[SOLD] Luis Suarez

The only big one for me was not trying harder to keep Ake after his loan.

 

It's a good point for sure - I still think we're actively trying to sell, but it looks like takers are at a minimum. I don't see an English club taking Deeney, Welbeck or Duelofeu. Recruitment is too good these days to spend massive wages on a Deeney or a Welbeck - seems like Welbeck has realised that hence why he's now "returning to the group". Think for both of them a Turkish club is the most likely move and they'll be working hard this week to try push it through. As for Geri, it's looking a small possibility for the first time, given the injury, but I still don't see it sadly!

 

Moose is right.

Providing a link or two to your posts saves other posters time and adds credibility to your point.

 

Ultimately we all love our club. We want it to be successful and financially stable.

We will only know at the end of the season if the decisions being made now were sensible or not. I don't trust the Pozzos to always get things right but I can't see any reason why they would get things deliberately wrong.

If we sell Sarr at any price I will be hugely disappointed. But if it turns out to be one of the last ever £50 million transfers, because Covid stuffs the transfer market, and we still get promoted then it will have been good business.

Tbh I wouldn't want to be Gino right now trying to weigh up the risks and rewards of each decision in the current climate.

 

Yes maybe but we are using hindsight a little. Remember he made very little impression in the second half of the season (fatigue?), struggling to score or even stay in the side. It was sad to lose him and esp to Everton but I thought the price looked reasonable at the time.

 

Yes but given he wasn't our player I'd suggest that should be filed under "poor recruitment" rather than "poor sales".

 

Ultimately, most of the sales we have made have been on 30+ year old cloggers as we haven't really had that many promising young players under the Pozzos so there are very few that could possibly come back to bite us. Depite that:

Richarlison went too early I think. He was in bad form, but £35m + addons looks an absolute bargain for him. He will move for double that.

I know others disagree, but I think Berghuis being loaned out and then sold for £5m was very poor business, particularly given the lack of quality we had in his position and what he has gone on to do since.

I also don't really think the deal for Lukebakio was particularly good. Even if it was a nice profit, it was yet another player sold in a position we had almost no depth and we subsequently got relegated because of our lack of depth in that position.

 

Ivic has spoken a lot about Gray and very little about Suarez. I think he believes Gray and Pedro would work well together in his system. Also Suarez doesnt want to be here. Gray is happy to stay.

 

Me neither. He really needs HB1 to decide what to do with his money for him

 

I give my opinion for free. It's up to Gino whether he takes this advice or not. He didn't listen last season and look how that panned out. Maybe he's learnt his lesson this time, but I won't hold my breath on that.

 

I think our position is fairly de rigueur for relegated clubs. Sure you could point out exceptions but most clubs don’t stockpile a load of cash from the premiership as their outgoings go up. Relegation has pretty alarming consequences.

The COVID Football impact is still unclear and is a bit like playing the financial markets in terms of predicting the future I personally think that things will get worse before they get better as fans are not likely to be back soon and COVID this winter will be a lot worse than what we saw in April. Player prices could drop even further whereas wages won’t necessary drop quickly. Holding onto assets may not be the most prudent strategy and as ever a balanced approach is required.

 

Both those deals would represent a loss on the amount we signed both players for last season, when we can only say their stock has risen. So of course that would be bad business. Suarez on the other hand cost the club nothing and appears to have been sold for a £13m+ profit. I find it difficult to call that a bad deal. Yes, in another place at another time in a different league etc it could have been £20m+ and we can be sad it isn't. I'm sure Gino's sad it isn't. But it doesn't change the fact we need the cash from somewhere.

There's some truth in that of course. Football is all about emotional attachments. I'd always take selling players who aren't in the first team setup over key members of it. For example, I'd be much more gutted if we sold Ken Sema for €15m right now than I am about Suarez. Losing a player who seems happy to be here, has already shown on the pitch he's up for it and has contributed a couple of assists inside three games would be much, much worse than losing a sulky kid who clearly has no attachment to the club.

 

I was thinking more of all the up and coming youngsters signed from Sth America rather than the cloggers who on many occasions we let go too late.
Richarlison discussed above.
Lukebakio - maybe. Great start and that hattrick against BM. Not heard so much about him since and not that many more goals per Wiki.
Berghuis - maybe. Didn't get much of a chance here and is banging in the goals in the weaker Dutch league.
Still, even if they were mistakes, that's not many over 5-6 years ?

 

I'm not sure any 'established' club has come down with cash in hand. Can you imagine the utter fury on here if we got relegated and it turned out Gino had stashed away £80m in a rainy day pot? All we'd be hearing forever more is how he should have spent the money on this player or that position. Even Norwich fans, who support a club which came down after one year having basically pocketed the cash, were far from happy with that strategy.

 

I've not been a huge Gray fan, but he's clearly an asset at this level. Will do very well this season if fit.

 

Ok, how about selling Ngakia for £5m and Sema for £5m? Would represent a profit and would bring in much needed cash. If £13.6m is huge this season, then I'm sure £10m would be massive too.

Of course, it fits your criteria of good business, but these would be bad deals in most people's eyes.

 

oh we know, we know

 

Well there were 3 talented ones in Cucho, Suarez and Estupinan and the rest were absolute dross. Two of those three are now being sold.

My point is there hasn't been many players to make mistakes with. Other than Doucoure and Richarlison, how many of our other players have clubs actually been interested in?

