Stevenage Borough 1(4)-1(3) Watford Fc - League Cup First Round

Ah the 'Barbie Klaus' er 'Clause', that'll be it!

 

I once travelled round Scotland and before I went I was curious to find out what 'proper' Scottish porridge with salt was like, so I ordered it one morning at breakfast.

Dear me. It was hard work. The culinary equivalent of a 46-game season and then some. To pinch a quote from Peep Show, I shovelled it in as fast as I could, looked down and there was still the same amount left.

 

Hah - I would be intrigued to try it in his favoured final form:

 

Yes it is quite a big passage of play. It also means relatively little, when we were in The Prem the gap between ourselves and the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, United etc was far bigger than the gap between us and Stevenage yesterday yet we still beat a few of those a few times. It's football, it happens, Man City don't even dominate a full 90 every week. Derby took Liverpool all the way to penalties last year in the 3rd round. They are now in League One. It is football, nothing to be really surprised or worried about in isolation.

Of course Ismael is still assessing the squad, it is a process. You sound like Gino now, a squad as ****ed as ours was isn't fixed in one window. Also, it's well known, nothing and I mean absolutely nothing teaches you about your players like a full competitive match. You can play all the friendlies you like, simulate a match situation as much as you want, it's never going to be the same. He's had two full matches to see a lot of his players in a match environment and contrast that with opinions and ideas of them he has from training. Some rise to matchday, some shrivel, you won't know it till you play them.

 

I didn't edit out anything.

Our form was actually alright prior to the Cup Semi Final - in our 3 previous PL games we'd beaten Fulham 4-1 at home, lost only 1-0 at home to Arsenal, then beat Huddersfield 2-1 away. Our form and performances only dropped off a cliff immediately after we beat Wolves.

Your claim was that somehow if we'd actually lost the cup semi to Wolves we'd have been demoralised and our PL form would have suffered. Yet it was Wolves who lost, but whose PL form actually ended up being very good afterwards, including them beating us at our stadium. Wolves losing the Cup SF in that way clearly did not make a significant dent in their team's morale, as you would have hypothesised.

Us winning the Semi Final in that fashion ended up being the climax to our season, and afterwards we lost motivation, energy and focus for the league with the looming cup final (which we got spanked in anyway).

 

My word! So don’t make it with nice flavours such as milk and honey but put neat butter and brown sugar on top at the end!

 

The Wolves semi final was on April 7.

The Arsenal and Huddersfield matches you mention as being evidence of our pretty decent pre-SF form came AFTER the semi final, on April 15 and 20.

So our form didn’t quite fall off a cliff. It clung on for a bit first.

Evidence, perhaps, that the memory sometimes plays tricks on us.

 

What has the form of another team got to do with how we’d have reacted to a loss in the semi? Different managers and entirely different players involved.

We always trailed off at the end of every PL season as soon as we were safe, how many did we lose on the bounce under Mazzari, 5 or 6?

Can you not countenance the idea that given we as a side had a history of coasting and taking our foot off the pedal, that both getting to the final and losing the semi could’ve lead to us being demotivated for different reasons? How Wolves reacted to it has precisely zero correlation to us, a completely different football team.

If you want to completely gloss over and ignore how we always faded and gave up at the end of the season, ignore how our setup, squad, culture, manager, players etc. are completely different to Wolves then that is up to you.

We all get that after the 10th time of you saying it, you think exiting any cup at the earliest opportunity is the best thing can happen to any club, and that there is no possible scenario in which progressing further can be a good thing, and us losing the semi could’ve only have been a bad thing, we also all know by your own admission you’re never wrong, so me trying to explain that we’re a completely different team to Wolves and that their results post semi have zero correlation to how ours would’ve gone is an utterly pointless waste of both our time.

You win, exit cup = always good and we end up in Europe, stay in cup very, very bad always.

 

Fair enough.

We might have been crap in those games though. Huddersfield were still pretty terrible at the time so only a 2-1 win isn't all that.

I'm sure my memory is correct in our performance vs Southampton being absolutely shocking. The goal conceded from Cathcart at the time felt indicative of an increased lack of concentration. Our last few games of the season were all really bad performances.

 

No, because I can't recall any seasons where we've clearly been demoralised in the league after getting knocked out the cup.

In other seasons just being safe was objective complete, but in 2018/19 we still theoretically had something to play for right until the end with the possibility of qualifying for Europe.

 

I went to that game and we were decent. Deulofeu was on fire. We scored early. Then added a second with 10 mins to go. Huddersfield pulled one back in injury time.

We also played very well (with 10 men) against Arsenal. We then drew with Southampton having shot ourselves in the foot in the first 20 seconds.

So, although we lost the last three, this narrative that we 'fell off a cliff' has never really stacked up.

But your argument that we might have been crap in those games is certainly compelling!

