Just in. My thoughts: Another big team rolls into town = we freeze Mariappa is our weakest link Young is still an unlikeable little ****
Having read everybody's assessment of the game, I fear I'm just repeating more of the same. We were playing well, but a speculative shot out of nowhere, followed by a stunning free-kick left us with a mountain to climb. As a result, we were all over the place when conceding the third. I've no issue with Young celebrating those goals, but I don't get why he chose to antagonise the fans that used to adore him? From where I was, he received a good reception before the match. Disappointing, and now ensures that when he returns in future, he really will be booed. Just as we gave West ham and Newcastle a sniff of our goal, it's inevitable that the better teams will punish us. Remember Pedro's stunner for Chelsea after poor defending from a corner? Well tonight it was Ashley Young. But that's the trade-off for playing open, expansive, attacking football. Burnley and Huddersfield wouldn't have shipped 4 at home tonight - but look at their goals scored column. We all wanted a more entertaining style, which we now have. Unfortunately, tonight we saw the down side. As per most people's comments - Gray struggled again, but that wasn't why we lost the game. A top class defender or a tweak to the system is needed (maybe both), and then I think we'll have a great team that could comfortably claim 7th or 8th. But like most fans, we want it all instantly. Duxbury's comments in the media today that investment is planned for January is great to hear - I'm certain a defender will be amongst that. Shame for Hughes. I joked in the Newcastle thread he'd get injured now that he was playing great, so I'm to blame for cursing him. Saw him on crutches after the game, so looks like he'll be out for a while. Pereyra of course can slot straight in, only we all know he's also made of glass so everybody keep your fingers crossed! Overall, I thought we played great but were just let down by poor defensive mistakes, and were on the wrong end of two wonder strikes (not counting the fourth as great as he could easily have been stopped long before he scored). I fear that I'll be typing the same kind of thing come Saturday though - as although Spurs aren't on a great run, we will definitely give them chances which, no doubt, they'll take. Finally - people on Twitter were saying that BT spoke for 15 mins after the game without actually mentioning Watford! Is that true??!! And their pundit lineup consisted of Scholes and Ferdinand, plus Hargreaves on commentary?!! So much for balanced coverage then.....
Tonight's starting XI cost -Gomes. £ 0 - Femenia. £0 - Zeeglar. £2 mill - Prodl. £0 - Mariappa£0 - Kabasele. £4 mill - Doucoure. £5 mill - Cleverley. £8mill - Hughes. £5 mill - Richarlison£11 mill - Gray. £18 mill So 10/11 of the team cost £35 mill and Gray cost £18 mill. If we had a XI team full of Grays it would have cost us almost as much as Man Utd XI and we would have been almost as sh1t as they were too.
Can't be too dissapointed at that as that performance was decent but Manchester United are just so clinical. Not sure why Lingard wasn't just tripped up. I usually stick up for Andre Gray as I think some of the criticism has been unfair this season but in this match I was hoping that Silva would take him off for Troy Deeney after 20 minutes. I genuinely think Gray is struggling with confidence rather than ability though and I would like to see our supporters get behind him in the next game. Dissapointed for Hughes but Carrillo did very well when he come on as did Pereyra. Good penalty by Troy De Gea had no chance hopefully he can build on this. We truly need to strengthen at the back in January although we seem to be dealing with set pieces better. We really don't know when we are beaten and of it weren't for the 4th which could have been easily prevented I fancied us to get an equaliser. To out pass Manchester United and have the possession we had against them shows just how far we have come and how technically good our current players are. Oh and I hope Manchester City win the league United players are annoying and arrogant.
