I'm pretty sure a lot of people gave a **** that we conceded that last minute goal and missed a trophy. Are you seriously suggesting the attention seeking idiots crowded on the touchline didn't have an impact that day?
TBF Flores has never mixed things up or made particularly quick subs even before Xmas. He's tried to keep his best team on the pitch coz our squad lacks depth offensively. Only thing I've criticised him for is making subs later than ideal. But coz we were winning then noone cared most people here were happy that we won and were praising Flores achievements. Now people want him sacked. Crazy. It's easy to be an armchair manager. In my younger days I used to criticize managers after a loss or 3 all the time "he shudve done this he shudve done crap manager get rid". I've matured since then able to see the overall picture. Don't think the feeder club model by itself is going to work either Flores or whoever it is next should be allowed to get a big money signing or 2 of his choice. No team battling the top 4 does this model alone and I wouldn't like to manage this way myself. Must be difficult.
I dont agree with much of the individual player criticism, but the rest of the post I think is dead right. I can't believe that these players are as bad as they look and that is why the coach must be responsible. The lack of speed and movement going forward is appalling. That isn't a knee jerk reaction, I have been saying it all season. I am sure the bit in bold could have been cut and pasted from one of my posts from last autumn. Nothing has changed, even in a cup semi final. Then to see QSF's post match reaction, one of mild satisfaction at such an obvious and total failure, is... is... is..., well it's ****ing heartbreaking!
Good post and often best to sleep on it. Firstly, glad you're feeling back to your normal positive self again today Malteser. Like everyone else very disappointed with yesterday as we had a great chance of reaching the final against an average and out of form Palace team. And frustrated with the performance and predictably poor starting team and substitution choices. Palace's strengths are tricky pace on the wings. We ignored this by sticking with 2 slow attacking midfielders on the wings who struggle to defend and get back quickly to help out. It's not really fair to criticise players stuck out of position. Jurado was ok and like most players did some good and bad things. However I can see why people get frustrated when he slowly jogs back when caught out of position. Our strengths are our goalie and strikers. We obviously didn't play to these by dropping the keeper and not giving the strikers any service! When we won at Palace back in Feb we played more of a 4-3-3 and I was hoping for something less predictable this time as well. We've not performed that well in the cup but at least surprised Arsenal with Guedioura starting. Arsenal helped us that day by not playing to our weakness of pace on the wings. This was never going to happen again yesterday. When Capoue went of injured after 30 minutes I thought it was the perfect time to change things around but my heart sank when I saw Suarez coming on. As I've posted before I don't think he's fit and hope he is and ready for next season. He also did some good and bad things. And frustrations with him are the contrast of Troy rushing back to close people down, and him jogging slowly at a distance as the ball is easily played around him. As I've also posted before Anya is unlucky not to have had more game time this year. And I think Prodl and particularly Behrami were unlucky not to play yesterday. However as flat as yesterday and 2016 in the league have been it has been a successful season overall.
'I said a hip bop' etc etc! Does the macaroni still taste like wood? Some very sensible reflections over the last few pages.After the first goal I said to my friend that what is very hard to take is that was a goal that we scored countless times under GT .Corner, near post flick on,back post tap in/header. Deeply upsetting. Someone mentioned the game at Selhurst and the fact that we doubled up on Zaha. I felt sure we would do this as it is the easiest way to negate their most potent threat. The whole of football knows how Palace set up,if Quique thought Jurado and Abdi were the players to do this then lord help him! The next four matches will be revealing but as many have said,I fear it is already adios to Quique.
Flores is clearly of the mindset that survival was all that matters and this was all just a nice bonus. Against Arsenal, we dropped the league 'survival' fight mentality and went for it. Riding our luck but impressing fans, pundits and players alike in our performance. Yesterday was the complete opposite. This was a game we supposedly sacrificed FIVE WEEKS of league performances for. Behrami and Guedioura strangely left out of the side against a side with similar tactics. All to play Abdi, who is useless as a wide man and his Boy Jurado who runs forward so rarely that when he does, he forgets what to do. Did Flores really think that side would win? Did he care? He didn't seem like he did.
I didn't agree that taking a couple of corners was his salvation or eureka moment, no. I can take corners as well even now and I only played non league. Which Premier League opposition will look at Jurado and think, wow, we better make special provision for this fella. He's world class at getting the ball and cutting inside. Not exactly Mahrez, Albrighton, Bolasie or even Anthony (who scored at West Ham) Macnamee is he? Jurado? As a left sided midfielder? 1:-Lose weight and get really fit and therefore faster. He isn't. Compare photos of him from his time with QSF at Athletico. He's now a lump that needs a decent preseason. The only hope for him. 2: You said it, "He even seems capable of winning the ball" - but he can't and doesn't. The one time he tried he got a YC and then was a liability in any attempt to assist Ake. That gave Zaha the freedom of Wembley and forced others to get involved. Same happened at WBA. So, learn to tackle like Robbo or put yourself between the man and ball like Nyom and Capoue do. 3: Go round the outside and beat a man. Get in behind. Occasionally. Did it only within the first 3 mins at both WBA and Wembley, the cross was poor. Got sussed out immediately that he had no pace and will then always cut inside or check back thereafter. Defenders learn this pretty quick and nullify him. . 4: Today was his 9th shot on target ALL SEASON. He had one at WBA. Most were in the game at home to Swansea eons ago. So, learn to shoot under the bar. 5: Stop hiding and come to show for the ball. So often hugs the touchline behind a marker and passes to him get intercepted as he won't go to the ball. I'll stop here as you get the idea but hey, THIS WAS NOT JURADO'S FAULT we lost. To beat Palace you have to press and close and break their play and we didn't have the will or set up or players to do that yesterday. Why play Jurado at all though - he's a luxury player out of place in a system where QSF clearly wants four Ben Watson/Mario Suarez types in midfield.
I get where you are coming from but us armchair managers and also professional pundits have identified the issue with the team. We predicted the side effect of playing the tactics and side he did and were rewarded with being completely right. We don't know what's goign on behind the scenes and in training of course but time and time again we see a lack of attacking players, a narrow formation and hence we play for a bore draw. When the opposition nick one it then takes until 80 minutes before anything remotely attacking is tried and we've bugger all in the way of forward players on the bench. The fix is simple. Play winger who are natural wingers. Have a forward player on the bench. Bench Jurado. Berghuis, Guediora, Amrabat are not the complete solution, but their options which are not getting the time they deserve. I've got the feeling we have a few players with minimum games clauses.
Went for it against Arsenal? We had 2 shots on goal and they went in. Arsenal missed a hatful. That day was our day. Yesterday wasn't. Palace nearly scored an own goal yesterday on another day that would've gone in and it wouldve been our day. If we were on the end of a 2-1 win noone on here would be criticising the performance they would be hailing how great we have been. Like I keep saying look at the overall season. Agree with team selection questions as I wudve played the same team that beat Arsenal tried by luck with the team that got us through. Have to say too that when you lose the only midfielder who drives forward (Capoue) for most of the match you're gonna be up against it. Fair play to the team for getting it to 1-1 and making a game of it.
No, I'm suggesting that even if we had beaten sheff wed that day, we would still not have won a trophy in our entire history. I was pissed off at the time, but those cups mean **** all
Obviously that comment will be seen as damning with faint praise, but there was one occasion (unfortunately I can't remember when, and it's not likely to have found its way into the late night highlights) when he did win the ball quite cleanly, which even drew some praise from the crowd. The fact it happens so rarely, and more often than not as you said results in a yellow card when the attempt comes to anything, remains a concern, but this is something I feel he can improve on with better fitness.
You and others clearly disagree, but I still consider a Championship title a major trophy, for two reasons: (1) We prove ourselves the best team over 46 games (2) We get promoted to one of the best leagues in the world with all the riches and prestige that comes with it. I wouldn't have considered our 3rd and 4th division titles major trophies, for reason (2), lovely though they were (unfortunately the 1998 title win was just before my time as a supporter). But to have just missed out on making history for me last season, that was pretty gutting.
We've been very lucky with injuries, Bournemouth have had a nightmare with them. If they didn't have the injury problems I reckon they'd have finished above us.
