Watford Fc 1-3 Stoke City - League Cup 3rd Round - 21/09/2021

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by wfc4ever, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Really don't see it. Did nothing in the first half, woke up in the second and sprayed some balls around, hit a nice knuckleball shot and an awful free kick. Don't get me wrong, he was fine against a Championship second string in a nothing game but didn't see anything on that showing that says he'd be Premier League ready.
     
  2. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    It is all he is worth, if that.
    Useless
     
  3. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Was his first game for us tbf, and his first 90 mins of any sort for a while, I don't think anyone was expecting Capoue or Doucoure levels
     
  4. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Against Wolves he played Toure out of the game. If he plays on Saturday I'm sure he will be fine.

    How he got motm though, I've no idea.
    Tom Cleverley should get motm for putting in 110% effort sitting on the bench!
     
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  5. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Yeah that's fine, I agree. He looked ok with some promisimg touches. Just don't think we was anything special and certainly don't think he looked ready to start a crucial game on Saturday.
     
  6. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    I enjoyed tonight overall. Yes we extremely profligarant in front of goal, but the amount of chances made was promising at least. For the 2nd and 3rd, it didn't seem to be a defensive breakdown which makes it hard to judge how we lost 3-1. Stoke were defensively very strong and Davies had a top performance for them. Wilmot shackled Sema very well throughout and although the 2nd and 3rd goals were for me very lucky, it shouldn't dismiss the effort they put in to try and shut us down. They were overall the team with momentum and made the 1st goal count with it, but we seemed to wake up after it and pushed them back albeit to no avail.

    From bottom to top:

    Elliot couldn't have have done anything for the first or second, and did tip a shot onto the crossbar. For the 3rd, although in his defence those are impossible to anticipate, I would like another look to be sure he couldn't perhaps have done more. His distribution was "eh" and claimed most of the few crosses put in by Stoke who preferred to take pot shots.

    Ngakia had a mixed game. Highlights included a lung busting run to prevent a 1-1 from a corner, matching and eventually out muscling the striker and a similar move down Masina's side for a similar, albeit slightly less dangerous situation. He also put in a fantastic ball to Masina to miss. But his passing was poor and slightly lucky not to be punished. I think he was also pick pocketed for their first goal trying to shield it out for a goal kick. He needs regular game time as there is a good full back there and he does show it, but his inexperience / lack of technical calm on the ball hinders him.

    Masina was easily the worst of the back 4, regularly caught out of position for their attacks and impotent going forward including a glaring miss, although no goals I think directly came from it apart from maybe the fluke 3rd goal. As a back up he is acceptable but has a bit of Mariappa about him where you hope he plays no more than 5 - 10 league games a Season.

    Kabasele had an OK game, putting in a superb block to stop a 1-1 developing in the first half. He also had a dangerous header blocked from a cross too. Outside of that, I can't really remember him doing anything one way or the other, which probably isn't a bad thing. He did clap the crowd at the end so I'll give brownie points for that.

    Sierralta was dominant in the air but noticeably lacked the composure we saw previously on the floor when defending. He wasn't by any means calamitous, but we've seen better from him. Odd performance to judge overall.

    Gosling was the worst player on the pitch. Didn't do anything of note in winning the ball, progressing in forward or taking shots but was found lacking when Stoke got forward. Absolute gash and would rather we gave that spot to a youth player honestly.

    Louza was frustrating. He does some good attributes, especially knowing where to pick up the ball, but after that he gets caught wanting. Needs to get a quicker footballing brain to match what is happening around him as he takes too long. Don't know what would rectify this quickly though.

    Now for the big one. Tufan I thought looked very good, especially his vision and passing. He spotted Cucho's runs reliably and with pretty good precision allowing us to exploit space behind the wing backs. Physically he looked like Danny Rose's first games where he still needs to get match fit, but the quality is there.

    Sema was industrious as ever, but was effectively shackled by Wilmot, especially the first half. He did have a superb moment where he carried the ball most of the length of the pitch singlehandedly but that was as good as it got for him.

    Fletcher had a mixed game. Scored one, and denied very, very well by Davies on more than one occasion. But you are a striker and need to take a majority of chances made for you, especially the quantity made tonight. I am not against him being a last 20 minute option if we pump balls into the box and his movement was good and did at least force the keeper to react.

    Cucho was so unlucky not to have a few assists tonight. I thought he was wasted at RW, but his ability to beat a man and put in a vicious cross was almost like clockwork. He needs to be given more of a chance in the league. Also dilligent defensively, with a highlight being a perfect standing tackle that pushed Stoke back and whipped in another untaken cross.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  7. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    FWIW, I don't think he'll start on Saturday, I think he'll come off the bench, but I do hope he gets a chance in the the league team soon enough as he's a different kind of player to the rest of our midfield
     
  8. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Well tonight was a classic case of result forms opinion. Watford weren't great, but they didn't deserve to be spanked 3-1. Nearly 4-1 as Stoke also hit the bar.

