Stadium Expansion

Using my basic planning knowledge to me it looks like they got off on a technicality as blocking development on the allotments was not critical to the expansion plans, it was merely a revenue generator for housing and parking. The article does state it is beleived it is the first time such a decision has been overturned.

It's much easier (and cheaper) to move a few turnips than it is to complete compulsory purchase orders on peoples homes. I'm sure not everyone would voluntarily sell up, even for silly money. The best thing the club can do is start to purchase surrounding houses as they come on the market or approach landlords if they are rented. obviously this is a long term strategy.

 

If they are planting turnips they deserve to lose their allotments. Horrible things. Turnips, not allotments.

 

Sorry Andrew. SGT was famously pre-fab at the time it was built, using the same parts as St Jame's Park and Twickenham (the old south stand), though interestingly, I believe both of those stands, now replaced, were three tier jobs as opposed to our (originally) one tier.

The eventual front tier was not, I'm pretty sure, made by Dow Mac, and may have been a more bespoke build.

Pretty sure there was some mention that the stand could be extended upward if there was ever a need.

 

That was just confusion with the possibility of an extra tier in the VR, Ashton mentioned the North West stand and someone then took it upon themselves that he meant the current SGT. For this the roof beams are integral to the concrete uprights and to build up would need a whole new and substantial structure behind ... as a builder I'm pretty sure it would be more cost effective to knock it down entirely and start from scratch.

 

I sit in the SGT Lower, and personally although the view is good, i think the stand is pretty poor and could do with a larger circulation area to the rear with better facilities. With the hospital skint, wouldn't they be more receptive than residents of Liverpool road to sell some land? A rebuild of it maybe an option after the SEJ enhancement? I still feel the Vicarage Road stand will prove the more difficult to enhance than either the SEJ or SGT stands. The housing block behind the Rookery (to me) seems a very difficult one to crack, if it needs to be demolished to enhance the stadium capacity. The block of land behind it currently used for allotments is designated as a new club VIP car park to replace the provision lower down Occupation Road which will be buiklt on for new houses. If it is right that the club is looking to add 9,000 seats, I am sure they have already formulated a plan that includes the current enhanced corners. Even with all the premiership cash flooding in, no one likes spending money twice. The other point about raising capacity is access and circulation around the stadium. Being able to mitigate the closure of Vicarage Road with the new hospital access road across Oxhey Park will be a big help when the new Met line station opens by Lawrence Haines school. 9,000 extra supporters all leaving in the same time frame after a match needs to be managed and explained with any planning proposal.

 

I think there's scope for both and if so then a 90 degree rotation is the answer; forget not that the SEJ can be dismantled and sold/reused.

edit: Still the most obvious solution is a whole new stadium on the edge of town however it would need to be expandable, we don't know yet just how successful we are going to get.

 

No and Yes, probably.

The speculation about a third tier was at the time the stand was being built, possibly confused by the other Dow Mac products.

I would say you are probably right about the structure, but that said, I seem to remember the roof cantelevers slotting onto pins on the the main stucture with all the stressing below the seating area (I walked along the main stress bar about a year after it was built, and at one point it was so twisted it was difficult to balance on it!).

So, not entirely inconceivable that it could have been done in the original state as presumably the third tier would have sat on the same pins the cantelevers do. But like you suggest, probably not have been practical.

 

I'd need to see a cross section but I suspect that just a little more height would effectively double the lateral stress on the uprights and I really cant see they're strong enough to take it.

Of course with extensive remodelling there is always the chance of squeezing in an extra tier but at the expense of the corporates and at considerable cost. I'm guessing that for an extra say 2k fans it's totally unviable.

 

Just have decent half time entertainment and the need for concourses is removed. Godfather, can you juggle?

 

At the expense of the corporates? That won't happen!

 

Oh look a flying pig! :]]

 

Realistically, if we build a second tier back over Vicarage Road, a third tier on the SGT stand, maximise the space around the SEJ stand by building back and adding a second tier, purchase the allotments and flats and build a new 2 tier Rookery and convert the entire stadium to safe standing, the maximum capacity we could squeeze in would be no more than 120,000. Therefore, we will eventually have no choice but to move to a new site when we outgrow that level of demand.

