Ok. So in the scenario that there are a group of investors that are happy to purchase/rescue the club from the clutches of GP. We assume they have enough money to sustain us at this level, but know nothing of their motives. Who would be in support of Pozzo selling up and leaving?
Answer to that question is never black and white though. If we had a take over and no background check was done by the EFL or FA we could be given to an ownership who has full intentions to take us under and sell us bit by bit to the highest bidder. Look at all the problems and trouble Portsmouth went through, they thought all the boxes were checked but that turned out to be a crook. I want Pozzo out as much as the next fan, but unless the takeover is for the good of the club and in the best interests of the community and taking huge steps to erasing our debts, then I would rather stick with Gino. Who is far from perfect but at least we know (more or less) where he stands as an owner.
I know. That's why it's hypothetical. Basically, who is so disillusioned with Pozzo's stewardship that they would be happy to roll the dice just to get them gone? Your opinion is totally valid btw, I'm not slating it. Just curious as to how many have reached the point where they just want them gone
They’re not even pretending to offer any of the benefits they once offered. We’re being under invested in and are therefore inevitably in decline. Young talent will soon stop being willing to come to a side scrapping at the foot of the championship/ League 1, which is worse than where we were before the takeover. Thanks for the memories Pozzos, but the game has moved on and so must we.
I’m not sure the game has moved on, stockpiling promising youngsters from abroad, showcasing them and moving them on for a large profit is working for Brighton. They unfortunately have more cash and a more sophisticated data/scouting system right now meaning they more often than not land on hits not misses. I feel like Pozzo is recognising this and is looking to Africa now as much as he was South America but the relegations have really made us less attractive, as has the sale of Granada which made work permits easier to obtain. Hypothetically, if we were to say this summer is most similar to 12/13 where we had a bang average Champ squad, Pozzo simply doesn’t have 15 good players on his books that he can give us anymore, even Udinese are looking at relegation let alone having reserves the quality of Vydra, Abdi & Forestieri they can loan us. It’s over, one too many mistakes and they just don’t have the cash they need to fix it at the speed we need them too. I think with unlimited funds, Pozzo has enough football nous to rectify the mistakes and get us back on the right track but they just aren’t cash rich enough to accelerate things so are trying to do it with punts and favours from their time in the game. To answer the OP’s question, I’d roll the dice yeah just for the fun of the unknown but I’d say rolling the dice gives us more chance of landing in League Two than being under Gino does.
Interesting that you've mentioned this. As I sat through the Hazelwood Sports Club AGM just now I was pondering a scenario akin to the German Bundesliga. Could we,as fans,garner sufficient funds to achieve a buy out. How many have fan IDs? I'm not wealthy in terms of Pozzo's wealth,but I can invest in a co operative,I'm certain others can and would. What figures are we talking of? Could we muster the wealthiest among our fans,Miles Jacobson (spelling?) etc? In any event, it's time for change.
That's it isn't it, the Pozzos were shrewd operators in the age when traditional scouting was king, they could find out about kids from South America before anyone else knew about them, but now anyone can look at a spreadsheet and see the data for a kid who is supposed to be the next Alexis Sánchez, then go from there To answer the OP, I'm very conflicted, they have run up big debts and have limited means compared to their peers, it's hard to see any positive way out, but who on earth is going to want to buy us?
You had me at ok. Get Pozzo out of this club, we're only going one way under him and he's too thick and stubborn to turn this around.
Stick with Pozzo. Anyone who sees potential in us at this point is by definition an even bigger aching simpleton than Pozzo. We're in this together till the end.
They want to sell. They don’t want to invest. They will be selling any asset to balance books. They will bring in managers who can’t select their required players. They will create a disillusioned changing room of players who are here to pick up a salary not a squad of winners. And they have stopped entertaining But they own the club, I can’t afford to buy them out. So yes want them to sell and prefer it not to be us “selling out” to some oil oligarch
But that’s precisely how the game has moved on though. It’s not just Brightons star lizard stuff, stuff like Wyscout gives all clubs access to information on players all over the globe, and every club has access to performance data on players that has moved on significantly in the past decade. Udinese’s decline and the reason they can no longer just give us 15 quality players to drag us out of the championship hasn’t happened in a vacuum.