    Watford had enough chances, and good chances, to have made Stoke's 3 an irrelevance. But this does highlight a problem that blighted us for a long, long time now. We're just so poor in front of goal, even when we create a host of excellent chances, we miss the lot. This is a regular occurrence over the years. Tonight's villains were Gosling and Fletcher. Seriously both should have been fighting for the match ball, but neither could hit a barn door. At least Gosling has the excuse of being a midfielder. But both players are middle of the road Championship players. They are really punching being at Watford this season.

    There were a lot of individual poor performances. Masina looks like he's gone back a step, and is miles behind Rose in terms of what he gives the side. Ngakia was a mixed bag. Defensively dreadful, but at least he kept going and was a threat going forward. MotM was a joke though.

    Sierralta looked like an angry man. He wasn't the same guy I saw last season. He was well below par, as was Kabs. I was disappointed in Elliot. He just didn't convince at all, and although didn't make any massive errors, he looked like he would be easily beaten, which indeed he was.

    Fletcher, what can I say. He did a few decent things, but overall he was bad....really bad when given a chance in front of goal. Even the one he scored was typical of the night. We tried our very best to miss it. Looked offside to me as well.

    I thought Cuco struggled, but got better as the game went on and put in some really nice crosses.

    Sema struggled tonight. Had one or two good moments, but overall was disappointing. He should be well on top of his opposite number in games like this but he wasn't.

    Louza wasn't that bad. Yes, he did misplace a few passes, but I saw something about him I liked. Wasn't scared to put himself about and has some quality about him. I certainly wouldn't write him off just yet, however, I'm not thinking he's really for a first team starter just yet.

    Tufan was ok. Nothing good or bad. He's probably off the pace physically, and not yet first team ready, but maybe useful from the bench.

    Overall, the thing that concerned me the most, was the attitude wasn't right in a lot of players. Seeing as these guys should be jumping at the bit to show the manager they should be starting, they only did the opposite and told him they should be nowhere near the first team, and if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. This is a worry, as the squad is not large as it is, and we cannot rely on many who were on show tonight.

    Let's be under no illusion as to the quality of opposition we faced tonight. They made EIGHT changes to the team that lost to Derby at the weekend. It was their backup team for sure......so that really should put our performance and the issues we have into sharp focus.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  9. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    I think that is a very fair summary. Oddly the subs made us look worse I thought and we just were not on the front foot in the first half which was wasted. I was told this was Elliots first game for nearly 4 years so if true maybe should be cut some slack as we had enough chances to go in front at the beginning of the 2nd half. Shame we didn't get to see Baah but i can understand why Munoz went for two first teamers.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  10. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Sorry just to clarify on Louza, the potential is there and if he was one of the free transfers not a problem take all the time to get up to speed but given a relatively large chunk of our budget was spent on him, I expected him to be Premier League ready and one of the first names on the team sheet. He looks far from it right now. For such a frugal window it does seem an odd decision that £6 million was spent on him.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Can't believe how low the expectations are. Our reserves gave a team in the division below's reserves a good match but came up short and that seems to be seen as a good thing. Our £9m signing was pretty awful throughout but did a couple of passes so people are happy.

    There was next to no quality football, nice passing moves, incisive play. Anything we did create was generally from sticking it in the mixer and the 25 shots is completely misleading as a fair amount of them were just optimistic hit and hopes straight into a defender's leg or high and wide.

    We do not have a good squad. Our first eleven might be fine but if we need to rely on some of the players out there tonight for any length of time, we are in a whole world of trouble.
     
    simpleMASH likes this.
  12. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    I came on here expecting to see a lot of overreacting and I haven't been disappointed. Good work everyone.
     
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  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    My thoughts too. I think a few are hoping he'll be brilliant and are bigging him up without any real just reason. He did ok, but nothing to get overly excited about from what I saw tonight.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  14. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    That went well then.

    About as well as usual for our milk cup run.
     
  15. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    Didn't watch, listen to it, checked the score about 10:30pm and didnt really care too much about the scoreline. That says a lot about what this cup competition's become they may as well start calling it The reserve cup. Sounds like we were useless in front of goal.
     
  16. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    It was a weird match overall. It could have been 4-1 to either side. There was a frustration from some players that are used to having Sarr as an outlet.

    There was a moment in the game where Cucho was running at goal and Gosling overlapped. Cucho had a look, realised it was Gosling, and took a shot instead.

    Again, Cucho picked up the ball and was looking for Fletcher to run in behind, but instead Fletcher went wide, leaving Cucho with no options.

    Our clearly Championship-level players really showed it this evening. Thankfully, I doubt we will be seeing much more of Gosling or Fletcher, but I have huge reservations about Ngakia who will have to play as Kiko is made of glass. Masina and Sema also lacking the pace and quality required, but I'm not quite as worried about them as Ngakia. Looks a beaten man in one-on-ones.