 

A few thoughts on the Stevenage match now that I've watched it:

- It was hard to tell exactly from the angle, but the challenge on Ngakia early on seemed a candidate for a red card - it looked a studs showing lunge, which might have been off the ground considering where it landed on him.
- Ngakia should have been subbed much earlier, it was clear he wasn't moving right. He'd better not have exacerbated whatever knock or injury it was by needlessly carrying on.
- Louza really played like he didn't want to be there. Completely anonymous for most of the match and bottled out of a few 50/50 tackles. A noticeable change from his game vs QPR.
- After scoring we too often played similar to how we were under Edwards - constantly looking for the easy pass backwards, as opposed to being more ambitious in trying to get a second goal as we had done at the weekend. Perhaps where the mentality of it being just a cup game against lower league opposition showed.
- Our defending from the corner was shocking - both Sierralta and TDB left their players unmarked at the back post to try and go for a ball they were never going to get. Definitely something to look at there for the coaches.
- Bayo should have scored that chance for his second, he shot straight at the keeper - albeit it was on his left foot. He keeps finding himself in the right place though.
- Out of all our players at the moment, we'd probably be most screwed if Bachmann gets injured because Hamer really is atrocious. Most of our problems, and their chances, came from poor passes from him.

 

The only way to make Bachmann look good is to play Hamer. Very smart tactics.

 

Bayo is pants.

Can't believe it only took 9 months and one tap in during game 1 to remember this.

 

Not sure there’ll be a lot between them. From the small sample of Valball we’ve seen so far distribution from the goalkeeper is pretty crucial and neither’s up to scratch.

 

A frustrating ‘what could have been’ for us West Country based ‘Orns though!

Neither Bayo nor Bachmann are pants. That’s too dismissive and lazy a summary. For sure both have their weaknesses and aren’t complete players, but both have their good points too. The challenge for our coaches is to try and iron out their weaknesses. Let’s see!

 

Did Wolves get knocked out? Haven’t seen their result.

 

They didn’t play as they’re PL (for now lol). They meet Blackpool in the next round.

Morning btw! Pity we both lost out on a relatively short trip down to Exeter eh!

 

I know, it was a jocular reference to some other posts on this thread.

 

Bayo is a conundrum .

He gets into so many goal scoring positions and sometimes offers good link up play. If he can improve his consistency he can become a very decent Championship 20+ goals a season striker .

If he can’t , and do it immediately, we need another first team striker .

 

I agree about lazy dismissive comments, but the best coach in the world is never going to make Bayo into the hold-up centre forward we need.

 

Indeed! Which is why we are looking for a new Number 9 I guess!

@Keighley Whoops sorry. I’m clearly off the pace this morning!

 

Out of interest, how do you rate Hamer and Bachman against the likes of Almunia and Gomez?

 

@a19tgg Not nearly as good. How about you?

Back in those early days of our takeover, when I think it’s fair to say most of us disillusioned posters were far more enthusiastic about the Pozzo methods, we really seemed very smart in our goalkeeper recruitment. Getting Almunia and then Gomez seemed inspired moves. These days we seem a bit lazy in that position, in my opinion.

 

Yes we just need to pick up one of the cheap 20 goal a season strikers knocking around who are also excellent at hold up play

 

No comparison, Almunia and Gomez both totally outclass either of our current incumbents.

 

Actually I disagree. The hold-up centre forward doesn’t have to be the one to score 20+ goals, although he has to get his share. Glueing the play together up front allows more players to join an attack, so it can be a second striker or a midfielder who puts the ball in the net.

 

Andy Carroll then .
Davis's strength last season was supposedly, from his NF days, his ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play. Didn't exactly work out that way but with him, Pedro, Sarr etc we had theoretically great inter-play but no-one to actually score enough goals. At least Bayo has the ability to get on the end of moves and score or miss. Unless you're talking about to someone to play alongside Bayo, we'll still need someone to actually score. There were some stats shared earlier showing that in VI teams typically the CFs score by far the bulk of the goals.

 

It’s worth noting that VI was very complementary about Bayo which could have been more about man management than truth.

I guess we ll have to wait and see but Bayo isn’t that far away from being a real asset. I hope he ll find some consistency with more game time , but like many I’m not totally convinced.

I do recall that Igahlo in 14/15 looked equally inconsistent and then he scored on second attempt from his own missed penalty , didn’t score for another 8 games, but then was unstoppable after that .

 

The value of a decent number 9 will be seen when we are away to a team top of the league in which we only have 25\30% possession and playing on the counter. If the ball just bounces off his shins or he is out muscled or the pass goes astray then our attacking opportunities will be severely limited.
Bayo knows where the back stick is . He needs no coaching on that front but his opportunities to score will be reduced if he cannot bring others into play .
He has scored 2 in 2 but one was the 4th against QPR when the game was already won and the other in Tuesdays draw against some part timers