Stadium Expansion

Can't believe how few seats there are available for future games already. Even the Stoke game, over two month away, has no pairs of seats available in any of the three areas of the Rookery that I've sat in for the past ten years!

 

All that'll change after we lose to Burnley and Bournemouth

 

Yet there were still acres of empty seats in the Family Stand yesterday. If they won`t change the pricing structure they should move it to the lower GT in the corner by the Vic. At least the empty seats won't be visible on TV.

 

The concourses in the VR end reduce the capacity. There aren't enough loos and exits to allow the full number of seats to be sold there. They put netting or adverts over a lot of the spares that can't be used. There may be a few who have bought seats for non existent children as that's the only place they could get a seat and you can't buy single adult seats in there I don't think. Moving the families would still leave unsellable seats in the VR end unless there is a compete rebuild and there isn't space for that.

 

We could bridge over Vicarage Road forming a tunnel for the traffic as they have done at Newcastle's St James's Park ground!

 

Seats were removed at the front of Vic stand many years ago, to cater for the reduction of capacity. Factor in also the no man's land and i believe all the seats at that end can indeed be used.. and i'm fairly sure have been on occasions.

I think the gaps are more to do with no shows (as other parts of the Vic) and when its a whole family not turning up its more noticeable than ones or two's.

 

and Villa Park.. Old Trafford.. Emirates et al. But these are minor and/or service roads.. not regular roads with double decker buses and trucks going past.

Added to that we'd still need to sort out the concourses, in fact we'd need to build much larger ones somewhere. On top of all that Vic Road would have to be closed every matchday to allow people to get to other areas via the tunnel.. if indeed that would be permissible.

Grand idea.. non starter.

 

There were also empty seats in the Elton John Stand as well.

I guess United aren't the draw they used to be.

 

Vicarage Road is already closed around kick-off and full time, except to emergency services. If the stand was to expand so much that a tunnel is needed, then you'd have a full road width (plus access stair on the other side) to fit in a concourse.

However I do think a busy public road would be a totally different issue to a private access road, like those you mention. And for that reason it's probably not going to happen.

 

Yeah i knew VR was closed for short periods.. but i was thinking it would be for many hours if there was a tunnel. Couldnt see it being open to regular traffic during a game.




Anyway thought i'd make a mock up of a Vicarage road build over. Before anyone says, yes i do have too much time on my hands as i'm recovering from an operation.. and also im not a structural engineer so this is just an idea of how the space might work..




I think the entrance tower/block would be essential.. and then it might necessitate buying up the houses on Oxford Road (or a least their gardens) and a few properties on Vic Road (The West Watford Christian Fellowship no less!)
Yeah i guess the concourse could work like that but i think with limited space because the roof of the tunnel would need to be pretty high for buses etc. The roof would also have to be enormous.


Who's in?

 

Unless St James` Park, Old Trafford et al have a tractor as part of their tunnel construction l`m out.

 

OK, I'm no engineer, so I bow to your opinion that a bridging structure would not work, unless there was a height restriction for vehicles and any buses were re-routed, but would an underpass work? Then we could actually build on Vicarage road itself at ground level, however I would imagine the cost would probably be prohibitive?

 

In reality I think it'd be a stand rebuild. Maybe slightly increase the incline to enable a bigger concourse?

 

The concourse is a problem in the VR end, there's no denying that, but a new stand just to cater for that I think is unlikely.

The next up on the stadium development scene will be an increase in the East Stand, which could even commence next season. I think they may well try to level the pitch before taking on a rebuild of the VR stand, so it will be many years away, if at all I suspect.

 

Absolutely. I was generally trying to speculate what could be done to enable full use of all seats and sort out the concourse. Of course, it makes more sense to increase capacity in the SEJ. Believe it's easier and cheaper to do and is what is likely next.

 

If they rebuilt the stand from scratch could they sink a basement below it and have more concourse within that?

 

Simple solution, get the food and beverages out into the crowd like they do with Baseball using sellers, (obviously not alcohol). Less people need to use concourse, job done.

 

My guess is rather than tunnels or building over it would be easier to buy the houses opposite the stadium and bend the road around a bigger stand.

Do agree a larger Elton John stand will be the next step though. I think it was built with this in mind?

 

I think they really do need to get on with it next season, assuming we stay up. As soon as we look to be well on track I expect Gino will give the green light.

I have a sneaking feeling it could be the Vic Rd End next. The way they've cladded the SEJ stand doesn't suggest they want to go ripping that stuff back down straight away, even if only to extend. And the new corner stand/hospitality box is blocked off somewhat by the Vic Rd End stand structure. Why design it like that unless plans were afoot to redesign the stand blocking it? It looks tailor made for the corner to sweep around.

 

Just a few thoughts on the suggestions about the Vic road end..

Underpass- I seem to recall Bradford discussing this idea at Valley Parade in the 1990's. Final conclusion was that it was beyond their means unless the council helped.. and they wouldn't. It has been done elsewhere though.. on big stadium projects.. but normally only when building from scratch.

Changing the rake of the stand to increase concourse space- Feasible i guess but there are restrictions on rake angle and yes i'd say if you were to do that then it would be as part of a total stand rebuild. Might as well take away the restrictive goalpost roof structure while you were at it.