    Louza, as I've said before, isn't the type of player that will succeed in England but will be a really good player somewhere less physical. Reminds me of Remy Cabella and Florian Thauvin at Newcastle. Technically excellent, physically dominated - loaned out back to France.
     
  17. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Same as ever tbf, we always lose at this stage to lower league oppo with a makeshift squad. We've always had varying levels of depth in different positions, I dare say our midfield as it stands can just about withstand an absence or two, our forward line can get by without anyone other than Sarr, but defensively we're in a bit of a pickle if we don't pick our first choice back 4
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  18. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Yes but I don't mind our second string going out to a strong Spurs team or a lower division team playing their best players. But we've just been dumped out by a Stoke team that made 8 changes and at no point did we look like a coherent unit.
     
  19. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I definitely think Ngakia will be a very good RB in the future, but the problem is at the moment he is very raw, he's just turned 21 but has never really had a proper run at first team level. I'd definitely say he has more upside defensively as an RB than Kiko, but has an error in him, and will probably never be as good going forward. Played a lot early last season when Kiko was playing at LB/LWB, then hardly played as Masina came back, I'm sure he'd have benefited from playing regularly, but would we have still gone up? **** knows lol
     
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    TBF It's been pretty tame and balanced I think as in no-one calling for sackings or people to never play again.
     
  21. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I too am concerned about a number of that XI playing for us in the league, but could we really expect coherence and quality? As someone said on here, in the Prem you see Sarr making those runs, in this, it's Fletcher and Sema getting in each other's way because they've hardly played with each other
     
  22. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Ha, that was shyte.
     
  23. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    25 shots and only 1 goal. Was Gray recalled and playing tonight? Who knows?

    The whole evening was a bit surreal. Despite the announcement of there being no website audio match commentary because of 'sh1te energy drink' cup paywall malarkey. It turns out there is a commentary being broadcast on the website (on the live commentary page) which they hook towards the end of the first half. No more match commentary for you plebs. So why on God's own earth were they doing a full match broadcast in the first place if there was going to be no audience. Why was the Crystal Palace match in the previous round broadcast? Or was this another illicit commentary I stumbled onto. Have I just entered The Twilight Zone? A recurring nightmare narrated by Jon Marks and bloody Mooney. It ends where I get stuck in a lift with the world's worst namedropper as we plummet straight down to hell while he drones on about ex-footballers' offspring who play in his kids' school teams, 'no-marks' he has scouted over the years, team shape, and endless positivity about a demon's red hot poker being shoved up yer jacksie.
     
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  24. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Well I hear the 2 in question are pretty swift and efficient with the half-time tea urn. Their biscuit arrangements are also legendary.
     
  25. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    We huffed and puffed and came up short against Stokes reserves. There were enough players out there close to our first eleven for this to be a humiliation. But our fans will gloss over it and pretend to be glad that one of the opportunities of winning a first trophy in our history has gone.

    Xisco has NO clue about how to change a game.

    Sierralta looking like a one season wonder.

    Ngakia awful. Where is his fan club now?

    Masina utterly woeful. Hard to put into words just how bad he was.

    Cucho is not gonna make it. Sorry.

    Sema dominated by rejected weed wilmot.

    Louza offered nothing.

    The only one who looked like he might become an important player was Tufan. And its a big might. And I am probably being blinded by the hype in saying that.

    Make no mistake about it, outside of our first eleven our squad is grim.

    Kiko and Sarr staying fit is the key to our season. If one or other of them are out, we will lose everytime.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Also, we have a left back and a midfielder who are still unfit after how many weeks of conditioning and diet work?

    Rik Waller could get premier league fit in less time than Rose and Tufan.
     
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  27. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Maybe we can gift him to Udinese on a free, after all, we only spent about 80% of our summer outgoing budget on him.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  28. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Ahem.
     
  29. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Wasn’t it £9m? (10m euro). Brokered of course by our friend of the family. Meanwhile Cathcart starts in defence. Disgraceful.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Kolo or Yaya?
     
  32. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Kolo, Kolo Kolo, Kolo Kolo, Kolo Kolo Toure I think.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  33. That's about how I saw it, except maybe not so charitable about Louza; every time he attempted a pass that was not 'regulation', it got picked off (apart from one to Cucho that was about a mm from being picked off). Ngakia and Masina also guilty of playing easy passes straight to a red shirt, usually after good play to chase or recover the ball.

    Gosling, oh dear. I think he would probably like to go back to the Championship, can't imagine him getting any game time now.

    But overall, I left VR wondering how the hell we lost - woeful finishing, MoM from Stoke keeper, and 2 freaky goals being the answer. Not overly worried.
     
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  34. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    We had more than enough chances to win that game.

    Tufan looked good in spells.

    Louza resembled a footballer, which is an improvement on his debut at Brighton, but unfortunately he looked like a really poor footballer.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  35. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    No. He was much sharper, combative in the tackle and played some great passes.
     
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