Mass Shooting in Las Vegas

Somewhat ironically at a country music festival. I wonder how the NRA or Trump are going to justify their gun control policy after this.

 

A law enforcement source told CBS News a search warrant has been issued for the home of the shooter, identified as Stephen Paddock, of Mesquite, Nevada.

Police there told CBS News the suspect was white, in his 60s, had been living in a retirement community and hadn’t had any run-ins with law enforcement. He wasn’t a veteran, Mesquite police added.

 

It's very hard to understand pro-gun America. It just seems obvious that automatic weapons have no place in private hands, let alone the general level of handgun ownership.

Horrific incident.

 

If this isn't a political subject, I don't know what is. And to move it to 'tittle tattle' is totally inappropriate.

Move it back.

 

Thoughts and prayers have been dispatched.

 

This. Horrific death toll produced by one man with an automatic weapon.

 

No doubt some pro-gun pillock will say this never happened and was a government led hoax like Sandy Hook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting_conspiracy_theories

I know they're saying this guy was shooting from a 32nd floor window, so not much anyone could necessarily do in this case but you never ever read about a shooting spree ended because the shooter was shot by a gun-toting member of the public. They all run off to their caves and then blurt out in the press and social media saying how they've doubled their arsenal in the last 24 hours and how they'd take out a shooter if they were there.

 

Out of respect for the situation and victims I'm not sure that keeping it in the slanging match section which most people avoid is prudent.

A thread on US gun law is probably justified setting up there when the dust settles a little.

 

The video from within the crowd is truly terrifying, you can hear the shooting going on all around the person recording.

How anyone can support the ownership of guns is beyond me.

I also see the twitter bots and fake accounts are in full swing once again.

 

I'm not too sure we have any American NRA members on here?

 

Apparently the weapon used was a fully automatic rifle which is already outlawed in the US.

If you've seen the video on Sky News, he empties the first clip of about 50 rounds and then takes an age to reload, I'm no soldier or expert in weapons but it sounds like a light machine gun.

It's terrifying.

 

The usual answer is that if the people he was shooting at were also armed, somebody would have taken him out before so many were killed. If the bad guys have guns, the good guys need them too.

Doesn't matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, this line always seems to hold. Though I do admit that disarming a population already armed to the teeth is much more difficult than stopping the proliferation of weapons in a less gun-happy country.

 

It could be argued that everything is political but while atrocities like this are barely over i'd agree it's best not to place the discussion in a area which will only lead to argument.
Let someone start a gun law topic in the political section later if they have to.



Those poor people.

 

There is no obvious or easy solution - but why people in America really think having guns legal helps them I don't know. So awful for the victims and their families

 

Horrific. I've softened my stance on gun ownership a little since hearing arguments from Black Americans who advocate gun ownership in a country which only granted them equality less than 50 years ago, but the guns they are in favour of are not the guns used in mass shootings. Military grade hardware (even semi-auto rifles with large magazines) has no place in civilian hands in a supposedly first world country. Seeing 'militia' members open carrying M4s is absolutely bonkers.

And by the way, a pre-meditated mass shooting is designed to cause terror. So he's a terrorist. This lone wolf ******** in media reporting is complete rubbish.

 

I believe that law enforcement announced it was a "lone wolf" style attack first, so of course the media will follow suit.

Perhaps the term "lone wolf" is in itself an awkward term.. but the way i would see it is that if someone carries out such an attack without an obvious political and/or religious motivation, then the term is the correct one to use.

 

Terrorism tends to be used to describe these events where there is some kind of "movement". A lone wolf terrorist probably best fits this description

 

based on...

 

There is zero evidence that he had/did not have a political motive, but plenty of evidence that he sought to cause terror. So why do the initial media reports not report him as a terrorist? Could it, perhaps, have something to do with the colour of his skin?

 

10 rifles in his hotel room say Vegas cops. Along with all the equipment to make the festival a crap shoot.

10 rifles.

 

Because the initial reports went with what the authorities announced?
The "evidence" is that the authorities announced it that way. Maybe they make that judgement on whether or not he was known to have had past association with any political group or was on the radar as having extremist views. As they have found none they called him a lone wolf.

As long as i can remember we have always associated the words terror or terrorist with attacks that have had either a political and/or religious motivation (Timothy Mcveigh was for instance classed as a (white) terrorist.. there's been plenty more)
Now it seems we have to call every individual a terrorist in case we upset someone from a perceived minority. That seems nuts to me.

'Causing terror' does not have the same implication as being a terrorist.. or at least it hasnt in the past.

 

Americans have a different mindset to us regarding personal defence. I've tried many times to understand it, I've had many conversations on an American tech site I use, I'm always the bad guy. They will never change.

 

State law in Nevada defines terrorism as: 'any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population'.

The police were wrong. It was designed to create terror so it's an act of terrorism. The semantics of 'terrorism' have been distorted by the irrational fear of jihadists.

 

Or the fact that they know very little about him and have only just served a search warrant on his house.

 

I'm not sure what the technicality of the terms "lone wolf" or "terrorist" actually are, but does it matter? We all know what those words mean, we don't need to argue the toss on here.

It is a terrible event, whatever we call him. If the police aren't technically correct immediately, who cares.

It is a nightmare that I dreaded would happen - an automatic weapon being fired into a crowd of people who can't run away due the mass of bodies.

Horrendous.

 

A politically correct re-writing of what we have always thought.
The semantics of 'terrorism' goes back way further than modern jihadists. It was the same way during the troubles in Northern Ireland. That's where most people of my generation would have developed their interpretation of terrorism.

Now if what you are saying is that we have to relearn how to define the term, then fine.
But suggesting we are racist because of how we interpret what we call terrorism is a touch out of line imo.


PS There's not much 'irrational' about the fear of jihadists!

 

Firstly what has happened is horrific. My wife's family live in Vegas so this has shaken my family up and has hit close to home. Thankfully none of her family were at the concert. Glad they got him but such a sad day for many families across the USA.

On the gun debate, I live in New York, one of the most, if not the most, liberal and democratic State in the US. I have lived in America for nearly 8 years, been to over 30 states and lived in 3. They will never change their policy on guns or gun control.

Until you live here, you have no idea how much the majority of the population like having the right to bear arms. Liberal or republican it doesn't matter. Guns are not more favoured by Republicans, the media just portray it to be that way as they interview someone from Alabama with two teeth and trump t-shirt. Guns are favoured by most Americans period.

People are beating a dead horse thinking it will change. It won't. Guns mean to much to people over here. I've only been hear nearly 8 years and after about year 4 I was asking my wife to get a gun. It is cultural and that won't change.

 

Not sure if it's really that important but in my 15 years there I didn't get the impression that 'most Americans' or the 'majority of the population' favour guns at all. I would say without doubt the most don't.

 

Yep. People forget that our culture and their culture is very different. The yanks are completely different from us in loads of ways (not surprising, considering how absolutely massive the place is). We are far more similar to the foreigns over on the continent than we are to that lot, though I suspect a lot of people in this country feel more kinship with americans. The fact they speak english is what confuses people I suppose. And the fact their **** celebrity culture is forced down our throats.

Best just let them get on with it, it's none of our business.

 

he seems to have acted alone and sought to cause terror.......

 

It does matter and it matters to people like me because "terrorism" and "Islam" now seem to go hand in hand. Or "terrorist" and "coloured guy with a beard". I'm sick of the word terrorist defining me and people like me, it needs to be used correctly.

There's not a single reason why this shouldn't be reported as a "terror attack".

A crazy van in Westminster is a terror attack yet shooting 50 people isn't? ********.