 

Pre-fab only in the sense that the concrete sections were cast offsite and transported in for minimal onsite disturbance.

Contrast the heavy concrete struts seen here..





With the slight metal framework of the SEJ..



To dismantle each stand would be like the equivalent of taking apart a Meccano set.. or smashing up you patio. Remembering as well that the SEJ was supplied by GL events.. a company who design semi permanent grandstands that are made to be either added to or quickly taken apart.




PS The old Milburn stand at SJP.. the one that resembled in part the Rous.. was two tiered and is technically still there. It was built around and had its Rous-like roof removed. You can just about see that in this pic.. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/supergeordie/sjp/builingnewsjp.jpg

That that would be something for us!

 

Option 4 - buy out the garages in OCc Road or some space behind the graham Taylor stand pushing both Elt John and Graham Taylor stands back. Turn the pitch 90 degrees and extend both Vic Road and Rookery length and depth ways.

You heard it here 1st - watch this space

 

You'd also need to purchase at least half the houses on Liverpool Road and/or some of the hospital buildings and parking areas. I know..ive measured it all out

PS Not impossible though.

 

I am not an expert on this sort of thing, but surely if you rotate a stand through 90 degrees, the fans will be laying on their back looking at the sky. Would have been OK under GT, but not with the Italian "on the floor" way of playing.

I'd want a refund.

 

Good point but I was thinking more of turning them towards the allotments to watch the cabbages grow ... that's more exciting than a drab loss against Man U anyday

 

Stretch a massive Velcro sheet between each of the main floodlight pylons and sell tickets to fans with the right clothing and hope no one needs a slash midway through either half.

 

This picture of Twickers shows how the third tier stands on top of the exec boxes. It's been stripped for demolition, but still shows the additional suspension supports that were used at Newcastle. Guessing the stand itself could bare either a roof or a tier, with the suspension supplementing the other.


I think the question is whether it is practical to do, and I suspect not. Add to that, the only examples I know of these three tier stands have long been replaced, and it seems that even if it were possible then, it ain't likely any more.

 

I met a strange man in a pub the other week who claimed to be from an alternate universe. He was a Watford fan.

He said in his world Laurence Bassini successfully vetoed the Pozzo takeover in 2012. The 2012/13 season began with a skeleton squad after many players walked out. Sean Dyche stayed till January despite not being paid all season. He was sacked with Watford in 24th place in the table and replaced by Paul Devlin in an attempt to win credibility with fans.

Fastforward to the man's present and Watford are (allegedly) a mid-table National League side, groundsharing with St Albans City at Clarence Park, interestingly still managed by the loyal Devlin. Ross Jenkins was Watford's best player, but was sold in the Summer to a an unspecified Championship team. Vicarage Road is a Tesco's.

There is talk of installing 200 extra seats in Clarence Park to cope with Watford's average attendance of 2,500.

I snidely laughed at the man, and to amuse myself I turned and asked if he had ever heard of Almen Abdi.

The man was gone.

 

Until 10 days ago I was not against a move to a new stadium on the edge of town. Now after our day out at the "London Stadium" I think we have to spend whatever is required to keep our stadium in the heart of the town.

 

We are so lucky the last post didn't happen, it nearly did!

 

August 2022 will mark 100 years of playing at the Vic. Perhaps we could have a long term competition to guess:

a) The official stadium capacity at the start of the 2022/23 season
b) The attendance for the first home league game of the 2022/23 season

 

Wrong .... we definitely did play West Ham away

 

a) 32,500.
b) 14,300.

 

Here are the final seconds of the Twickenham version of the GT stand.

[video=youtube;jV9QQHdVlHM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9QQHdVlHM[/video]

 

a)122,400
b) 94 and an old man with a dog

 

Loss against Man U? How does that work? Does that sort of thing actually happen?

 

My all-time favourite bit of rugby action.

 

I agree with you, but to replicate the West Ham experience we'd have to move to an existing building not designed as a football stadium. INTU, or St Albans Abbey, perhaps.

 

I would suggest that the scrum has collapsed.

 

Not quite so sure that this one is that easy to reset.