Sir Keir Starmer’s Barmy Army

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by Moose, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    It’s a fantastic move. Unless he actually has to resign, in which case he’s ******. Marvellous principles of course, but the Tories would probably be very pleased to see the back of him.

    He must have pretty strong advice that he won’t get fined.

    Edit: Or pretty strong advice that he will and this is the way out that preserves his reputation and detonates Johnson.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2022
  2. I like the fact that he emphasised that the people making the allegations don't actually believe them.
     
  3. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    It works well both ways. He doesn’t win a general election if he is fined and by resigning he likely takes down Boris as collateral.

    If he isn’t fined, he looks more honest and like he has more integrity.
     
  4. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    You must have one or two capable of getting dressed on their own and walking in a straight line
     
  5. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Not a keen follower of modern political candidates, I take it?
     
    Lloyd likes this.
  6. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    This is the Tories we are dealing with here. It’s nice to think they will get rid of Johnson because of his obvious misdemeanours, but they have continually let him get away with anything and everything. If Starmer went and Labour chose poorly they would have their papers laughing in Labour faces and could hold onto Johnson to demonstrate that nothing puts them off course in their mission (to **** the entire Country up).
     
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You are going to have to help me here.
     
    Lloyd likes this.
  8. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Quite, although I think the best result for Labour would probably be if Starmer is found not guilty and BSJ somehow manages to hold onto number 10 despite enormous pressure.
     
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  9. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I’ll give Tories a 10, current Labour a zero. Not that I think they are squeaky clean, they just don’t register with me so I can’t really mark them down.
     
  10. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Fair play to Starmer for resigning if he broke the rules. Unlike the PM who has no shame.
     
    Moose likes this.
  11. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Daily Mail spin in full action.

    4 articles already about how Starmer is only doing it to sway the police investigation.

    Laughable.
     
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  12. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

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  13. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    The whole thing I find most shocking about Beergate/Currygate is that the elected leader of HM's opposition is implied to have eaten a Korma rather than a dish of at least Madras strength.
     
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  14. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

     
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  15. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Interesting that Starmer’s decision has been met with absolute fury by both Tory MPs and their newspapers, seemingly forgetting that we are only here because of the conduct of the PM, his staff and his attempts to conceal it.

    What does this fury signify? Good news for Labour?
     
  16. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Starmer going would be a bonus for Labour assuming they replace him with someone half decent. Unfortunately it would likely lead to BJ going as well and BJ being in office will be a massive negative for the Tories come the next GE.

    I think we have a net zero sistuation here. But up with the muppets we have or replace them on the off chance we might get someone less muppetish.
     
  17. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    The Labour front bench has a lot more potentially decent leaders than the Tories imho. They also have Andy Burnham who is currently favourite to takeover if Starmer does go.

    The Tories are still suffering from the post Brexit clear out that took with it a lot of talent and replaced it with "yes men/women" who have no charisma or leadership qualities.

    The Tory front bench is heavily tarnished by their loyalty to Johnson (and the dishonesty that entails) and their general incompetence.

    I do think that Johnson is the opposition's greatest asset at the moment but I think that, should both parties change leaders, the Labour replacement options are looking far brighter than the Tories.
     
  18. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Actually Burnham is a good shout. He comes across as a leader but would he not need to come back in as an MP? Not so sure about renationalisation of the rail network tbh which is something he stands for. Anyone proposing that doesn't remember what it was like. What we do need is a firmer hand on the companies that control it.

    You're right about the Tories hopeless the lot of them. Lost my vote some time ago.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
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  19. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    It’s absurd to compare the railways of the 70s and 80s when the Country barely had a pot to piss in and investment was low, with today’s railways, which ought to be fantastic with new tech and trains, but have regularly been quite awful under privatisation.

    There have been frequent passenger revolutions about the state of services, some of which, like Southern Rail, just about ceased to function.

    Don’t let your long-term memory blinker your short term one.
     
  20. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    This will probably either be the making or breaking of Starmer.

    People don’t know what he stands for currently, but if he puts his job on the line and is found not guilty, he creates a clear dividing line between himself and Boris.

    I do find it amazing how feel so strongly against him. His career is very impressive. That he has massively marginalised Corbyn supporters (without too much infighting) within his own party is very impressive.

    His policies have been thin on the ground, but he’s not facing a government of big real ideas, so why not keep your cards close to your chest. He’ll play the ‘surprise, here are some big popular policy’ cards closer to the election (if he’s still there), when the Tories can’t strategise against them.

    The only reason I’d want him to be found guilty is because Rayner would clear off with him.
     
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  21. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I’m not disputing that Labour has some decent people, but it becomes more difficult when you actually try to name them as potential leaders, who would be recognised as so by the electorate.

    Who have you got in mind?
     
  22. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I would be concerned if Starmer went because of Labour’s moderate recent progress, but not very. The fact that someone like you Mike, openly hostile to socialism, is a cheerleader is sobering. There are a number of reasons for this.

    Firstly, because a revival under a centrist programme is not a recipe for electoral success. Labour is piling up votes in the big cities, where it will win already and in southern areas where it is very unlikely to win. It needs to appeal to the West Mids, Yorkshire, Humberside etc to win and so far, Starmer has had little appeal because most people there recognise that centre ground politics marginalises them and their communities.

