Watford Fc 1-3 Stoke City - League Cup 3rd Round - 21/09/2021

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by wfc4ever, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

  2. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    I agree with much of this, but Fletcher won everything in the air and could be a useful sub when we need to try something different. Both sides, but especially Stoke, gave the ball away too often, but there were some cracking moves by Watford and some super saves by the Stoke keeper. Not sure Elliott could be blamed for Clucas's fierce low shot which took a deflection or for the mis-hit cross which went over his head.
     
  3. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    Shows what we all knew anyway. Our first team defence is only borderline for giving us a good chance of staying up (no clean sheets yet) and our back up defence is definitely not going to keep us up if needed for long periods of the season.

    Apart from Pedro when he’s back, our back up striking options are hardly shouting to be first choice this season.

    Tufan offers something different to our somewhat uncreative midfield options, and I still believe Louza will prove a good addition but both need time and matches to get fit/used to the pace, and last night’s loss removes at least one more potential cup tie for that to happen.

    I hate losing any match. When all’s said and done, we were beaten by a Championship club. We’ve now lost two in a row at home, for so long last season our fortress. For me, winning breeds winning. Look at the confidence Brentford will now take into their match with Liverpool at the weekend, while heads will no doubt be even lower at Norwich after another big home defeat last night. I don’t take all this ‘I’d take losing to Stoke if we beat Newcastle’ stuff. We are a PL club now. We should be thinking bigger than that, and wanting to beat them both.

    Disappointing.
     
    Chiswell, Bubble, SkylaRose and 2 others like this.
  4. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    We did pick our first choice central defenders last night.
     
  5. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Well it seems the centre backs weren't the issue last night, but still, Sierralta and WTE is surely the way to go, Cathcart isn't good enough and Kabasele is never far away from a clanger
     
  6. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Our Xtrophy cabinet might look a little less empty if we had won the Xfacup or the Xleaguecup.

    I wonder if in 82 we may have pipped Liverpool on Xpoints and have won the Xtitle
     
  7. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Another frother to join the BW ranks. Welcome.
     
  8. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Lets remember we get eliminated early from The League Cup almost every year, and it has no bearing or reflection on the rest of the season whatsoever.

    I doubt this year will be any different.
     
  9. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    With respect to the game & result.

    Meh!

    More concerned that some players don't look like they're able to or trying to step up to the 1st team. Is it because they see the extra effort would not be rewarded? I want to see players fighting for their place.
     
  10. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    An entertaining game which we could/should have won, but lost. Well played Stoke. Tufan looks awesome and I think he'll play on Saturday. Louza continues to frustrate but I reckon there's a top player there somewhere trying to get out.
    I was disappointed when Ben Wilmot left but having seen his hair last night I'm glad he's gone
     
  11. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We don't want to win trophies, let alone most games. Watford fans enjoy the unlucky loser position.

    It's a surprise, considering our rivals have won a competition. You'd think our fans, young and old, would be desperate to match them.

    Instead, we invent things like the 'played in the PL Cup' and 'the we have four stands trophy' as the laughable attempts to feel more successful than them.

    Hell, they embarrassed us last season and the usual suspects didn't care. They aren't real fans. Far from it.
     
    DaveWFC likes this.
  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Oh but we sing and sing and sing all about Luton getting battered everywhere they go. But we're not obsessed with them. No sireee.
     
  13. MIlton Dammers

    MIlton Dammers Reservist

    Could be wrong (obv), but I suspect Xisco will stick with the same eleven that started an Narrch, if everyone's fit. Tufan on the bench.
     
  14. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I think he'll come in for Kucko.
     
    Bubble likes this.
  15. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Thanks for this link. Although you can't get an overall picture from just highlights, it seems to me that Fletcher did pretty well. He had wo headers, so I'm not sure which of them was considered tame. One was on target but deflected off one of the two defenders marking him closely. which took all the power off it and also redirected it straight to the keeper. The second one he got well above the taller Wilmott and got a clean connection, but it was well saved. Those two were interspersed with another goal (2 in 2 now, isn't it?) which he initiated with a lovely surging run and then when Hernandez missed, still managed to score through very quick thinking and nimble feet.

