Quick Poll: Does Anyone Believe Johnson Did Not Mislead Parliament?

If you’ve got something to say, come out and say it.

 

Yes, he does make my blood boil. Shame he's not like his brother who resigned on a matter of principle. Growing up, Joe was the one his family always took the p1ss out of for being quiet and sensible. I know which one I'd have as Prime Minister.

 

Can't resign on principles if you don't have any.

 

I believe he has lied yes

But I won’t vote for a Labour leader who I believe will roll back Brexit bit by bit

Which means if Boris is still pm at next election I will hold my nose and vote for him

 

This is what Brexit enables. You now prefer the lies of toffs to even mild social democracy.

You do realise how utterly nuts your claims to be a bit left or anti-establishment are? You prefer lying Tories to the party of organised labour. And even if you don’t trust Labour, you could vote for another party. But hang on. It’s only the Tories and fringe headbangers who support Brexit in the form you do.

Without question, to make Brexit do anything like work we need some compromise. We are not going to shake off the need to trade and supply with Europe, so accept its terms. That won’t stop us trading elsewhere and may yield a few benefits we have lost.

 

Interesting. That's a bit of a stark position. Our relationship and level of engagement with the EU will fluctuate under any colour of government, but my perception is it's already being rolled back bit by bit anyway and this is about as Brexity a government as our country will likely ever produce. Plus I can't see any major party leader putting forward a manifesto to rejoin within the next 20-30 years - and by then who knows if the EU is still a thing anyway - so I'm surprised it'd swing your vote like that.

 

Like I said, radicalised. Hardest of hard brexits over social justice. Verging on mental illness.

 

In summary:

A subject that didn't even register on the national conscience 10 years ago is now so central to your identity and existence that you are prepared to sacrifice every other principle that you ever held on its altar.

Allahu Akbar.

 

Just LOL at the idea other MPs like Starmer etc aren't also liars

The biggest liar in WM in my lifetime was BLiar, so lets not fantasise Labour has a moral hill

I don't claim to be anything, in fact I’ve said on a number of occasions none of the available parties aligns with my beliefs

Tory toffs v Labour London woke middle class… tell me the difference?

 

If you had worked in manufacturing in the 80s as I had, and lived the damage membership did then, you would know you post was a load of boll*x

 

The beauty of democracy is we can all choose to believe what we want

Although remoaners appear to favour a mix of autocracy and simply shouting ‘thick racist’ loudly at anyone who disagrees

 

Justice is putting Bush and BLiar on trial for warcrimes

Make progress with that and then lets talk about minor infringements like fixed penalties, which I guess I get quite regularly for parking etc

 

You have made this argument before but I'm still not convinced. It was a decision by the Conservative governments under Thatcher/Major to move the UK economy to a primarily service basis not the EUs.

Germany's manufacturing has thrived in the EU. I would argue that the prime incentive to move away from manufacturing in the UK was our inability to match the low cost supplies coming from the emerging markets in the east or the high quality manufacturing of Germany.

But that is now beside the point. The "damage" has been done (although the UK economy has thrived since becoming service centric). What I don't understand is how Brexit "fixes" it. Do you think that any UK government is going to turn the economy back to manufacturing? And, if they do, will it be low cost, low regulation manufacturing, to match the emerging market produces, or do you think we will ever match the high quality manufacturing of Germany?

And if it's the latter, how does leaving the EU help? The former is obvious, but why would someone who is left of centre want to see the deregulation of the work force inorder to cut the costs to compete with other low wage/low regulation economies?

This is a genuine question. I want to understand where you see Brexit going and how it helps UK manufacturing (a trade deal with the likes of India is likely to have the opposite effect, surely?).

 

Yeah, but why bring facts into it?

Manufacturing has generally gone to the dogs for most western nations because you simply can't compete financially with e.g. China, who can manufacture stuff at a fraction of the cost.

I work for a manufacturing company myself, and we don't compete on cost because we can't. Instead, we create highly engineered/premium items, because it's simply not possible to make things for less than nations like China can.

The notion that UK manufacturing would be in great shape but for the EU is simply wrong. Western manufacturing has been suffering everywhere due to competition from the developing world. EU or no, the end result is the same.

 

This is a party that cannot win an election if it doesn't win back the North East.