That's an interesting thought, Meister. It would explain a lot. Difficult to imagine a hard-nosed guy like Gino going down that route, but maybe he was so desperate to get in some big names not too sure about the Watford "project" that he caved in to it. Maybe WDS or the Wobby could follow this up....
More annoyed about the performance than the result.. again. We have had no attacking threat since Christmas. I am bored of watching my team... and if its as mind numbingly dull as this next season, I wont be renewing my season ticket for the season after. I am sure it wont be, i am sure we will sign some more attacking players but thats just how I feel unfortunately!
Capoue was having his best game for a long time. When he went off I thought there were three options: Bring on Gueds who would get forward and help take the game to Palace. Bring on Behrami so we could press Palace like they were pressing us. Bring on Anya so we had some pace out wide and could protect Nyom, moving Abdi inside where he would be more effective. Instead we bring on an elegant but languid defensive midfielder who constantly gets caught in possess cos he's too slow for top-flight English football.
dont get me wrong, I was pissed off at the time and it took the shine off our promotion a bit. But how can you begin to compare the championship title to the fa cup or the league cup, when you arent competing against any of the top clubs? You think if we had won that we would be on equal bragging rights with luton with their league cup? Of course not.
I think we have achieved much over the past 18 months and have a lot to be grateful for... BUT The feeling nags away at you that it could have been so much more. I think, contrary to the way the media like to portray us as a whacky club where nothing stands still for long, we are incredibly lucky to have an owner who isn't afraid to make big decisions for the best of the club. Few, if any other clubs, would have ditched McKinlay after 2 games, or dispensed with a Head Coach who actually won promotion out of the Championship. If Gino's thinking right now is 'done well but could do even better', then so be it. (and thanks Maroom for your nice words)
Yeah, I'm sure the bored-out-of-his-mind looking Gino Pozzo was thinking of the overall season yesterday instead of blowing the chance to win a trophy for the first time in our existence.
As I sit here watching Morning TV reflecting on yesterday, I feel less antipathy than I thought I would have towards Palace. We didn't perform. They didn't either really. It was a really poor game, like a couple of old properties that need a good bit of renovation over the summer. I can only imagine the commentators wishing they had got the other semi final than this dull affair. A couple of goals at the end probably did little to paint over the cracks in the wall that would make the neutral switch over to something more exciting like Songs Of Praise I imagine. I think they have hit a bit of form at the right time and before the game I think deep down I knew that the odds were stacked against us if they scored first, and they scored first so early. Our front line is now looking tired and toothless. Our defence is looking tired and more leaky than a badly felted roof of late. The whole team looks weary and in need of redecoration. Perhaps its the lack of strength in depth (or the reluctance of QSF to use the depth of the squad) that has finally hit us. It was a shame but I did enjoy the day out as a whole. Always like going to Wembley and for a few brief minutes, we had something to really shout and cheer about. Just a shame it was so short lived.
Was anyone on here the bloke in block 34 around us who, by the end of the match, had simply reverted to shouting "ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK" relentlessly?! In the cold light of day, I'm not sure how I feel re Flores and this team. On the one hand, at the beginning of the season I'd have bitten your hand off for survival and an FA Cup Semi Final. But the deterioration from the first half of the season to the second is a worry. I don't think there's much point about arguing about individuals such as Jurado as, to me, it seems a problem that crosses the whole team. I was interested to hear what Mr HH made of the match as he was watching it on TV at home, and obviously isn't as emotionally invested in the team as I am, which gives you a different perspective. He texted me during the match to say "your boys look tired and slow" and said after the game that he couldn't understand why we played in the manner we did or what had happened to some of our players during the course of the season. Nor can I. And that's what worries me.
They sung for about 5mins after the first goal and the same for the second.And when it was 1-1 can't remember them singing much.All the upper tiers joined in with bounce in a minute from Watford fans,was 100% better than last time we were there.
I was wondering if I was the only one who thought that, and this is not meant to be sour grapes on my part, but if this was considered by Palace fans to be their best performance of the season, they must have been awful to watch during that long winless run. They only looked pacey because we were so pedestrian, and apart from their goals only created one meaningful opportunity I can recall and were hardly flawless in retaining possession. I don't blame them for being confident that they can finally avenge their 1990 defeat in the final, but I honestly think the Mancs have the cup handed to them on a silver platter as they won't underestimate Palace like Man City did with Wigan in 2013.
