Here's the club Twitter with some player updates: https://twitter.com/WatfordFC/status/1304476047128383488 Suarez, Dawson, Penaranda were listed as ill. We're currently in the middle of a global pandemic. Is it really that unlikely they might be ill and were kept away from the squad as a precaution? I'd argue no, especially given that two of the three players aren't hot property. Zero reason to lie about them being sick. Estupinan and Perica listed a minor knocks. Hardly difficult to believe off the back of a very truncated preseason. Same with Dele-Bashiru's thigh, who could well have injured it in the Spurs game. The players we really have a question mark over are Deeney, Capoue, Sarr, Welbeck and Pereyra. We know Deeney, Welbeck and Pereyra want out, so while the window is open why risk injuring them and why use them in the squad if we think they're going to be sold? That makes little sense to me. Capoue is probably leaving given the rumours, even though he hasn't expressly asked to leave. Given his age and likely high wages it's possible the club thinks it makes more sense not to include him if they think he's likely to leave. As for Sarr, he probably has had too little time with the squad since returning from quarantine, and Ivic has likely seen virtually nothing of him yet. The rest are mostly long term injuries, or were just signed and have barely trained yet. Fact of the matter is that unless we have evidence that the club was lying in their squad update (which we don't) we should probably apply Occam's Razor. It's far more likely that they were telling the truth, especially since they didn't bother to make excuses for Deeney or Pereyra (who are known to want to leave and aren't believed to be carrying injuries). If they were lying it will almost inevitably come out anyway, which makes it a pointless exercise.
Foster 6- Didn't have much to do, made some half-decent stops, but generally looked commanding when they did put balls into the box Ngakia 5- Not his best game, looked a bit nervy, but not disastrous by any means, and I expect he'll improve Wilmot 7- Generally very commanding, and so calm on the ball, a breath of fresh air. Did get caught out one or two times, but no bother here tonight Cathcart 7- A bit shaky in the first half, but looked unflappable in the second. Nicely worked routine for his goal, if he could pop up with a few of those this season we'll be happy! Kabasele 7- Ditto Cathcart really, definitely one of his better games for us. If Dawson is to leave, maybe he'll have a more prominent role for us, which might not be such a bad thing on that evidence Kiko 6- Fairly quiet game, but did well enough on his weak side. Didn't do much wrong, but I definitely hope we won't have to keep picking him on the left all season Cleverley 6- Middling game, not that good, but not bad. Hasn't lost his legs yet which is what I feared at points last season Quina 5- The one 'disappointment' from this game, not his day today, but I still expect big things from him this season Chalobah 6- Sometimes a bit sloppy in possession, but did look mentally up for it again, which is a positive Sema 6- Very bright early on, faded as the game wore on, but enough signs there that he could be a real asset in the Championship Pedro 7- Looked really bright, shame that the others couldn't quite link up with him, but with the right people with him this season...wow, we have some player on our hands Murray 6- Did a job, probably won more fouls than touches, but that's no bad thing as we look to close out matches this season! A weird one, he spoke of playing more regularly, but that's definitely not what I envisage his role being this season. I'd like him to play up front against Oxford
And if you only look for positives and ignore the obvious negatives, I dare say the same in reverse is applicable. And that’s the attitude that has left us in this mess.
Well if it were Covid, obviously there would have been far more serious repercussions. I don't expect Penaranda will have attracted attention, same with Dele-Bashiru (although a loan move away might not be the worst thing for all parties) and Perica clearly ain't leaving, but it's not impossible that Dawson reacted more strongly in response to the supposed interest than Estupinan, apparently he reacted similarly at West Brom, and Estupinan doesn't seem like the kind who would REALLY kick off even if his head has been turned
Zero reason to lie beyond it being the easiest for them to give to get out of playing, as likely advised by their agent?
Let’s face facts, both good and bad. Good: A positive style of play and far more youthful verve about things. Far more players willing to get on the ball and try and create - success percentage in that will only increase with familiarity. Age profile of the side is massively lowered and you’d hope the ego level has dropped too. The style we played could be so impressive IF we can introduce some of those sitting out into it. Estupinan, Suarez and Sarr obviously would look good...Estupinan especially. Biggest positive was Joao Pedro - only one game, but we have a potential star on our hands. I pray we don’t waste it. Bad: The obvious - those missing. Illness and little knocks are the easiest excuses to sit out as they are largely undetectable...agents will know that. I beg they are being truthful but I really have my doubts now that Estupinan or Suarez will be here. We need some of those missing 17 to come in, make no mistake. The depth tonight was beyond shocking and results will get harder, not easier. Biggest worry is the defence yet again - the gaps between the CB’s are huge despite there being three of them and the gap between defence and midfield is huge too - strikers and CAM’s will have acres of space. We just don’t have savvy CB’s and it must be addressed now - continuing to think we have competent CB’s at this level will cost us. Before tonight I thought they may be adequate - I was wrong. Kabasele was decent - but let’s face it, that’s not something we can rely on. Murray just chased shadows after coming on so I hope that’s not a sign either but far too soon to say. Both positive and negative? Quina. Was trying the right things. But my god was he bad at them tonight!