There is zero chance in hell that they will do anything ideological to roll back Brexit, or they'll spend another few decades in the wilderness.

Voting for someone who has definitely undermined British democracy, because you're guessing the seemingly fairly-principled human rights lawyer will undermine democracy (with no evidence) is a bit odd.

 

I suppose I'm just surprised anyone on either side is still living with Brexit at the centre of their compass. It made sense a few years ago but feels a bit out of touch now. As you say, believe what you want, vote how you want. But I'd just as quickly question an FBPE freak saying they're voting whichever way to try to force re-entry into the EU, as you saying you'd hold your nose to vote Tory to protect Brexit.

I don't think I've heard the word outside of this place and Twitter in months. I know Truss tried to bring it back into fashion as Covid wound down by poking the EU over the N Ireland protocol but that's just nakedly self-generated politicking.

 

Woke!

House!

 

There is a world of difference between Tory Toffs and the likes of Angela Rayner, Rachel Reeves or indeed most of the other Labour MPs who are from modest backgrounds. You are just regurgitating tabloid crap for iamofwfc likes.

Another Tory tactic, there are no morals available, so let’s dispense with them. A viewpoint convenient for and much loved by the very rich of course.

Fact is, your Brexit movement is utterly hollowed out, devoid of ideas, ethics or purpose. Go wave your flag at it.

 

‘Labour London woke middle class’.

The bottom-feeding award of the year.

 

Sorry, but that’s simply a fig leaf for widespread failure to modernise and the Government to provide support. The French and Germans both still have three leading mass-market car makes. How did they manage that in the dreadful CM/EU?

 

With respect, you don’t really want my view, you want to call me a thick racist brexiteer

This has all been done before, I’m not biting

 

**fixed**

The UK is a world leader in bespoke/small run high cost products - all with high quality low quantity requirements (notably using high end materials). We don't do mass manufacturing (excepting in chemicals, pharma and foods).

Much like the US:

 

You vote for whoever you want to, and I’ll never ask you to justify it

 

I can see from your posts you are w@nking away in delight at the thought of another Brexit row

Sorry, not biting

 

"With respect", I've never called anyone a thick racist, although there were definitely some of them amongst the Brexit voters. And I certainly wouldn't call anyone a "Brexiteer".

If you don't want to explain how Brexit helps UK manufacturing, despite the leading Brexit economist, Patrick Minford, saying it will all but eliminate it, then that is fine. That is your choice.

 

The company I worked for (global market leader in its sector) took the decision 20 years ago to segment production in such a way that high volume 'basic' products with global applicability were produced in our (wholly-owned) Chinese plants, whilst more complex and/or 'regional' products continued to be produced in Europe & North America. Eventually our major competitor (Italian-based) bought a Chinese factory as they could not compete with the production cost & another competitor who emblazoned all their marketing with 'High Quality German Product' ended up sourcing some high volume product from China & 're-badging' it.
Membership of the EU had nothing to do with any of it, at any time.

Interestingly, in the period leading up to my retirement we were spending a lot of time analysing the point at which the overall savings involved may diminish sufficiently to justify 'on-shoring' a lot of the Chinese product into a new European plant. As lead time for such a new plant would be 18 months, projections suggested that point was close; and then Covid hit and I retired, so not sure what stage things are at now.

 

Of course.

But if I said I’m going to vote for the Conservatives because I hate the colour blue and I was afraid that Labour might make their logo blue, I’d expect further questions.

 

Ooh b*tchy little dig

Still not biting

You live your life I'll live mine, and when I want your advice I'll ask

 

Not from me

Vote for a candidate because you like the colour of their moustache for all I care

I have no right to tell you you're wrong, in fact I'll defend your right to form whatever opinion you wish with my very last breath

 

You seem unaware of how a forum works. People write something and others respond, usually in a less touchy fashion than this.

If you can’t take it, be a long term crybaby like @iamofwfc

 

Try saying please

 

Lots of people have been saying this for at least 12 years.

 

Lol. They lied about Brexit to line their and their billionaire chums pockets you fool. They dont give a flying fcuk about you or what state they are going to leave the country in. They are criminals. You are a bootlicker enabling a bunch of spivs, well done.

 

Let me just correct that for you

There, better

 

I know, people still vote for him though, even after the Darius Guppy tape was in the public domain.

Ian Hislop tears him a new one many moons ago: