Hillsborough song the ther day

I engaged brain before hitting the keyboard, i know what went on and of course it was a tragedy but why must we continue to bring up tragedy that will only cause bad emotions amongst liverpool fans ?

I stand by what i said and i#m really not bothered anymore, by all means have the minutes silence when requied but all this protest stuff is boring and a waste of time. Nothing will come of it and as somebody said, it should be left to lie.

 

That's a bit of a 'broad brush' approach you've taken there! I don't think you can compare a war with a football disaster afanof. One is taught in history lessons at school and you would frankly have to be an idiot of epic proportions not to appreciate it's significance. The other is tradegy unknown to the current younger generation on the whole. I could take the point further. People still die in wars, they don't die in the UK in stadium disasters anymore.

Then again I'm probably not wrong in thinking your point is more in relation to respect or the lack thereof...

 

And that is thanks to the people who died. The war analogy is more apt than I intended. We can sit safely in our seats (more safely still next season) and watch the football. We won't be crushed, we won't be trampled on, because other people were. Our loved ones don't have to worry whether we are coming home.

 

I think that this is a very emotive topic, to some it was very real, for others it is almost like a story as they didn't 'live' through it, if liverpool fans want to continue the investigation that is their right. If the fans want to sing a song about it it is also their right.

 

here here
Couldnt have put it better myself.

 

I have an idea this is a futile argument if only as we're poles apart but here goes nothing...

Surely the idea of the poppy is that people should remember the sacrifice and where it all went wrong because it is still a very real threat today? Not only are we looking back but we're looking forward to the future too. But Hillsbrough can never happen again. It is a (very tragic) part of history, the mistakes of which as you point out have been learnt from. It's much easier as a youngster to be dismissive of something if it is no longer a threat.

I imagine you'll probably say that's a load of old rubbish...

 

That in itself in not rubbish.. i do however feel that you are missing the point that the LFC fans are making and that is that the families have a right to know the truth.. and not the truth as was told by the sun newspaper.. and until that truth comes out they will continue to demonstrate about it.. as is their right... if your loved ones died in such tragic circumstances wouldnt you also seek to find the real truth behind it and who was responsible and make them accountable?

 

I'll just say that at the time they thought WW1 was the war to end all wars and never imagined that it would happen again.

 

I understand what people are saying and it should definately but mourned, but protests aren't going to change it, maybe thats easy for me to say because i wasn't effected by it, but thats my opinion whether some people think that makes me a "moron" or not

 

I don't think they are trying to change anything - they just want to know the truth of what happened.

 

I dont think anyone wants this to degrade into name calling.. i think this is one of those threads that will continue for a while as there are different viewpoints on it.. no demonstrating wont change what happened.. but it MIGHT get something done to get the truth to give the families some closure... IMO they deserve that.

 

And didn't I say earlier...

Think you've missed the whole nub of my argument if you thought it was about the right to demonstate. It was more about the apathy shown by the younger generation towards an event that happened when we were all very young / not even alive.

 

Lord Justice Taylor issued a report in the late 80's.

They continue to campaign because they don't accept the findings.

Move on.


New net please captain.

 

Life I'm afraid - if it doesn't actually affect that person then that person won't care!

I could now go on a rant about the youth of today ;D

 

Spot on. And I could set off a whole other debate by saying "Why should they?" but I fear the foaming at the mouth it would cause from some contributors could lead to short circuiting keyboards and power failures all across the South East ;D

[PS. I didn't mean you specifically afanof, I like a good old 'no winners' debate]

 

Would actually be an interesting debate - but please set it up in the steam room!!!!