Owners come and go, some have a penchant for red headwear. The Pozzo structure worked well at the start got us a decent stadium and helped us punch above our weight whilst digin us out of an almighty cess pit of a hole. The advantages have been recognised and replicated elsewhere now. We are about where we should be for a small town without it's own John Lewis. The only way to really kick on from him is to have a new owner with a **** ton of cash and with financial regs this has beome more tricky and in any such case the club soul we have left would be lost. I'm in the be careful what you wish for camp. We need a refresh of ideas and management control, the owners injecting a small wedge and taking a step back to appoint a manager with full footballing control is probably all we need. Breaking ties with certain agents and unconventional banking arrangements might also help.
I will earnestly admit I'm slightly surprised to see these sentiments still in evidence at this point in time (not an attack or criticism, as such; you're obviously welcome to your opinion). It does make me curious, though. My questions would be: > in any such case the club soul we have left would be lost. Why is this guaranteed to happen in the eventuality of a new moneybags owner, and exactly how much club soul could we say we are operating with at this moment, given the way Gino runs it and the reputation he has earned us in the wider footballing world? and > We need a refresh of ideas and management control, the owners injecting a small wedge and taking a step back to appoint a manager with full footballing control is probably all we need As a genuine question, how can you possibly believe that this is an option that would ever be on the table, and therefore a viable solution? In my view, Gino has very clearly shown time and again that he will never be prepared to do this, and when it all went **** up and there was enough fanbase unrest that he was forced to acknowledge it, he paid the barest lip service, tickled a few tummies and then actually carried on doing exactly what he has always done, ruling as a despot and refusing to do any of the things any Watford-affiliated person has been crying out for for years, leaving the squad and club underserved whilst maintaining ludicrously high expectations of its various constituent parts.
Just look at pretty much every other club that has had a rich sugar daddy takeover. Unless someone like Elton takes over it's going to be a money making exercise and you don't make money unless you turn it into a marketing project and I recall "project" being a word that many didn't like when even the Pozzos used the term. And to your 2nd question. something will change at some point, it has to. The definition of insanity etc. I'm no Pozzo apologist I'm just old enough to have experienced far worse owners and more than one near bankruptcy. Hence, "be careful what you wish for"
Are we near to bankruptcy at present? Genuine question. Can we fund next season's budget, and the one after?
We were £115m in debt in July last year. £56m had to be paid this year, hence the low budget spend. That’s how I read the situation. In July last year we were operating at a £500k loss per week. I believe operating costs will still be crippling this year as well as next, although I don’t expect it to still be £500k per week. If the debt we were obligated to pay last July has been or is being paid, then we should have only owner debt to worry about. All future revenue from existing player sales have been directed to Macquire in order to pay off loans we took out this year to cover running costs. So, even if we have just owner debt, which Gino takes a healthy interest from, and even if we half the operating costs to say £250k per week, that’s still £13m per year we’re losing to just keeping the club running plus paying an owner debt interest of around £5m per year. So basically we have to sell around £18m of talent to break even, by my crude calculations. Player sales have to be in advance of £20m before we can even think of investing back into the squad next season. Next season, financially, we will be able to trade. Beyond that, unless we start signing a few young Pedro types, it’s going to be difficult to continue operating at the level we are currently.
Thanks! Not encouraging. I guess it's whether Gino has funds to bail us out if: 1. We run out of players to sell at a profit Or 2. We get relegated and our income drops further Not sure what happens if he wants to call his own loans / our debts in??
The only way out of this, is outside investment or a full sale. The Pozzo’s are clearly in trouble. Udinese are on the bring of relegation themselves. There’s the possible court case hanging over Gino also, with recommendations for the severest of penalties. £35m fine and 12 year prison sentence if it goes to court and he’s found guilty.