Digging out underneath- Yes feasible again.. Palace did something similar with the Holmesdale Road stand.. but again probably only worth it if its a total stand rebuild.



So in conclusion i would suggest that if any changes like those where to be considered it would be best with a total teardown and rebuild.. but still with the capacity restrictions of having the road at the back (unless you bridged it or changed the road)

The only other solution i could think was to somehow design two tiers with one directly over the other. It has been done before (old North bank stand) but then it would definitely mean digging down to make space for the necessary larger concourses.

 

As the Elton John stand is the smallest and a prefab. Presumably it is the easiest to remove for any rebuild and reduces the capacity the least (any rebuild of a stand must mean a season back to three sides). As the Elton John stand is the only one with some accessible land behind it, would it not be the best one to build over occupation road and buyout the access to the garages of the houses in Liverpool road? At Anfield they have built a new stand over the top of an existing one, presumably not yo reduce capacity. That would only be possible at the EJ.

 

What do you mean by 'prefab'? It's not a lean to or a scaffolding structure!

 

Using the submitted plans to measure, there is more distance between Vicarage road and the pitch than there is between Occupation Road and the pitch, plus Vicarage road has a substantial pavement stadium side. So, extrapolating from that, whatever you are going to do to the east side of the ground, you could also do on the north side, probably/possibly more easily, but that is speculation.

We could also get a few hundred extra seats from flattening the pitch, modifying the front of the Vicarage Road end, and bringing Sir Graham Taylor's greater extremity into play - we'd be unstoppable then.

 

Buy up the houses, knock them down, move the road

 

I would turn that on its head and say whatever has been done to the North side can be done to the East.

The Vic stand is about 7 meters deeper than the EJ and has around 2,500 more seats. If you replicated the Vic stand depth on the East side (there is just about enough space) and added the extra 20% you'd get length wise it adds up to around 7,000 seats for a new EJ stand.. more than double what it is currently.
This would give an increase in overall capacity up to around 25K.

 

Not to mention it would be more feasible to bridge over Occupation Rd than it would Vicarage Rd (those pesky residents on Liverpool Rd notwithstanding).

 

Isn't the plan for the east stand to add an extra tier - building from behind and over the top of the existing stand. So no need to take it down just take the roof off.

 

Absolutely, was just thinking that with a steeper profile and second tier there could be potential to get more in and improve the concourse, which I do remember being an issue; though there was something mentioned about digging out the old quarry slope and putting the concourse underneath, bit like they did with the GT.

 

The Origin housing on the back of the Rookey right royally screwed our best chance of a sizeable capacity increase. Purchase of Allotments could have been done fairly easily.


Option 1 is to extend EJ back as far as occupation road and add another tier
Option 2 is to demolish the GT, and build over the Hospital carpark, we may need to provide additional spaces, maybe underground to get that one cleared.
Option 3 is to demolish the Vic end and build it higher and deeper. There's an extra 12 foot or so if you dump the parking.

Purchasing of housing and building / moving roads are a non starter.

There is however, the option of closing Vic. road completely if the new access roads can provide sufficient for the hospital and the local area.

 

Plenty of concourse room under Vicarage Road, you don't even need to tunnel (i.e. dig hole, build and bury). As for the stand itself, a cantilever structure would be more environmentally friendly than a drive thru .... either way there's still the huge question of blocked light to local properties to negotiate and something tells me we'd have an easier task by rotating 90 degrees.

 

Are you sure about that?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...arm-terrace-plot-watford-eric-pickles-housing

There has also been a long standing discussion with the club and the council/allotment association about purchasing some land but it never did come to anything. This discussion went back to the 1970's and at one point the club accused the council of blackmailing them on the issue.

I'd dunno about that.. with the clubs new found Prem money i think buying up housing isnt beyond our means.

Yes.. is it really necessary to have Vicarage Road as a thoroughfare with the new road? When is it due to open?

 

Created in a factory to a standard design, and then shipped to site as a kit of parts. Unlike say the SGT which is a one off bespoke stand, as are the Vicarage road and Rookery structures. So the SEJ would be quicker and easier to dismantle or amend. You can buy a very nice Huf Haus factory built prefab home for about £600,000 https://www.huf-haus.com/en/england/london/welcome

 

So am I right in thinking that Dux has previously stated that there are plans to expand stadium to a 30k ?

Apologies if this has already been discussed.

 

Yes.. is it really necessary to have Vicarage Road as a thoroughfare with the new road? When is it due to open?

Well it is if you want to go from the town centre to West Watford or croxley. When the sink hole appeared the whole area was snarled up. The new road only goes to the hospital from B&Q, no through route from/to Hagden Lane. They were doing the surfacing on Sunday - i would have thought it would be open by October half term. There is no way they would allow you to build on or above the road if impacted traffic. Plenty of buildings that cross above major roads, but the cost and mass of that sort of structure would not get approval here.

 

More environmentally friendly how? Or do you mean have a cranked column which cantilevers out a few metres (like the Stadium of Light) rather than spanning horizontally across the road?