 

You're twisting what I'm saying now. If nothing else I've covered off the Sema point in the second part of the post you've just quoted.

The scenario you've outlined would be unequivocally bad business. You're comparing the sale of one player who - for whatever reason - has not yet played a single game for the club and is sold for £13.6m to losing two first choice players, both of whom would need replacing, for £10m. I don't think things are that bad yet.

 

It’s very disappointing he’s off, and a very low transfer fee.

The market on the continent is certainly very deflated at the moment, with 90% or so of all the spending in Europe so far this window carried out by PL clubs. In Spain and Italy and even Germany they are certainly cutting their cloth.

Another reality is sadly if we receive an offer for a player who we don’t want to leave, Sarr for example, we hold the power. The value of that player can be set by us. If, however, as seems the case with Suarez, it’s a player we are happy to let go, then the value of that player is what another club is prepared to pay.

The club always said we needed to sell first because we can spend money ourselves. The hope is that soon, with four key players now off the wage bill and transfer fees received, we can complete our squad to a satisfactory level. I think we do still need another proven goalscorer. It’s not only about plugging gaps for this season but building for the future too, a future we all hope will be back in the Prem next year.

 

Any chance you could switch to a "subscription only" service ?

 

No twisting at all. Just using another two examples based on the criteria you set out. We signed Sema for £1m....so selling him for £5m would be a huge profit. Same as Ngakia. Got him on a free, but would be an even bigger profit. Outlay of £1m, with a £9m profit. What's not to like?

Of course, you have your own valuation of these two players in your head, just as I do over Suarez. This is the difference. You don't have a strong idea of Suarez's worth, so you're happy to go along with the £13.6m fee the club are selling for. With Ngakia and Sema, you feel stronger about them because you've seen them play and know they are worth more than £5m each.

It all boils down to your own personal valuation of a particular player, no matter what else is put up in defence of the sale.

 

Nope....I'm very altruistic. Why should only the rich have the privilege of my postings?

 

Suarez has fantastic potential if he stays with us. Leaves and he’s Acuna mk2, well overrated. 13.6m a steal. I wholeheartedly take both views.

 

Of course. But they aren't likely to happen so they can be completely discounted by the HC's and ridiculed.

But if they were to happen, Sema would never have been good enough and clearly didn't want to be hear and Ngakia would be some bloke with no affinity for the club and was clearly a mercenary after what happened at West Ham.

You can invent a scenario that insulates our esteemed leader from criticism at every turn. It's remarkably easy.

 

Or if you don't have an opinion yourself, you accept that the decison makers have the best knowledge of his ability, personality and the financial position. If they are prepared to sell with that full info and consider it's best for the club then in the absence of other contradictory info, I'm happy.

 

Yes.....that happened last season......they knew best......we got relegated.

 

We are not in a position financially to be able to stockpile prospects. And we have no basis to judge his monetary value except as what does a good young L1 striker cost.

None of us know how good Suarez is, and yet people are assuming he’s the real deal based on scoring a hat full of goals in a league lower in quality than the championship. Deeney and Gray also did that, and they also scored a hat full of goals in the championship, as did Vydra. Yet none of them could carry that over into the PL. Where is the evidence Suarez can?

 

Different issue HB1. Many reasons why we got relegated. Having finished 11th after challenging for a Euro slot and reaching a cup final, after 4 seasons with no relegation fears, never being relegated with Udinese, I guess they got over-confident.
This is on the issue of selling one player where you don't know the detail of the clubs assessment of him, the financials or the alternatives.

 

Based on watching the player - exactly the same as any player. We dont "know that Messi can do it in the championship, but having watched him, I suspect he would do alright.

There have been big clubs all over Europe interested in him - that would suggest that a lot of top scouts have the same view that he can step up.

A lot of people on here who have never watched him seem desperate to draw frankly bizarre comparisons to either League 1 or Acuna, but there is a reason Granada are after Suarez and not Ivan Toney.

 

But surely you look at the fact it's a club that finished high in La Liga and qualified for Europe that's buying him? And the point he had clearly been scouted by other top sides - Atletico, Valencia, Marseille, Barcelona...but sure, no evidence he'd have been good enough for the Championship.

Whatever way this is dressed up, it's cheap for a player of his potential. Thats the main point of debate. Whether it's necessary or not, is separate and circumstantial.

 

If our financial situation is as dangerous as it appears to be, do we really think we could afford to pay the wages of Gray, Deeney, Success, Perica, Penaranda, Pedro, Sarr, Murray, Welbeck, Sinclair and Suarez? 11 players who are strikers or have been played as strikers. 11! Of those 11 Murray(sigh) and Perica will be staying as they're new signings. Of the other 9, only Suarez has had any real, concrete interest so far. We need to shift players that either aren't up to it, or don't want to be here, otherwise we'll be paying out every week for players on the bench or not in the squad.

Suarez doesn't want to be here, Marseille didn't think he was worth €15m, Granada do, so he's gone. If we were in the PL it may have been worth playing hardball and waiting for that £20m bid to come from...somewhere, but I can see why we've not taken that risk in our current position.

 

If all those clubs want him and value him highly and know their onions why isn't there a bidding war? Why is the highest bid 15m Euro? Where is the evidence he's worth more?

 

As I keep saying, Vlad didn't want him here. He either has seen him play and doesn't fancy him, or thinks he's a ****. Either way I'm backing him.