You may have a point regarding the ilness, in normal times I would think what a load of lies but during a global pandemic who knows. Deeney has been doing intensive rehab training after a minor knee op and he hasn't been training with the squad I don't think he his expected to fit until the middle of the month.
Well they are really. If the player would ideally like a move and the agent tells him to say he’s ill, the club aren’t going to go against that are they?
This paper saying in article on bottom left that Watford have agreed a price with Villareal for Pervis . Up to player to agree terms now https://www.elperiodicomediterraneo...da-dia_1312883.html?__twitter_impression=true
If the player is lying and club reports out on that, it's not the club's fault. That's on the player. At some point the club has to take what the player says seriously; for example, if Penaranda was lying about being exposed to Covid-19, they can't just tell him to come in. They have to take it seriously. We have no evidence either scenario (club lying or player lying) has happened at this point, of course.
Of course it’s not the clubs fault if the players have suddenly started playing silly bu*gers. But I’d like to think the club have got a handle on things finally across this summer and have a good sense of the mentality of the players they are counting on this season. If we are getting to game day 1 and this is happening, warning signs are already going off massively that they have no idea once more what’s going on. Let’s hope what’s being said is genuine. I have massive doubts that it is.
Well, I suppose that largely depends on whether or not you think Ivic is a liar. He explicitly stated Estu had a minor problem and that he (Ivic) made the decision not to play him. Given his reputation he doesn't strike me as the type for unnecessary embellishment.
Three points and very happy for it. But let's not kid ourselves. That was a very typical Championship match, with a squad that is closer to what we'll have all season than not, and we were poor for much of it. An exciting, attacking first 25 minutes. But increasingly passive, naive and wasteful afterwards. Poor in using possession when we had it, not much counter-attacking threat that was building up to anything, young players who were rather anonymous (which is what we'd expect!), and a formation lacking a proper striker (because Joao Pedro was exciting but not exactly a proper CF today). We had precious few chances in the second half. Reality is, if Boro had anything good in attack, they were more likely to get a goal than we were to score a second. It will be much tougher when we play mid-table sides that have a bit more quality - Millwall, Derby, Cardiff, Swansea and Preston won't let us off so easily. Let alone Brentford, Norwich, Forest and, gulp, Bournemouth.
But if he’s been told not to play him because someone has bid this afternoon? I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just playing the other hand in the card game.
That doesn't mean he needs to lie about him being injured, or about it being his decision. There are a million evasive answers you can give that don't require you to lie about the situation. As I've said elsewhere, if the club's lying about things I expect we'll hear about it in short order because they'll struggle to keep it under wraps.
'we need to work with the guys who are ready to play, who are ready to give 100% to the club, who want to be here, for me its very important to work with this group of players, who will be positive every day' Ivic This is the most important thing til the window closes. We had to change the mentality of the squad. We just have to try to pick up as many points as possible until we have a settled squad. I was hoping for 15-18 points from the first 10 games. Now.its 12-15 from 9. Over those 9 games Ivic will improve us and he will also have some more players available. The club isn't broke but our current outgoings on wages are totally unsustainable so we have to move on at least 5 more high earners. A fair few of the 17 unavailable for the Boro game will stay. The club has 4 priorities to achieve before the window closes: 1. Get the right manager in (done) 2. Change the culture in the dressing room (moving in the right direction) 3. Lower the average age of the squad (clearly happening) 4. Achieve the minimum amout needed through sales (£50-70m?) and get enough high earners off the wage bill to make the club financially stable and sustainable (work in progress). Its not pretty but all these essential requirements are moving in the right direction.
The player culture that has been bred at the club as a result of the Pozzo model and allowed to flourish is appalling. We have acquired so many mercenaries who don’t play for the shirt which is the reason we ultimately got relegated last season. If they don’t want to play now, I’m not interested in them playing at all this season. If you want to leave, then go. I don’t want anyone who doesn’t want to be here bled back into the team just because no one else ended up buying them. We need to change the culture and now is the perfect time to start, if it takes another 2 or 3 seasons in the championship then I am completely fine with that. It gets to the point where success isn’t everything, football is more than just being in the premier league to me. And seeing the state of us last season with players downing tools and not putting anywhere near to 100% in a relegation battle made me feel the most distant I have ever felt to this football club.
