for a loss of form of certain players he keeps picking?

To my mind it’s naive not to expect him to be able to do anything about improving our defending or our finishing,

 

I was expecting a tanking tonight, so I would have taken only a 2-0 defeat before the game. However, I was actually disappointed we did not get something from the game in the end, because other than having some sort of mental block when it comes to scoring goals I thought we played relitively well tonight.

OK there were a few individual errors, the Karnezes one being the most prevelent, but all in all it was a reasonable performance.

Hopefully the dam will burst against Newcastle and we will tank them as we could really do with ending the season with 40+ points and a better GD, for a confidence boost if nothing else, and who knows if we click against Newcastle we just might get something at Man U as well.

 

You should only judge the overall performances. If that tells you he's not doing a good job, then fair enough. But when we create so many good scoring chances against a team like Spurs at Wembley, it has to be a good sign.

Gracia cannot put the ball into the net. He didn't tell Richarlison to blast the ball over from 5 years. He didn't tell Gray to hit the ball at the keeper when clean through. All a coach can do is set up a formation that is likely to give the opposition a problem. He did this successfully tonight. No one can deny Watford didn't cause Spurs a lot of problems.

The substitutions were also good and had a positive impact.

You have to weigh up the overall performances. We were extremely na*ve at Liverpool, which I blame Gracia for, and we were lacklustre at Huddersfield and West Ham, which I would also lay the blame with Gracia. Apart from that, I think we've done ok. The home performances have certainly been much better than anything we produced under Silva or Mazzarri.

We look like a team. I honestly believe, if we signed a good striker, a central defender and sorted out the left back position, we'd see a much improved side.

Gracia may not be the answer, but it seems the players are playing for him. He's only failing because of the limitations at both ends of the pitch. He's not had a transfer window so has inherited the squad and has got on with the job. He's not once moaned about anything, which is admirable. It's easy to make every excuse, such as Mazzarri did, or not take the job seriously like Silva did. He seems to want to be at Watford and if the players like him and want to play for him, then that's a very good indicator.

 

I know giving Deeney credit is extremely unpopular on this forum, but he's a good player. We looked a totally different side once he came on for Gray. I know he won't score many goals, but he will give defenders a hard time. He's there to ensure the ball sticks up front which allows others to profit. This is his game. I'm not sure why fans cannot understand this.

 

Yeah, we looked a much worse side. He was next to useless, as ever. He is not a good player, not anymore.

On another note, you know that I am not someone who shouts you down for on reason here, and I am always prepared to give you your opportunity to express your views. However, if you ever happen to be wondering why you get into so many arguments on here HB, and why so many people 'have it in for you', it's because you have an incredible prediliction for sticking the boot in out of nowhere, and then getting incredibly affronted when someone calls you out on it, clutching your pearls and screeching how dare they, very similarly to how you have just done to Malts over on the 'Gracia Out' thread.

You complain about being persecuted yourself, but you never allow for the possibility that anyone else's point of view might even be valid, frankly, and you can't help yourself but throw in a piece of breathtaking arrogance in any post you make that simultaneously implies both that you know far more than anyone else about the players, the club, and football in general, and that no one else understands anything at all.

It's not because there's a conspiracy against you, it's because you're very frequently casually irascible and impossible to debate with civility, despite your frequent (implied) claims to own the copyright on civil debate.

 

Haven’t read the thread so don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but has there been any word from the club yet on how they are going to identify and issue lifetime bans to the Watford supporters who sang “Arsene Wenger, he’s won more than you” towards the Spurs fans tonight?

Easily the most embarrassing, toe-curling moment of the season by far, which is no mean feat when you consider that Andre Gray captained us during one game.

 

Not sure what's prompted this response by you, but I never start an argument on here nor do I insult anyone. I only ever stand my ground. If someone has a dig at my or casts the first stone, I will respond like for like. Like I say, I'm not sure why you've written what you have, or what's prompted you, but if you have something in mind, go back to that post and really look at what the original poster wrote to me. I bet you he's had a little dig or sideswipe in the first instance.

 

Definitely looked better with Gray up top as we countered much quicker, much like under Silva.
Makes a big difference having a striker that moves rather than stands still in points

Deeney did next to nothing, including somehow missing Hughes' run because he hadn't bothered to look

 

Big difference? We ended up with nil. Again.
What would make a real difference would be having a striker that can score and defenders/goalkeepers that can do their job.

 

Yeah they are both not up to scratch, merely saying I think we're more menacing when we play the striker that actually keeps up with the pace of a counter attack

 

I'm choosing to assume this is a whoosh. Surely nobody actually thinks that Gracia made Karnezis drop a clanger, made Richarlison miss from 6 yards or made Gray toe poke at the keeper when through on goal?? If you can't see that we play really decent football under Javi but are constantly let down by individual errors then what are you watching? The guy hasn't moaned about his squad once but he's probably got the worst left backs in the league and the worst set of strikers!

 

I usually agree with what Malteser says, but missing sitters created by good approach play, cannot be blamed on the coach anymore than our keeper failing to catch a simple cross can be.

I've said this before, margins between a win, draw and loss are often so small. Those two easily put away chances by Gray and Rich, and one easily caught ball by our keeper could have seen us win that game - and the coach wouldn't have been able to influence any of those three things.

I thought that we were pretty good, but once again, our inevitable defensive mistake has been highlighted by our complete lack of firepower up front. It is the same story every week.

If we had a quality goalscorer then we would be a top half side, I have no doubt.

 

A #9 in a 4231 is there for much more than just ensuring the ball sticks. He needs to be complete forward, and Deeney doesn't even come close.

Deeney has only ever looked good in a pair (Vydra, Ighalo). But if you play 442 then the midfield 2 are overloaded by 3.

Okaka is the closest we have to a complete forward on basis he's a little less garbage than the others. Gray and Deeney are equally ****: one can score goals but can't move, the other can move but can't score goals. Both completely pointless.

 

Agree with all of this. The team put on a good show and gave Spurs plenty of problems, but let the coach down at key moments. It should come good.

Special ire reserved for Gray though. Rarely chasing (big difference when Deulofeu came on) rarely in the right spot. He therefore had one thing to get right but his shot was pretty tame.

 

You need to formulate your own opinions as opposed to just taking all your thoughts from here.

 

Reading all the arguments about Deeny and Gray is like people discussing what they prefer diarrhea or constipation. They both operate in the same area but neither are want you want.

 

What I was saying was a good coach should be able to improve player skills. Gracia has had three months now to work with his squad on a near daily basis. He can work on them every day on their finishing and their defensive skills. That is the point of having coaches. Yes we have played some decent football, and that’s the least we should expect with some of the very decent players we have. I’m sure he’s not the only coach in the world that would get us playing decent football.

 

?

 

Thought we played quite well to be fair, once again being ******* useless in front of goal let us down - had we got a goal I think we could've gone on and got something out of that.

Hughes was brilliant, what a player, won't be here too long - enjoy him while he lasts.

 

Fair point - one runs about all over the place but leaves you feeling empty. The other holds things up too long and leaves you feeling frustrated.

 

Deeney saying to Will Hughes 'I didn't hear you call' was pathetic. By that point the crowd was silent and you could hear a mouse fart. What he should've said was 'Sorry'.

Holebas at the end rolling around with a 'head' injury ten minutes after Richarlison cut his face and carried on after treatment. One player was worried over by other players. One was ignored. Take a guess which.....