A similar game to Man City this season and the last two home games against Arsenal, matches where we competed well for much of the game but were outdone by moments of world class and incisive counterattacking from teams of superior pace and finishing, not unexpected with all the money that’s been spent on their squads and coaching systems (if Ash had shown that kind of quality during our ill-fated 2006/07 season and we’d hung onto him we’d have survived comfortably - great player for the club we were back then but he clearly needed to go to a bigger club to fully realize his potential). In fact, I thought we played really well and dominated comfortably in the first 20 minutes and I can't remember Man U threatening at all before they scored and were excellent after the subs came on up until their killer fourth. Not sure what was specially poor about Prodl, granted he wasn't the colossus he was in the same fixture last season, but I thought he brought the ball out of the back reasonably well and I can't remember him making any noticeable mistakes, unlike Kabasele who was at fault for their third and Mariappa who nearly let in a fourth for them. Much though I applaud this adventurous three-at-the-back system and the almost total absence of 4-4-2, if we're frequently going to be carved open in the middle even with three CBs and Doucoure and Cleverley protecting, I must sadly concede that we do need stronger central defenders. On the plus side, apart from the free kick (which even the other big teams would have struggled to deal with) I thought our defending at set pieces carried on the improvement it has of late. Gomes made some terrific reflex saves to ensure we were never totally out of it. Femenia had a quiet 40 opening minutes, but then had a couple of impressive moments that demonstrated the versatile and perhaps still underrated player he is - that surprising pop up on the left to deliver a fine cross for Richarlison on the stroke of half time, and a last ditch block in the second half just outside our goal. He looks he can play in quite a few positions on either side of the field which could be useful if we are short in cover, even as a centre back! He's steadily becoming alongside Doucoure and Richarlison my favourite player of the season. Zeegelaar may be better going forward but I think Femenia does the simple things better. I agree Doucoure didn't have his best game, probably giving the ball away more times than he had done in all the previous games combined (but given how few that has been, I'll cut him some slack) and not as composed in his shooting, but he always carries a threat and along with Deeney was one of few players not afraid to make a challenge. Cleverley and Hughes were as assured as ever in possession - if Hughes had been able to carry on longer he would've been a contender along with Cleverley for MotM. Gray worked hard and was energetic but not for the first time his first touch (or lack of it) let him down badly. I'm not sure why Deeney made so much of a difference because their play style in some ways is quite similar, but I guess Troy just adds this bustling presence and greater Premier League savvy. Carillo has disappointed for some weeks after an encouraging start, but he was very good tonight - what he lacks a bit in pace, he makes for invention, moving the ball about in dangerous areas, with a good through ball for Doucoure's goal. Just needs to show a bit more precision in the final third, knowing when to pass and when to shoot, but forward right in a 4-3-3 formation is IMO his best position. Going back to Deeney - he just loves scoring penalties against the Mancs! That's his third in as many home games against them. Very nicely taken pen too, cunnily wrong footing the keeper. Let's hope he can regain some scoring form in open play... Obviously a bit disappointed we didn't get anything, but I left the match feeling entertained and having my time and money well spent (which was so often not the case last season), and that's all we can ask for. The previous fixture against the same opponents ended up with us losing by two goals in a limp display (which strangely many thought was a good performance), this time we lose again by two goals, but the difference in performance, creativity and enjoyment for us was night and day (in more ways than one!).
Our play definitely deserved more than the result. Was never a 4-2 game. A draw would have been a fair result in my opinion. As pointed out already, United were just clinical, which is typical because against Brighton they were woeful. People slagging off Gray again is just ridiculous and getting boring now. We know he’s not a 20 goal a season striker and we shouldn’t expect him to be. He only cost £18mil, nothing in today’s market. Chris Wood cost Burnley £15mil and has only got 3 goals with 0 assists. Gray has 2 goals and 2 assists. This is a pretty invalid point but still, some perspective is needed. Imagine spending £75mil on Lukaku that could rise to £90mil!! He only has 8 goals and 4 assists in the Prem. Love the fight in this team and the attitude of refusing to be beaten until the full time whistle. Spurs will be a massive test on Saturday. They have had two shocking results drawing to WBA and losing to Leicester. Their title chase is now over and will be playing for a top 4 finish. They won’t want to lose against us and I fear the wrath of Spurs with the way we play. We won’t defend, Silva won’t change his philosophy and we will go for them. This will play into Spurs’ hands and I fully expect us to get trounced 4-1/5-1 but I don’t care. Our football is so much more entertaining and we are scoring goals (conceding a lot too mind). A striker is definitely not priority in January, we know where the back of the net is. A CB if not 2, has to be top of the list and then a striker. Obviously if we ship out Okaka then we need a replacement which I imagine will be Slimani. Anyway proud of the boys, proud of this team and love having the Pozzo’s as our owners. On a side note. Who seriously gives a crap what Young did. I for one don’t blame him for celebrating at all. It’s football not a fudging soap opera. I hate it when players don’t celebrate when they score against a former club. It’s pathetic. There is no loyalty in football and I thought it was refreshing that a former player actually celebrated against a former club. You should be celebrating a goal scored, not pretending you still give a crap about former club who sold you.