Well, a win's a win. But that was not good. Looked like we were hanging on for large parts of the second half. Pedro played really well despite snatching at a couple of chances. Looks a real street fighter, prepared to take a knock and won't be intimidated by anyone. Also closed down from the front tirelessly. Quina on the other hand was awful. Wasteful in possession and very, very weak on the ball. Easily shrugged off it numerous times and left on the floor asking for free kicks for fair challenges. This is the biggest worry for me as was convinced it would be a breakout season for him after the friendly last week. Also thought he would be integral to Ivic's game plan but he won't be if he carries on like that. Thought Murray was fine when he came on. We were struggling to hold on for a win and everything he did broke the game up, either by winning or giving away a free kick. Speaking of which... when I saw the non-footballer Navarro confidently usher Cleverley away from that free kick at the end, I assumed we had a secret set piece merchant in the squad. Little did I expect that he was going to brainlessly hit a weak and low shot straight into the wall. The wait for the successor to Toszer goes on... Also, Cleverley looked a proper captain. Didn't actually have that good a game, certainly not on the ball but worked his socks off and was constantly trying to encourage and gee up the rest of the team. Looked like he embraced the role.
A win is a win, particularly with a pretty weak side. Pedro the highlight but his touch map showed how much he was our only threat. The midfield 3 struggled with being pressed, particularly quina who needs to adapt to not having the time on the ball he expects from friendlies and u23 football. thought they worked hard in the second half. We looked a threat from set pieces, good to see vidic say they are important. Sema’s delivery is good enough for this league. Unspectacular but effective winger, a bit like Anya was. We need a left back badly. Kiko is a decent footballer but he’s not interested in getting back in position to defend. Defensively we looked good other than a couple of lapses in concentration from set pieces which went unpunished. The first sign of the lower quality of the championship Interesting that of the absentees only Gray, from what I can see, posted anything related to the game on their Instagram etc.
if our “strongest” players don’t want to be here then I would rather they don’t play. These are the same “strongest” players that got us relegated. Team togetherness and psychology is key to starting afresh from the disaster of last season and that means not picking players that aren’t committed to and bought into the Vlad vision. I hope Ivic adheres to the commitment that no one’s place in the team is safe. Of the list of 17 players there are only 5 I’m really bothered about and I’m largely happy for the rest to be marginalised unless they demonstrate commitment and passion.
Three observations from me: Warnock sussed us and dropped his defence deeper after 30 minutes. Pedro was clever enough to then drop deeper. We finally have forwards that are adaptable. Quina loves a pirouette. Probably needs to learn the right time to try it. Sinclairs face when got told he wasn't coming on. A mixture of confusion and relief and comedy gold. Bonus one: How impossibly rubbish were Navarro's foul throws which even Lloydinho would struggle to beat.
We beat a side that hired a manager who is literally hired to be hard to beat. 1-0 on a Tuesday night at Boro away would've been an excellent result. No need for moaning just yet, squad doesn't look overly strong but not many will till October. We still have an advantage over many our opponents. I can say one thing with absolutely certainty though, Sarr will rip this league a new asshole.
I'm not convinced the repeated name calling of bed wetters or happy clappers is helpful or constructive. I fear it may be the recourse of a weak and feeble mind as a response to encountering someone with a different perspective.
It seems from his press conference that Ivic has the same view and I found this one of the most encouraging things about his press conference. If getting relegated is what it took for the Pozzos to finally give a Head Coach the freedom to properly manage a dressing room and the egos that come with it, then maybe it wasn’t such a bad thing after all.
Or, playing devils advocate, the opposite has happened and Gino has told him which players can and cannot play and Ivic is towing the party line.
Let’s face it, what some fans have said for years is largely playing out in front of our eyes. A large squad of individuals who are detached from the club and fans they play for - brought in on the premise that the club is a stepping stone for bigger things. They’ve never bought into the DNA of the place and now want to move on, make no secret of it and couldn’t care less what that does to their reputation with the fans. There’ll be platitudes given by then on social media profiles when they leave - but they will largely be empty. As a club, we asked for this. That’s the premise they were brought in under and it’s backfired massively, resulting in what we saw last night. There’s fans on here who saw this coming a long way off and there’s some who largely ignored it or wanted to believe it wasn’t the case.