    Secondly, because Labour without socialism is a dried out husk without a heart. It may not need lefties in charge, but it needs their energy and conscience. If you don’t believe me just consider whether we would have gone to war in Iraq if Blair hadn’t marginalised the left? In addition the party is haemorrhaging supporters unhappy that Starmer lied about his manifesto. This poor conduct would outrage you if it was directed towards any other group. What this means now is that Labour is poorer and lacks activists to knock on doors, deliver leaflets etc.

    In short, Labour needs to convince the working class and not southern liberals who shouldn’t be trying to change Labour like UKiP changed the Tories. In that respect, I applaud the concentration on the cost of living crisis.
     
  23. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Other than Andy Burnham, I would say Yvette Cooper, David Lammy, Wes Streeting, Emily Thornberry, Rachel Reeves and Angela Rayner (if she doesn't resign too) are all better than anyone the Tories currently have lined up to be their next leader imho. Lisa Nandy could also be on that list but I'm not keen on her personally.

    I'm not saying any of them are necessarily an improvement on Starmer but I think any replacement to Johnson will weaken the Tories much more than any of those potential replacements will weaken Labour.
     
  24. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Andy Burnham aside, that is an awful selection Sydney, crammed full of obvious vote losers like Lammy (pompous), Thornberry (pompous), Streeting (charmless and nasty), Cooper and Reeves (wishy, washy). Ok Rayner is good value and has heart, but even I can see she fails to always engage brain before speaking.

    There are more talented cabinet members, Thangam Debonnaire, Bridget Phillipson or Lucy Powell, but they lack profile. It means that if Starmer goes Lisa Nandy probably takes over. I’d be happier with her than those others you mention, but wot about the voters?
     
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  25. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

    My point was, however, that the Tories really don't have anyone as an obvious successor now. They have either had their own individual issues (Sunak, Gove etc) or are just plain incompetent (Raab, Truss etc).

    The fact that Jeremy Hunt has been talk about as a possible replacement for Johnson just shows the paucity of their choices!
     
  26. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Anyone who fancies a flutter on an outsider for next Tory leader could do worse than putting a fiver on Kemi Badenoch
     
  27. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    What odds for Dorries or Patel?

    The best performer on TV often seems to be Nadhim Zahawi, but I think Truss most likely.
     
  28. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Jeremy Hunt would require a massive pivot of the party away from Johnsonism. Can’t see it happening, just media talk.

    To be fair, few candidates seem like leaders until they are. It’s hard for us to judge who has that confidence and sparkle that others will follow.

    On the face of it, I think that’s lower on the Labour side than you and they will be anxious not to lose Starmer.
     
  29. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Unless there’s a complete financial meltdown, I really think the country will struggle to vote for an aggressive trade union type, so I’d rule Rayner out straight away.

    I agree with Cummings. The UK working class think that Labour are a party for the elite (remainers). I think they’ll continue to struggle to vote for a remain-supporting Londoner. But at the same time don’t want patronising, overbearing left wing policies, and want the conditions that make them feel that their hard work is being rewarded.

    Whilst England generally is much more right wing, but could palate a well speaking centre-left politician who offers them some sort of social, economic or political freedom of some kind.

    Streeting is good, but he’s a bit too ‘London’ for voters.

    To me, Nandy’s close to the top of the list. I think she has something special about her, in the way she responds to difficult questions (hence why she does all the media requests when Labour mess up). If she can deliver a powerful motivational speech, she’s probably their best shot.
     
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  30. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You need a party that reflects your liberal views. The Lib Dems maybe?

    Labour is the party of organised labour and your anti-trade union views shouldn’t be tolerated in it.

    Funny isn’t it, how when the unions were more powerful the working class backed Labour. Almost like there is a lesson there.
     
  31. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Come off it!!
     
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  32. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Exactly why Labour have had two election winning Prime Ministers in almost half a decade.

    You’d rather fight battles that were more relevant in Victorian times than they are today.

    People don’t want trade union labour. Boris Johnson ran a poor campaign, and predictably wiped the floor with Corbyn (won a decent amount of money on >90 seats). Even May ended up with quite a few more seats, running a platform that directly attacked her base.

    And the left felt they had a chance because their die hards were the most active on Twitter. The obvious truth is that people actively turned out, and voted for parties like the Conservatives, to block the left, rather than vote for the right.

    Parties should have a vision, but they are democratically elected, and therefore should represent the people’s views today. It’s arrogant and condescending to believe that you know better than the people.

    It’s sad that many of the left would rather watch the conservatives ruin our country more and more, than compromise to represent the average UK citizen.
     
    dynamo380 likes this.
  33. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Most of those attempts to get power have been by centrist Labour. You rarely seem to let these facts put you off your stride. Only once in nearly 20 years has Labour got over 40% and that was under Corbyn.

    You fail to address the fact that Labour’s working class vote doesn’t think like you, wants intervention, ‘levelling up’, even nationalisation.

    You may be correct that the left cannot get elected, but the Labour centre has been equally poor post the financial crash. A compromise is needed, but it must be based on the needs of the less well off otherwise, what’s the point of Labour?

    You and many of Starmer’s mob seem unwilling to compromise and are more interested in waging war on the left. It will be you that keeps the Tories in power if you cannot reach an accord with trade unionism and working class politics.
     
  34. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Starmer I reckon isn't going to resign. He is a former barrister after all, he would have a better idea than most if he broke the rules or not. Imo it isn't a gamble like the media are making it out to be. But we shall see.
     
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  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Ah but this isn't black and white and so he'll be fully aware it's still ultimately going to come down to a senior Durham police officer to make the call. I suspect he likes his odds but nothing more.
     
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