    A worse headed miss was Hernandez who was all on his own on the 6 yard line, completely unmarked, received a perfect ball for heading, but still managed to misdirect it on to the post. Fletcher still nearly made something of it on the follow up but was blocked.

    He seems to me to have something of the 'natural goalscorer' about him. He gets in the right positions and wins headers and follow ups in the box. In the two games we've seen him, he's done more than the likes of say King or Deeney have done in their last two games in a yellow shirt. I'm quite happy with him and think he'll be a useful striking backup during the season.

    One other thought from the highlights is that it was a harsh lesson for Ngakia their first goal. He won't do that again. He thought it was going to run out for our throw. But even Carl D1ckinson knew you don't take chances and you should just punt it into the stand for a throw to them.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  16. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Kucka did look pretty ****ed in the second half against Norwich, but Tufan probably isn't ready for a Premier League start so my guess is Etebo for Kucka, and then Tufan to come off the bench for Cleverley
     
    BigRossLittleRoss likes this.
  17. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Obviously not a great result but I find it a little bit strange when it's mentioned that this proves how weal our squad is. Last nights team will not play as a whole team again unless we have a catastrophic injury crisis. Most of them can play in the first team when we are only changing one or two players. The problems arise and we see it every year in this competition is that we play a team that are not used paying together as a team.
    I thought there were some bright spots and some not so bright spots
    Elliot - Looked like a keeper that hadn't played for 4 years. Fine as a third choice but that's it
    Masina - Never been a favourite of mine but last night he was awful summed up by missing an open goal from six yards. Poor passing, out of position on a few occasions and just generally poor
    Ngakia - Did some really good stuff but then did some things which you wouldn't get away with in League 2. Needs to play on a regular basis
    Kabasele - Thought he was the best of the defenders and should certainly be above Cathcart in the pecking order
    The Bloke from Chile - The biggest worry. Won most things in the air but defensively very poor and not even close to the player from last year. If that's his current form I understand why Xisco didn't play him Saturday
    Gosling - Was very useful last season but looked like a player who hadn't played much. Not as poor as others have said in my opinion but would not have pressed a claim to be included in the first team based on last night
    Louza - Neat and tidy and got stuck in. There is a player in there and would not write off just yet. Losing this game won't help him as not sure he's going to get much game time currently which is what he needs
    Tufan - I thought he looked very good although faded towards the end. He looks a very good footballer, strong on the ball with an eye for a pass. I think he will be a big player for us this season
    Sema - Did what he normally does. One lung busting run and tried very hard. Can never fault his effort but need a bit more from a wide player
    Cucho - Most attacking threat came from him and put in some lovely crosses. Very useful back up to current front 3 of Sarr, Dennis and King
    Fletcher - I know he scored but should have scored at least one more. Just doesn't look like a footballer and without question, not a Premier League footballer. looks very much like a squad filler that will now probably not play again until the FA Cup

    Not a fan of losing and always wants us to do well in the cup but I've certainly been to worse League Cup games and actually that was sort of enjoyable. Much like last year though, it will have zero bearing on the rest of the season
     
  18. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Bearing in mind the Stoke highlights will be heavily weighted on Stoke, those highlights are all Watford apart from Stokees goals and a Clucas shot on to crossbar.

    Stokes first goal was an error by Elliot, the second a massive deflection and the third a complete fluke.
     
  19. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Yeah but pre season losses and early League Cup exits are holiday season for the forum frothers .

    Same every year, you could almost set your clock by it.
     
  20. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Ngakia's error surely?
     
  21. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    From where I was sitting he didn't come close to winning everything, sometimes he barely got off the ground. Then when it was played into feet he constantly took steps back, a Stoke defender nicked in front of him and stole it. I really want to like him and believe he was more than a 5th choice free transfer back up but it seems that's all he is. Which is also fine, long as we have no injuries.
     
  22. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I would blame a combination. It was a failure of at least 4 players. Ngakia for the obvious error, the 2 CB's for just standing and holding position rather than reacting and closing the advancing player down, and Elliot for his weak attempt to cut out the ball.
     
  23. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Snappy, incisive summary - Mostly wrong.
     