Good stuff. But I do think a striker will be a priority in January if the boys don't engage mojo-mode. We are losing games we are dominating, and at times leading in, and a more effective striker, than we have had available, would, IMHO, have made an enormous difference. We are scoring goals across the board because we don't have an effective striker to play too. I would be hugely surprised if Silva is not wetting himself for a decent striker. Gray is doing some things well, and I like him, but we may as well be playing Steve Butler. I believe we need a striker; I cannot see it not happening.
Wouldn't say we battered them but we can certainly pass the ball well and our subs made a big difference when they came on. I've been impressed with Young this season but it's a pity he showed his best against us. Collectively we did not defend well at times. Still proud of the boys. Their spirit and belief shone through. Mourinho shows little class even in victory. We need to go again in a few days against a Spurs side who have lost their mojo somewhat over the last few games. It's another free hit so we should go again in the same vein. It's certainly not boring like Mazzari second half of last season or under QSF. Surprised fans left at half time as the quality and entertainment was fairly high for most of that match. Manure played better than they have for a few games but even in defeat Doucoure looks class even when compared with Pogba. My player of the season so far.
Overall pleased with the performance and fight in the team especially second half. First half we never seemed to trouble them even with lots of possession. I think Marco summed it up pretty well by saying it was down to individual talent and they had the better quality in there team. Was really good to come out 2nd half and give them a game. We're not far off and with what people have mentioned a centre half and forward away from being a quality side. I fancy us against Spuds COYH
Gray got a good reaction when he was subbed off. He had a chance to acknowledge that. True to form he missed the chance. Christ this guy is thick as fudge isn't he. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt but if he's going to act like a prat when he scores and not even try to form a connection with the fans that actually want him to succeed you know where this is going to end up.
Never seen a ball bounce of a boot like it does with a Gray. He seems incapable of controlling even the gentlest of passes. Not sure what it is but he really needs to practice some of the basics. Thought our defence looked a bit suspect and suggests we need some strengthening in Jan
Left as soon as they scored their third. Once again it was proven to be the right decision. Not that arsed about youngs celebrations, he was never one of my favourites when he played for us. Just a bit disappointed I guess, considering he has said kind things about us in the past. We sure do concede a lot at home. Spurs will be a good chance for silva to show us he has a plan b. But does anyone really expect us not to concede at least 3?
Things that Deeney will do for you: hold the ball up, pass it to a team mate, score penalties. In all seriousness I think Deeney looks worse than he is because of his size and he looks slow, but when he comes on the ball sticks to him and he always does something useful with it. The unfortunate thing is he is a target man so he no longer gets into scoring positions, however he plays a part in creating the chance for whoever ends up at the end of the move.
Okaka does all that and gets into scoring positions too. But punishing a player because of a personality clash is much more important of course.
Fair enough celebrating against his old club it's something you don't see these days unfortunately it was the manner of the first celebration that has rankled people. Cupping his ear at Watford fans, who does he think he is? Andre Gray?
Leave it out, the guy was probably annoyed with himself for his performance. Why are our fans so needy?