 

I appreciate what you said earlier though it is a reasonable assumption to make that any credible witnesses could be brought or are too old what have you is flawed as there were many thousands of witnesses there that could testify to what they saw which would for a start destroy the truth as reported by the sun newspaper.. you talk as though it was 100 years ago.. it was 18 years ago.. there are still many many people who remember it as if it were yesterday that were at hillsborough on the day in question.. and 000's more like a few on here that vividly remember the footage we saw as the horror unfolded on TV.
You can argue that these arent credible all you like and that memories fade but as has been said there are certain things that happen in life that no matter what you will never forget.. that get etched into your brain and be it 18 years or 18 months on you will still be able to recount what you saw, more so if you were actually there witnessing it first hand than on TV i grant you.

 

As no-one has quoted anything you posted, I don't think you can claim the credit.

 

Not claiming the credit for anything, pray tell how you reach another inaccurate assumption?

 

i dont know how anyone can claim credit for fishing on what i perceive as a very reasonable and well argued debate by a few people about something as important as the hillsborough disaster... unbelievable!

 

But the Sun story has been discredited hundreds of times over. What more do people want in relation to that? Eighteen years is a long time in the law as well. I'm also sure many people could give statements as to what happened that day...but we already know. The Taylor Report covered all that didn't it?

 

jobr - A reasonable person would infer from your 'new net' comment that you were saying you had been fishing and the net was full. If that is a wrong inference to make, please tell us what your comment means instead.

Agreed wfchornet - I thought it was a good debate.

UEA - Your posts are intelligent and well argued (if a little misguided at times ) and I enjoyed the discussion.

 

Obviously not to the satisfaction of the families.. or else the demonstrations wouldnt still be ongoing..
Theres the rub.. its the families who need closure and the truth.. and until they are satisfied they have it the LFC fan base will continue to demonstrate.. which IMO is what this debate was all about in the first place.
I do however concede that as it has gone on you and i have sorta lost track of each other somewhat!!

 

Who are you again? ;D

 

The Sun story was discredited then but KM brought it all up again last month and still claims it was true. This is from The Independent 2 Dec 06

Mr MacKenzie apologised publicly when the Press Complaints Commission condemned his paper's descriptions of Liverpool fans urinating on the Hillsborough dead and stealing from their bodies, in an edition headlined "The Truth". But judging by his comments to a business lunch staged by the law firm Mincoffs in Newcastle upon Tyne, he did not mean a word of it. "I was not sorry then and I'm not sorry now," Mr MacKenzie told his audience. "All I did wrong there was [to] tell the truth." Unrepentant barely defines what followed next from Mr MacKenzie. Responding to a seemingly innocuous question about how often he visited Liverpool, he launched into a general attack on Liverpudlians - possibly unaware that a journalist from The Journal newspaper was present.


That's why it's all come up again now.

 

A reasonable person?

i don't recall stating anything about having been fishing or that any old nets that may have been in my possesion were now full.

I did however post;
Lord Justice Taylor issued a report in the late 80's.

They continue to campaign because they don't accept the findings.

My request to the captain may have been in anticipation of the comments that could possibly be forthcoming to those two lines.

Theres only one Kelvin McKenzie walking along smoking a bong in the lovely Sun

 

Would explain more why they are still outraged by the whole thing!!

 

Nah, don't buy that explanation, jobr.

 

This implied that you or someone was fishing.. if that was an incorrect assumption then i apologise.. but when its a discussion being had by a number of reasonable adults about something as grave as this then it is easy for cryptic comments such as that to be misconstrued.

 

afanof that is why i posted it.

 

Did i not explain why i made that comment above, or did some of the alleged reasonable adults not understand the reason given?

 

you did which is why i said what i did namely "if that was an incorrect assumption then i apologise"
Try to understand that not everything i say is a personal attack on you or anyone else and when i feel i have made an error in something i have presumed i will most often acknowledge that fact.

 

I didn't take it that you had made an assumption directly accredited to what I had said, hence my confusion at your post after my explanation.

 

it was more to do with what i put after the net comment.. explaining why i had said what i did...
I saw the net thing as a quote and it astounded me that you or anyone would come out with such a thing.. and wrongly assumed that you were fishing.. i therefore made a statement that if i had misconstrued what you said i was sorry for that.. and pointed out why i had said what i did.