[SOLD] Luis Suarez

I think the debate on whether its good money, or crap money has been done to death - Lets be honest, none of us know. If we did, we wouldn't be on these forums, we'd be on a nice boat in the med enjoying life having won the lottery multiple times.

I think the more interesting debate is, if it's true, why didn't Vlad rate him? I know Vlad has been here all of 5 minutes (or the equivalent of 1 year in Watford manager terms) but I don't know of much he's done wrong in his early stages.

 

I’m not really sure how that amounts to Joao Pedro being a ‘way better’ prospect which is the point I was debating. You can easily turn the tables on that argument by saying strikers mature in their 20’s so Suarez being 23 and having more career goals is in a better place to help us now.

We are digressing anyway. The fee for Suarez is cheap. I’m happy to debate that all day long.

 

Europa League qualifying Granada of La Liga.

 

I think Pozzo's dealings are at best mixed bag - and over the last 2 and a bit years, they have been more on the bad side than the good. That is why I have a lot less faith in Gino than some of the COGs on here.

I'm more than happy to say when I think he has done good business like with JP and Ngakia, just like I have said I thought the Pussetto and Dawson transfers were bad business.

In my opinion this falls into the latter - that is all there is to it.

 

And why have we only given a years contract to a man who can wield so much say over exciting prospects...

 

Can somebody please tell me what the hell COGs means?

 

How do we know Vlad didn't rate him? He spoke positively about him in his press conference, just like Clevs and Quina did.

I suspect the decision was out of his hands. We loaned out Amrabat despite Silva asking the board not to.

 

So about £90m spent there. Think it's fair to take away Pussetto, Penaranda and Success as that's basically moving money from one pocket to another. So down to £60m.

According to transfermarkt we sold:

Amrabat: £7.5m
Kums: £5m
Oulare: £3m
Suarez: Undisclosed (No more than £2m I'd say, although it was to China...)

So we'll say £45m spunked away and we're left with:

Championship-level Dawson
Championship-level Gray
No-hoper Sinclair
Hit-or-miss Penaranda
Hit-or-miss (probably miss) Success
Potential no-hoper Stuparevic
Championship-level(maybe not suited) Pussetto

A few stinkers and probably a couple we've forgotten but not bad, really. I think that would compare quite favourably to Bournemouth, for example.

 

This is a good point. I can only assume its due to trying to mix a new approach of letting the manager manage for once, whilst also trying to balance the books. I think we'll know a bit more once this windows slammed shut and shattered.

 

Just because we are paying another Pozzo owned club doesn't mean we aren't paying.

It still goes off our books and into theirs.

I accept all clubs make mistakes, but why are people so reluctant to admit that this might possibly be such a mistake. My list above shows how many he does make.

 

I did trust them implicitly, but over the past 18 months they have made so many bad decisions that it has eroded my confidence in them. For now, I'd like to get that trust back but I need to see signs they have got a handle on it.

Just because they knew what they were doing in the past, doesn't mean they'll always will. Who knows, maybe the order at the top has changed. Maybe Giampaolo Pozzo was pulling the strings until 18 months ago?

There just seems to be a contrast between the shrewd, ahead of the game, management we used to see to the arrogant, mistaken ridden decisions we're seeing now.

This is why trust has to be won back, but I'm only talking about my own views here.

 

Our book and the Pozzos book is near enough the same thing. While it's on "our book", as our owners it might as well be on their book as well.

If the Pozzos have say a fund of £100mil which they've sidelined for football investments, it makes little difference in reality overall whether it's in Udinese, Watford, or held by them elsewhere., as long as they move their money around in as efficient a manner as possible.

It's not that difficult a concept.

If you own two houses with four cars and two boats in them, and you move one car from one of the houses to the other house in exchange for a boat, you still have two houses, two boats, and four cars.

 

From parts I read Suarez wasn't part of the main group in training, he was put in with the likes of Capoue. Training is a lot more focused under Vlad than previous managers and I can only assume Vlad wasn't getting the commitment from Luis who's agent had been tweeting a lot since the start of preseason. Personally think something developed after the Scunthorpe match and it was clear his head wasn't with the squad.

 

Fair points which I can at least partially relate to. But I think that people are so hurt by relegation that some perspective has been lost and there is a trend to try to make everything that the Pozzos do fit a negative narrative which is not necessarily true.

 

Do you think Vlad doesn't rate Capoue either despite him being our best midfielder.

The "not in the group" players are those with transfer speculation - it is nothing to do with whether Vlad rates them otherwise surely Glenn Murray wouldn't be in the group.

 

Cost of Goods Sold.

Don't know why barely1egal is using it as an insult though, considering he's also having a try at being an accountant (though not very well).