Pozzo isn’t a rich sugar daddy and had no personal or emotional attachment to Watford what so ever, but you point to the ground having been tarted up as a benefit to their stewardship, surely a rich sugar daddy would have the ability to do even more than Pozzo, who is by no means a rich man and has mostly used debt and player sales to finance anything you highlight as being good under them.
New investment in some shape or form is clearly needed though why anyone would invest money just to cover trading losses and steady the ship in a cash burning mid table champ club isn’t immediately obvious. A full sale could be great if the buyer was prepared to lose money to invest in an attempt to get us back to the prem, within funding rules of course. A full sale would be awful if it was to another Bassini, Petchey, Bonser type who was looking to extract any cash they could and allow the club to slide down the leagues rather than invest. If we cast the Pozzos as a poor owner, we’ve only really had one good owner in the last 50+ years.
Sadly, Pozzo has to now go down as a poor owner, who had a good start. The decline has gone on for far too long without any tangible signs of corner turning. Considering the debt levied, the state of the squad, the disconnect with the fanbase, I think calling Gino Pozzo one of the worst ever owners we’ve had is becoming a fair comment. Basically, because he’s nosedived the club from a mid-table Prem to a club looking over their shoulders to League One in just 5 years. The scary thing is, I do not believed we’ve bottomed out yet. We’re still falling. Why new owners/investors would come? Well, why does anyone ever get involved in football? These people are still lining up to get into football. There’s no shortage of people wanting to buy a football club. With the investment, why anyone would want to get involved with Gino Pozzo, baring in mind the pending court case decision, I think it would be a major stumbling block.
Yes it’s all opinions innit, but I think looking at the whole term I’d rate them our second best owner ever based on their achievements. Just a shame it’s ending on a sour note as they have taken us back to where we started. Had they only bought us in 2019 I’d agree with you. I agree that they seem to have completely lost it now and while it’s always tough adapting back to life on a champ budget, I do think the next move is likely to be league one rather than prem, though that was always the case before they came. A change of owner is more likely to be positive than negative, though we really need one with deep pockets if we want to get back to the prem.
Yes, and I will say sadly, they've now undone all that good work in the first 7 years. Some nice memories, but you've really got to judge the club in the here and now. After 12 years of ownership we are without doubt, in a much worse place as a club than we were before they first walked in the door. You have to make things better not worse. This is how I'm judging the ownership. The high was high, but the low is low and it's now, without a sign of ending. To have the capability to transform the club into a Premier League side, showed they had tremendous ability, hence why their failure now (for me) is even more emphasised.
Disagree on that one we're not there yet but there is a worrying trend downwards and a few things hanging over the current stewardship. We have had previous owners who allegedly demanded all the petty cash from the safe? Who signed a shirt sponsor that never paid a penny. Owners who threatened through the courts to send us bankrupt if they don't get a pay off. As I said be careful what you wish for. The Pozzos are not amongst the worst, yet.
Not the worst, but they are entering that bracket where they are in the conversation. As for “careful what you wish for”. I wish for a good owner. I don’t need to be careful about that.
They have now entered into late-Bonser-era territory. Bonser was by no means a really ‘bad’ owner, in the days when well-off (not rich!) local business men owned their local football club. In a period when nearly everything depended upon attendance money, 18k at Watford was massively below the 40k or more the ‘big clubs’ pulled in. He eventually oversaw us reaching level 2 for the first time ever. It was then that his shortcomings as an owner became obvious; 3 seasons in Div2 and an FA Cup semi soon went sour as we fell to level 4 as he could only operate via ‘strict financial controls’. The last 4 or 5 seasons of his ownership wiped out the memory of any ‘good times’ he’d been in charge of. That’s where Pozzo is now.
Anyone coming in that doesnt want to use the club as a money laundering front gets my vote. Not saying thats whats going on now just dont want anyone new to do it. Oh and somebody that hasnt been charged with offences in foreign countries and doesnt associate themselves with other people that have been charged with criminal offences would be nice.
I’m worried we are missing out on all the repressive regime cash sloshing around. Big shout out to Kim Jong Un.
