Troy Deeney

Would Gracia replacing Sema with Cleverley who went on to score the winning goal at Palace count?

 

I don't remember that off the top of my head, to be honest, but based on the criteria I outlined in my response to Eric my instinct would be not.

 

I want to believe that's true too. But peak pozzo team beats peak GT team all day long.

 

Well, I've remembered another one - in the comeback against Arsenal, when Silva switched from three to four at the back, making a double substitution when he replaced Gray with Deeney (who scored the equalizing penalty) and Mariappa with Carrillo, and later replacing Pereyra with Capoue. Though Deeney for Gray was a like-for-like swap and you might say we'd have won the game anyway even without the change in formation.

 

Certainly sounds like that could be the one - wouldn't be surprised if it was Silva, given his prowess as a coach when he's not busy slithering.

 

On the flip side, he's pretty bad at seeing games out, something Fulham fans may find out to their cost as West Brom and Bournemouth seem quite capable of doing that.

 

The players Muff have managed to retain for a second season down in the muck are ridiculous when you take a look - Lerma spending two seasons in the Championship is not something that makes any sense, for a start, and Cahill has been a genius pick up for them.

 

You REALLY didn’t see peak GT team, did you?

 

Imagine if Ranieri was our...erm...Ranieri?

 

I think that was the plan all along tbf! Was the obvious choice to bring on our best player!

Bold choices like that from the gaffer aren't always going to work (I mean last week's lineup was a gamble that backfired massively), but at least Ranieri is coming up with some sort of ideas to change the game rather than pre-planned subs which do nothing

 

Watching Ranieri change the game yesterday from the sidelines, and how we took the game to them after our second equalizer really just highlighted how far the ball was dropped by retaining Munoz, and giving him the entire pre-season along with some of our easier fixtures.

 

I think Gino really went against his instincts on Munoz. For me, it was a no brainer to move him on in the summer and get someone in who was more experienced.

Munoz was the man for the moment last season. It was all about restoring morale and getting a superior squad playing to their abilities, but there were enough concerns with his game plan when we came up against other promotion candidates, we generally fell flat (apart from Norwich for some reason).

But had Gino axed Munoz I think there would have been a bit of a backlash, so probably thought we’d give this guy a chance as the players liked him.

It was another mistake, but has been rectified. However, I do think we’ve wasted 4 winnable games in the process.

 

Xisco had earnt the right to try and we acted quickly enough when we needed to. By hook or by crook, he did get enough points to keep us well within the pack as well. A mistake, yes, but we've made plenty worse.

 

Agree with all of this. Given the rebuild job we did this summer, I’m not sure there would have been a problem amongst the players if Munoz had been replaced.

He should have been gone the day after the season ended. He was the man for the job at the time, and did what was required. There’s no room for sentiment at this level; and as you say, we’ve wasted a number of winnable games because of it.

 

Tbf, while it was easy to get rid of Slav after promotion as his contract had run out, Gracia and Xisco were both contracted to us, I'm certain had their contracts expired in the summer they'd have been gone

 

The amazing thing is that they give Xisco a deal that ran into this season in the first place.

The expectation was always to get back to the Premier League this season, so why would you give a complete unknown with almost no managerial experience - who was never likely to be anywhere near good enough for this level - a contract that runs into what you plan/expect to be a Premier League season? Bizarre as ever.

 

Were there any other managers at all who would have taken the job? Was the extra year a sticking point for Xisco? On the face of it, I'm surprised Slav only took the job until that summer!

 

If u added your your body count to your IQ, your IQ would still be lower than mine LOL

 

Xisco would have been absolutely off his head to turn down a 6 month deal at a club like Watford. He was (still is, really) an absolute nobody and it was a huge, unexpected opportunity for him as someone with no logical right to such a relatively high profile job.

I'd be absolutely amazed if he demanded an 18 month deal, he would have had no real right to do so in his position, and if he did then we should have told him to p*ss off and left him to managing in the arse end of nowhere and continuing to be completely obscure and irrelevant.

 

Diego Martinez was available in the summer, and the most pleasing linked name before Claudio was appointed - the reports were that he didn't want to take any job until summer so that he can start a season and have a preseason with whichever club, but he obviously would have had that opportunity to build something had we brought him in at the time.

You can ask whether he would have been prepared to come here, but that's true of any coach, and it's also a debate that was gone over relatively thoroughly on the Xisco sacked/next manager thread a few weeks ago.

 

I wonder if being a friend of the Pozzos Ranieri was spoken to about the job in the likely event things don’t work out with Munoz. He did a good job at Samp but decided not to renew his contract after two seasons, then at his age takes a job with a lesser team likely to be fighting relegation. Might be why he didn’t renew his contract at Sampdoria.

 

Ironic, as what you’ve written there reads like you’ve got the IQ of potato.

 

Took you over a week to come up with a response but it was worth it. Well done.

 

Thanks dude, I really appreciate any kind of feedback from such an intellectual heavyweight as yourself. Thank you so much for taking time out from your vital, cutting edge and groundbreaking research into quantum computing to respond to my post. Yours ever, Moosegasm

 

Well, like many I was very much in favour of retaining Munoz after promotion, but I’ll admit it was a case of heart ruling head, as logically it was never going to work.

In the vast majority of cases managers do retain their job after promotion to the Prem, regardless of their experience (or lack of), but the ones without PL experience that work are those that have been at the club for a long time and/or already have substantial managerial experience, and even in some cases they have had to take the club straight back down before establishing them in the top flight (eg Curbishley, Dyche). In some cases they have had to sack the manager mid-season if they feel he can’t cut it (Di Matteo at WBA, Adkins at Southampton, and IMO rather harshly Hughton at Newcastle, although those three went much later than Xisco). Of those who join a club already in the Prem who don’t have EPL experience, usually only the ones that have managed in another top flight succeed (Graham Potter is a good example as he’s at a club similar in size to us). Those who have only worked as an assistant or have only managed for a limited number of games in the Championship or never had a sustained spell at that level usually fail.

So given plenty of managers with better pedigree than Xisco have failed at that level, it was not logical to think that Xisco could succeed. But, you know, that’s the beauty of football, in that sometimes it does fly in the face of logic (similarly, look at how comfortably some players who have never played at the top level adapt there). And I think those who wanted to keep Xisco on (I admit I felt that way) wanted to have him manage us in the top flight as proof that romance still exists in football, in the hope of a fairytale unfolding of a rookie who’s never managed in the English league before, gets his lucky break and comfortably keeps little Watford in the top flight after getting promoted with something to spare and setting a number of records in the process. But the Pozzos in the cold light of day are hard-nosed businessmen, they shouldn’t have gambled on this tale having a happy ending but it would be hypocritical of me to criticise them for their decision any further if it isn’t already.

 

My pleasure as always. My charity work is very important to me. I wish you success in pushing your body count higher to achieve even greater respect from friends.

 

and I wish you well in your quest for a Nobel prize for your work developing artificial super intelligence. Although how anyone could think that one day a computer might have a higher IQ than you is beyond me. It just doesnt seem possible.

 

Peak Pozzo team would not have been able to handle the dynamism, physicality, pressing, breaking at pace and non-stop persistence of the side that finished runners-up.
And the following season's team would've seen MoJo score a hatful.
After that, you may have a point.

 

You and me both but you have to set targets, no matter how unachievable.

 

Are you saying my target to keep my body count below 75 is unachievable? Well, I guess with your IQ level, I have to take that comment very seriously.

 

I want to believe. But I had an argument with someone at the match about it the other year (with me being team GT) at the time, and he convinced me team Pozzo wins easily. I can't remember the finer details unfortunately as I was pissed, but it was highly convincing.

 

Perhaps only because you were pi55ed?

 

If the fitness levels were the same between the two sides....maybe. But the difference in fitness, conditioning, tactical awareness etc of modern sides would mean a comfortable 5-1 win for the Pozzo XI

 

Well obviously you have to assume equality in terms of fitness, conditioning, state of the pitches etc. Can you imagine a majority of current EPL players performing the way such as George Best did on the types of mudheaps he had to play on? To take the implication of your comment to its logical conclusion would be to state that a current League 2 full back would be able to keep Stanley Matthews quiet....along with the fact that the players 'marking' Matthews in the '50s wouldn't be on the pitch for longer than 15 minutes today with the types of challenges they were allowed to put in.