Are You Anti-vaccine?

Thank you. You have said succinctly what Mrs Ilkley Orn took some time to explain to me. She used to work in drugs development.

 

I've had 4 Covid vaccinations now and also get the flu jab due to being asthmatic. The first one I had I felt absolutely terrible for about 24 hours, the rest I've had no side affects at all. Did have a belter of a cold in December, not Covid. I have the vaccination because I deem it safe but more to do with seeing my 88 year old mother. She had Covid about a year ago and really suffered so it makes sense for me to have it.
Each to their own I suppose. There is no right or wrong answer

 

Absolutely. And access to poor quality sources is free, whilst increasingly access to quality journalism is hidden behind a paywall.

 

Definitely.
For example:
The probability of matching all six numbers to win the lottery jackpot is about one in 45m. [ https://www.national-lottery.com/lotto/odds-and-prizes]
A roulette wheel with 45m pockets, each 30mm wide would have a circumference of 1350km.
That's a roulette wheel 430km (nearly 270 miles) in diameter.

Even a 1 in 1000 probability is equivalent to a roulette wheel about 30m in circumference, or about 10m in diameter.

 

My views on this are a bit fluid and could change. I've had 3 jabs I think now but not going to have a 4th for the foreseeable. I'm not anti vax in anyway shape or form - I believe the vaccines were necessary early on and helped save countless lives. But there is a proven risk that the vaccines can cause heart issues (although catching covid can also cause heart problems - at a larger rate than the vaccine so some protection against this early on was necessary) although there were always likely to be some negative side effect cases with the sheer amount of people getting the vaccine. I saw a tweet the other day where someone said "even 1 death from the vaccine is too many" which is an utterly stupid way of looking at things. But anyway, with the variants now generally being weaker than the original virus and the vaccine not stopping transmission etc I don't really see the point in getting the 4th booster - but this could change if a strong variant were suddenly be rampant

 

IIRC the first C19 vax was 'based upon' a SARS vax that had been thoroughly 'normally' tested so this wasn't really a gamble or cutting corners. It wasn't as though someone had invented something from scratch. The parallel assessment was something fairly unique for a UK/EU pharmaceutical but it's a very common practice in the US.

 

Also it normally takes years to gather sufficient scientific data for treatment vs control. For Covid, the virus was spreading so quickly and people were so keen to get the jab that the intervention/ counterfactual evidence was rapid and huge.

The data for lives saved by the vaccine almost certainly underrepresents, rather than overrepresents, lives saved, because the counterfactual was either overwhelmed hospitals and hospital staff (leading to greater excess death rate) - or prolonged lockdowns and delays to physical and mental treatment (from which excess deaths is still unknown, but I think will be significant).

 

Clonical trials are a pain in the butt.

 

But they make us the best of the best:

 

This really is a frustrating feature of the current times.

 

Social media is the worst thing to happen in the last 50 years.

 

Summed up my thoughts perfectly!

One thing that would frustrate the hell out of me is those militant anti vax types. Their absolute blind refusal to listen to advice from advisors/scientists who’ve spent years in education learning about this sh*t and the who’ve spent their whole career devoted to it.

Their whole later education and career practically built up to the moment covid hit.

We have one of these types at work, bit of an oddball and loves a conspiracy theory. Flat out refused to “believe in covid”, it’s not the easter bunny you d*ck!

Height of covid, went off work with a bad cold but refused to be tested or say it’s covid, thus it went on his absence record and ended up with a warning being issued. Moron.

 

Yes are not wrong.

I use Twitter. The biggest problem with Twitter is it creates "bubbles" of people that only interact with people that share their view.

I work hard to avoid that so that I get to see other views to my own and it is revealing.

The extreme "anti vaxxers" feed off anything that confirms their bias, whatever the source

The latest I saw was a video being shared supposedly showing a Pfzer "executive" saying that they are developing new Covid strains themselves. Of course this was totally debunked but it doesn't stop it being circulated amongst the anti-vaxxers.

The kicker is that they are up in arms that the main stream media haven't run with this "exposé". To them, it is proof that the MSN is part of the "deep state" conspiracy that is controlling us (the very language Neil Oliver uses).

There is absolutely no way of convincing them of the facts and the truth when they live in there own Twitter world with it's own "facts" and it's own "truth".

 

Unfortunately so many people believe only what they want to believe. I had a very similar thing yesterday with a mate in a Whatssap group, let’s just say he’s a bit right wing. He sent a tweet saying “funny how this wasn’t reported in the news” the tweet was blocked and I couldn’t be bothered to login and see what it was, but from the comments I can only assume it was some black people beating up some white people. Absolutely no context to the video at all, but to him it’s ‘evidence’ of something he wants to believe and supports his narrative the media is completely left wing. It’s very sad really.

 

But it's the reinforcement of the false narrative that does me:

THEM: "I've done the research and..."
ME: "What in the lab or just comparative review of the literature with a meta analysis of the published stats?"
THEM: "No. On the internet..."

And the "...internet...." means twitter, FB, Insta...

 

My daughter is a junior hospital doctor. She saw this all first hand. I admire her professionalism when faced with this, but as has been said:

“The truth has no defence against a fool determined to believe a lie.” Mark Twain

“You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.” Doctor Who (1977)

 

Rigorous interrogation of the validity of the source(s) upon which an apparently cogent hypothesis is based is so….passé and elitist, don’t you know.

 

The government doesn't want you to know that the vaccine has got dormant activants which are catalysed by 5g cell towers.

As someone who hasn't had the poison jab, I'm making a fortune selling my unvaxxed jizz to red pilled Conservative women whose soy boy husbands have had their swimmers neutralised by the toxic injection.

 

there is enough versions of moog on this site let alone running about in real life

 

Possibly, as the data clearly show your 'outcome' (infection/death rates) were clearly linked by the amount of melanin in your skin...

 

It's clear that in addition to killing lots of people, Covid is also racist.

 

Got both the two stage MRNA vaccine as soon as I was eligible for it and two boosters. The shot made me sleepy for a couple days. I am 56 now and got the shingles vaccine about a year later which tore me up. I was out of it for about 24 hours on a day the Mrs was away for work. I had to call her to doordash some chicken soup for me. Lol.

Anyway, shortly the first Covid shot, I developed “frozen shoulder”. I know we share a set of separate languages so not sure if you use that term but it is formally called ‘adhesive capsulitis’, and it is a very painful shoulder malady that no one really understands why it happens and what to do to rest it or prevent and it usually just goes away after 12-18 months. At its peak, it produced pain worse than the bone breaks and tooth issues I’ve had in the past. Comically the worst one was when I tore a strip of bog roll off in haste before a sneeze, that quick tear move made me sit down and cry for second, then made me start laughing at myself. It was a weird pandemic. Anyway, I’m at the 30th month of frozen shoulder and w though the peak pain is long gone, I still have reduced range of motion and it is always sore and tight. Correlation ain’t causation but it happened in such close proximity time wise that I definitely wonder about the jab’s impact on the surrounding tissue. I finally caught the ‘vid in July last year and it was mild, thanks to the shots and the strain itself calming the f*** down.

 

Interesting story. Glad the shoulder is improving.

I’ve read that frozen shoulder starts with underlying damage or underlying condition (interested because I previously broke a shoulder). How do you think the jab may have precipitated it? What would be the mechanism?

 

I really don’t know how or why. Or even if. Wish I knew. It seemed to happen around the same time…though I understand that correlation isn’t the same as causation.