For me the thing that needs working on more than anything is our composure after we concede a goal. Too often this season we’ve let in one, which then quickly becomes two, and sometimes even three in very quick succession. Last night we were the better team until going behind, and within just a few minutes 0-1 had become 0-3. It happened too against Liverpool. Chelsea. Everton. Man City. Plenty of signs of encouragement last night and no shame in losing to the second best team in the league, having played some decent football and given it a right go in the second half. But we have to stop these kamikaze periods of matches where we go to pieces and lose our shape and confidence. If we conceed one, we have to make sure we stay in the match.
Why leave? Did you do that against Liverpool? Missed some quality action. As said elsewhere we have a very good side, just short of a more clinical striker and another centre half. Manure could have put it to bed but I think some of their players are rather lazy. Contrast with Citee who did really outclass us. Thought we showed an excellent attitude in the second half. I've walked out of the theatre on the odd occasion but you never really know with football.
Shock: Watford fans easily upset Another game, another poor decision by officials, another player winds up the crowd, it could be our own player of the opposition’s I just don’t care I want to be annoyed at something! Watford fans are best in the league at booing. Never here a peep otherwise. Supprised by how loud the man U fans were. They varied the playlist with a good range of songs and didn’t resort to ‘is this a library?’ Or ‘shall we sing a song for you?’ Agree with @Relegation Certs that, on Saturday against yet another of our bogey teams, Tottenham, we’ll concede at least three and I hate Spuds fans
For once I agree with you! Well, mostly... One thing puzzles me. You are passionately anti-anything to do with Luton, yet you leave your own team's match at half time? Where's the passion for your own team? I don't get it.
Given our position in the league I'm sure we will try to bring in players to boost the squad so we can maintain a top half finish. I reckon it'll be one cb for now as generally there are more options in the summer and a striker. The good thing is we don't have to buy due to our position so we can do so on our Gino terms (to an extent)
Youngs a ***, no need to cup the ear or go for the machine gun celebration at the rookery. Great goals and a great player, happy for him to celebrate but that was over the top. Our fans were dreadful, so quiet but we have been all season. It's like when we were a mid table championship team again. Love doucoure such a player. Rich wasnt his best but he can't always be incredible. Gray was very average, deeney better. Not sure who I'd start v spurs I'd be tempted to stick with gray as I don't think deeney will get much joy attempting to bully spurs CBs. As everyone has said a couple of defenders in Jan would be very handy, hoping prodl was just rusty.
If we play with that level of passion vs Spurs I think we can avenge our 4-1 mauling last season in the same fixture. Denny needs to come on sooner in games on the occasion Grey is having a shocker in confidence but he does hold the ball up so well and create space. He plays more like an attacking midfielder than a striker.
We played entertaining football, were on top of the game for most of it. We were beaten by a team with better players that also had a bit of luck, not a better team. We're not putting away our chances up front and our defence needs bolstering. We were as good if not better than one of the best midfields in the world. Some of the passing was sublime. What's encouraging is save for a short spell our heads didn't drop. The players looked like they wanted to win. We just need an inform striker and one or two solid defenders but then we knew that already.
Amazed to see comments saying Prodl isn't good enough. After one start following a long period out! I actually think the answer to our CB issue is within the squad already: Craig Cathcart. A back 3 with him, Prodl and Kabasele would be great to see, if he can get himself fit.
I love this team! Some of the football we played in the second half last night was brilliant to watch, we sliced United open at times. Yes we're **** at the back and there's areas to improve on but I genuinely enjoy going to watch this team play, which hasn't always been the case in the last couple of seasons.
These are the comments from Jose Mourinho after last night's match. "The second half should have been five or six-nil, it was easier to score than the first. We missed chances," Mourinho said. "Out of nothing, they got a penalty for 3-1, then it was a different game. It was an easy match to win comfortably. At 3-2 the game is in the balance then Lingard had the initiative to kill the game." I have to agree with him. We were supposed to have made it competitive, but it was far too easy for them. A much easier game than they could have expect or should have got.
I think you are being a bit harsh on Prodl as he has been out injured for quite a few weeks and this was his first game back, so I expect he was just short of match practice and hence a bit rusty.