You have given Jurado MOTM every game he has played.He is a complete waste of money and offers nothing and proved it again yesterday.
You don't even need to have played football to know that's a huge contradiction. A modicum of common sense is needed that's all. I was meaning for a bit of auto-erotic asphyxiation, rather than killing themselves
Absolutely gutted to miss this golden opportunity but like others have mentioned there was almost a sense of inevitability once the match got going. Nothing Pants could have done nor do I think Gomes being in goal would have altered the outcome. Ake didn’t have his best game but I think this may have been due to being pinned back having to deal with Zaha and also reluctant to fly forward past Jurado for fear of their pace on the counter. The other 3 at the back were solid without being spectacular, there was one moment in the second half where they looked in and out of nowhere nyom managed to get a block from tracking to the other side of the box. Midfield wise thought Abdi’s inclusion was bizarre and thought he had a terrible afternoon, unfortunately think his Watford race may well be run. For me he’s not influencing games enough anymore. (without getting in to the being played out of position debate) Watson was his usual self, gutted for Capoue but thought Suarez looked very good when he came on if he had a bit more urgency could be a real player for us. My mind swings with Jurado so much, a moment of brilliance followed by something laughable. He frustrates more than he excites seemingly, for example second half getting late on, he was on the right side of the box so his strong foot it was getting desperate a lot of bodies in the box and het just ballooned it out of play. Gueds was decent when he came on, I like his directness. The front two were ok, felt sorry for Deeney in the fact that he battled chased and generally tried to up the urgency but had little support. I think Deeney has shown he could forge a great partnership with most premier league strikers through his workrate and selvelessness, a Vardy type striker as a second option to Iggy would be ideal to stretch those games where the other team are crowding both strikers out. Ighalo I am just not sure what to say about his performance he battled a bit harder than he has recently but again largely anonymous, his first touch is often so poor as well which sometimes works to his advantage as he is a clever player but often gives the defenders a chance to surround him and when a chance did finally fall his way he ballooned it well over. The subs were odd, I think it was clear in the first half that Anya running at them would make sense so not sure why he bought him on to restrict him to running from RB. I think we’d have been better off with him in front of Ake so both with pace and defensive responsibility in mind and perhaps Jurado/Gueds/Behrami the other side. Whilst Hindsight is wonderful I don’t think it would take too much to see Palace pacey wingers are their biggest threat so Abdi/Jurado covering the full backs was a recipe for failure from the start, Bolasie and Zaha must have been delighted when they saw the teams. I would like QSF to stay personally as I think the season as a whole has been a success but he does leave you baffled by something almost every match, we showed against Liverpool we could be exciting and score goals against a good side, it’s hard to understand why there haven’t been any such performances since. We need to be careful what we wish for with the manager and I’m sure the Pozzos will make the right call. I was in the upper tier and was disappointment by the amount of fans that thought it ok to stand directly in front of people sitting and abuse the stewards when asked to sit down or move to the back of the stand if they wish to persistently stand. There were also plenty shouting the odds about people sitting/not standing. Everyone is entitled to go to a match and watch how they wish without being abused for it, if you want to stand sing etc. then fine get a ticket for an area where you know it’ll be like this. It makes you no more or less of a fan if you stand and watch or sit. I personally enjoy both been to away games and stood and sung the whole time etc but also plenty where I’m happy to sit and observe quietly. In general everyone is courteous but inevitably those more vocal always draw the eye and perhaps skew perception, it shouldn’t amaze me but still does how quick some are to abuse someone just because they are a steward. Disappointing day which hopefully we can pick up from this and finish the season well.
Regarding 'tired and slow',this can be a sign of anxiety.If so that is not a bad thing,we all need to be nervous to perform. However the way to control this in any moving ball sport is to have a high tempo. Apart from a ten minute spell before and after we scored,we did not. In tennis we have a plan to win-consistency ( over and in ) in football this must be ball retention. Then control space-move the ball into space,then control time-do it sooner. Fourthly play to your strengths,then expose opponent's weakness. We rarely achieved the first yesterday so the rest are academic.