 

Haven't we sold some of these?

 

Fair enough. Although I think there is more to it.

 

Top sides were scouting him. Would you really class Granada as one of those?

 

What's happened with Stuparevic?

Bournemouth have had a right mix bag:

Solanke - 19m
Danjuma - 16m
Lerma - 25m
Billing - 14m
Ibe - 16m

Worth noting they don't appear to have spent anything this season, but have recouped nearly 80m

 

Maybe some do that, but I judge things on their own merits. Total them up, then come to a conclusion.

For example, the signing of Ngakia was inspired and I still cannot believe they pulled that off. Huge credit to the management for that one, but then they spoil it by signing players like Murray, Stevenson and Sierralta. I find that baffling. Selling off players well under value like Doucoure, Estupinan and now Suarez.

But a lot of credit will go to them if they hold on to Sarr. If they sell him too though, then it will be far too many outgoings, for low values. We'll probably have got the debt down, but will have very little to show for it on the pitch and a promotion push will be laughable.

So, for me, it's all up in the air. If they truly give Ivic the tools to go for promotion, then all is forgiven. It's in their gift to do this, but I won't be mugged off with their platitudes of giving it a go, if they sell everyone and go cheap.

 

He is ***** - not good enough for the Serbian league. We tried to send him to Udinese and they didn't want him.


I think measuring ourselves against the club with one of the worst transfer policies in the PL over the 5 years we were there is not really the yardstick we want to be comparing ourselves to. I think their wage situation is making it even more difficult - for all the issues we are having, their wage bill was significantly higher than ours.

Danjuma looks a good player though - don't really understand why he didn't play more last season.

 

How many times do we need to go through this - Stevenson was not bought for the first team, he was bought as U23 squad filler.

 

No. He's in that group due to the transfer request. The point i'm making is he's segregated players who want to be here, and show commitment compared to those who don't want to be here or aren't in his plans. The fact Luis was in there would suggest he doesn't want to be here. It also sounds like Vlad does have a say in player sales, so would presumably give his blessing to this one.

 

Yes.....and he's crap....even as a U23 squad filler. Why sign him? He's never going to get anywhere close to where we want to be. Even if we stay in the Championship for years, he'll still not get close. Even League One Charlton thought he was not good enough. It's just a very strange decision to sign him.

 

Murray is the one I don't understand. Makes no sense unless they were utterly convinced TD was leaving. But, if so, why commit before TD committed ? He's also looked **** so wouldn't even be able to cover TD's target man role.

 

Bournemouth are worth comparing against - They went up and came down at the same time we did. It's worth noting the player income they've received. Presume that's a measure of roughly how much we need to sell as well - But need to bear in mind wages - Wilson was apparently on 100k a week. I've lost track of it, but aren't we on between 50-60m sales at the moment? That would indicate a circa 20-30m to make up if we're on par with Bournemouth.

 

We're not on a par with Muff. They have far richer owners who could just ride this one out and have a full crack at promotion. However he looks to be wanting to divest which is good news....

 

"Hit or miss" for Penaranda is generous.

 

Muff bought sone right junk over the last 5 years... like us

 

Me keep checking to see if anything official has been said yet.

 

No I get that - I just mean that being better than Bournemouth should not be considered a measure of success.

Their wage bill was quite considerably higher than ours, so I'd imagine they need to sell more, although not sure how much of that was tied up in Ake, Wilson, Fraser etc though.

 

Murray has calibre, but I think he's got to the age where he just can't run around anymore at the pace he needs to be at. The modern game is for quick forwards or big target men. He's not either of these. Sharp in the box and a good finisher clearly, but it's of no use to us if he cannot contribute in the build up play and is a yard short.

It's like they didn't check out his current condition. I think they signed him on reputation only, and this is a concern. Now it looks as though we've got another player who will be taking a wage but will contribute nothing. They've got to stop making these ridiculous signings, especially at a time when every £1 matters.

 

The facts speak for themselves - they finished higher in La Liga than we ever have in the PL and they qualified for Europe. And reached the cup final. They are knocking on the door of being the best outside the established big clubs.

And it’s known that clubs are struggling to spend money - it seems odd to me to defend the sale saying we need the money, but simultaneously saying those big clubs who wanted him didn’t buy him because he’s not good enough, not because they didn’t have the money? It’s very selective.

 

It is a shame that Suarez has gone. He looked the real deal, but he didn't want to play for us, so he is off.
Wilmot and TDB will not do much for us. Wilmot is lightweight and is beaten far too easily.. TDB will hardly get a game.
We haven't been able to offload the deadwood and we have massive debts to pay off.
Keeping Sarr would be good and would lift the spirits of the fans.