    Lloyd and BigRossLittleRoss like this.
  24. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    This sort of mistaken argument is somehow brought up by a few posters every season after we get knocked out of a cup competition, only to be swiftly disproven every time by a quick look at our general league results and form before and after cup games.
     
  25. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Louza was the player that should've reacted as soon as Ngakia was robbed and the bloke started heading towards goal but he did nothing.

    Can't see any way that that's Elliott's fault.
     
  26. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    I would of busted a gut last night to try and prove myself as a selection for the first team. Gosling proved he is not at this level and Fletcher didn't do anything seriously wrong. I think the only player who knows he
    is more or less going to be playing Premier League football is Cucho, possibly Tufan. All the others know they are squad fillers at best. But even if that is true, why not really show Xisco you want to be first choice? I think they
    let themselves down badly last night especially Masina. It was Stoke City, not Manchester City, but our finishing in front of goal proved why Fletcher will be an impact sub at best.
     
  27. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    Agreed.

    I think we need to possibly rotate Kuca and Sissosko to accommodate Tufan, especially in home games where we need to be more creative in the middle.
     
  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Fair enough - I will say there seems to be far more reports that he was better but still looked pretty garbage. But game of opinions and all that jazz!
     
  29. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    You see, with respect, I don't get this. I've heard loads of people saying Josh King "looks like a number nine", "looks like a forward" and so on. He has scored none in 5. Hasn't even really come close.

    Ashley Fletcher, who you tell me "doesn't look like a footballer", has managed 2 in 2 (admittedly against lower class opposition) and was unlucky not to have at least one more last night.

    What importance are looks? It's not a beauty parade. I like goals and I like Fletcher.
     
    Chiswell likes this.
  30. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Of course , but once cross has come in it’s still highly defendable and Elliot had to come for that as it’s right in his 6 yd box .

    Difficult to tell exactly from the one camera angle as maybe there was a mix up between him and Sierralta who let Powell pop in on his shoulder, but it seems that Elliot was culpable .
    Even Bachmann might have stopped that , Foster defo would .

    Not sure if he can be blamed for other 2 goals , they were just flukes .
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    There was nothing he could gave done for the second goal, but I wouldn’t say it was a fluke. It was a good move by Stoke and an excellent finish. I was right in line with that shot and it actually curled around him. I think it may have taken a slight nick off Sissoko which probably added to to spin, but nothing fluky about it, IMO.

    The last goal wasn’t great from Elliot and his positioning was all wrong. That was probably a lucky shot but he should have got far closer to it than he did.

    He also got away with a very strange piece of keeping, when a ball was crossed in. He seemed to misjudge it and ended up diving at the ball to punch it when it was virtually at feet level, instead of coming forward and catching it cleanly.

    I just wasn’t very convinced by him. Seems a nice chap though, and I wish him well, but hopefully won’t be starting too many games in the future.
     
  32. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Think it's a bit harsh to blame him for the first two goals, the third, maybe you could question his positioning, but he wouldn't have been expecting a shot on goal (if indeed it was a shot!). Don't think we have to worry too much about whether he'll play much, he's a clear #3, maybe gets an FA Cup game against lower league oppo, but nothing more than that
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I didn't blame him for the second goal. I've clearly stated it was a good Stoke goal. Probably the first one we've conceded this season which is not a f*** up by one of our defenders/keeper.
     
  34. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    But the opposition can't be ignored, King has been playing well and looking dangerous in Prem games, Fletcher has scored one against a Palace side finding their feet, and another against the reserves of a Championship side. I'm glad Fletcher has scored twice, but I'm in no hurry to drop King
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Hmmm just watched it back and can see what you mean. I'd say it's still largely on the Ngakia error really and defenders not covering quickly enough more than Elliot, would basically has to go from standing to block a ball along the ground in a split second.

    It was definitely a cross rather than any kind of shot. Stoke guy is trying to guide a first time cross to the back post. The Wobby has a good picture of it going in and given the height the ball ballooned up there's absolutely no way that's saveable by any keeper regardless of starting position. 3ish yards out in that picture and it's still miles above crossbar height. And if anything, Elliot's starting position is a bit deep and if he'd have been a yard or two further forward he'd have looked even more stranded!

    [​IMG]
     

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