New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. I haven't watched CL in decades, I haven't watched England in almost as long, these days I follow Watford and that's it. There is no European top 6 or European elite for me, its a meaningless construct. There is only a domestic 'top 6'.
    K9 Hornet likes this.
  2. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think in the case of Arsenal, I guess it depends on what the extra money does to them and how it’s spent in comparison to the other 14/20 teams. If they remain relatively as **** compared to the other teams, then I can’t imagine being humped around the league season in season out, by the same 14+5 teams will remain attractive to their fans for very long, compared to actual competitive fixtures they might be able to win.

    I guess it’s the same argument many of us have on here about merely surviving in the prem being dull compared to doing well in the championship.
  3. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The top players want to play against the top opposition in the top competition - it's why failing to qualify for the CL is such a big blow for the major teams and why there is a lot of talk about Spurs losing Kane and Dortmund losing Haaland in the summer because those players will want to play CL football. The big teams will probably remain in the PL as well as be in the SL, but all the top players will want to be playing in the SL in the same way that they're currently desperate for the CL and don't give a toss about the Europa League. And Everton and West Ham will most certainly not be paying the top players £150k per week once the next PL TV rights deal comes around at half the value because broadcasters suddenly see it as a more inferior competition with reduced global appeal.
    SkylaRose likes this.
  4. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Expunge them from the Premier League if this actually happens. Let them have their little kick about with Europe's elite in a small league on a tiny island off Greenland.

    PL will be down to 14 sides, but surely this would mean other leagues curtailed their sizes also. It was only a matter of time before this ridiculous idea took the next step. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but with no fans' their prospects for a big cash injection from TV and gate revenue will be very low.
  5. Why 14? Just promote 6 all the way down the pyramid.
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  6. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    The point is, for the large part, the 'elite status' is completely self imagined, otherwise they wouldn't need to do this.

    Despite spending 3 or 4 times more than their rivals, these clubs already don't quite dominate how they wish they could and some don't even compete for titles.
    sydney_horn likes this.
  7. They can't be allowed to remain in the domestic leagues, that gives them a huge cash advantage and locks in their domination forever.
  8. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I can really see Sky and BT being amongst the biggest losers in this. The inevitable decline in revenue for what will be the PL when the dust settles on this means they’ll be mad not to look at their own Netflix style model to plug the gap and cut the broadcasters out of the picture entirely.
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It's one or the other, either the big six are in the prem or they aren't. If they aren't, I see the Prem surviving and recovering. These teams are big RIGHT NOW. They are big brands but apart from Liverpool and Man City, living on past glories.

    In time, the strength of a meritocracy and a football pyramid will win out over a stale round Robin format.

    Football existed before Sky and TV and far east tours. It's conditioned everyone to buy into this ******** way of thinking.
    Jumbolina, SkylaRose and sydney_horn like this.
  10. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    I don’t find domestic football interesting other than Watford. I had no interest in watching last night’s PL game. But I do watch the occasional CL game, especially those away from England. I suppose I must retain some dim memory of the “exoticism” of European games in the 70s and 80s.

    Reactions on this thread suggest that is unusual, though.

    And anyway, this league isn’t really aimed at fans. It’s aimed at television, and the “followers” in (say) SE Asia.
    sydney_horn likes this.
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Disagree - are you really in favour of the status quo where UEFA somehow get 50 percent of the Champion's League TV rights for basically doing bugger all other than do sponsorship deals with Gazprom and sit in corporate hospitality boxes at the big games? It's understandable that the clubs should want more say in the competition and more of the pie than they currently get.

    Again, I'm not in favour of making the top European competition a fully closed shop in perpetuity, but I think it's reasonable for the top clubs to want more concessions of various sorts from UEFA.
  12. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’m horrifically bored with PL games, I’ve pretty much stopped watching them now and switched off last nights game after a short while, I only really wanted to see the analysis. But I’ve routinely watched them over the years and even now I’d still watch one over any European game.

    I’ve watched more championship games recently due to the peril involved with the results that can in some way effect us and I’ve found the games entertaining, which I think goes a long way to highlight how having skin in the game is so important for the entertainment value of sport.
  13. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    Which is why they're wetting themselves at this prospect.
    Sky,BT,UEFA,FIFA,all a bunch of steaming hypocrites.
    Football is a rotting corpse and now the penny is dropping for many.
    It's way beyond time for an overhaul of the pyramid.
    CarlosKickaballs and wfcmoog like this.
  14. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    Why do we have two threads discussing the same topic?

    Mods - can this thread be merged with the other one?
  15. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    The CL is the precursor to this abomination. I was against that and still am. You're asking the wrong questions.
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  16. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Yep, this is just the natural evolution of football sadly.

    Its no different to when satellite TV came along and pay monthly subscriptions enabled the PL to happen and become so big and successful. Thankfully that didn’t really impact on the real fans too much.

    (well it did in many ways, like fans of clubs who gambled it all and get plunged down a league or two)

    Now we’ve got services like Netflix you don’t need domestic broadcasters anymore, the natural evolution of that is to switch to a Netflix style system, but in order to make that as attractive to as many people worldwide and monetise it as much as physically possible it involves this breakaway ESL.

    It is nothing different to what Sky and the PL did all those years ago, this unfortunately just has a much greater negative impact on the legacy fans domestically than the previous breakaway did.
    I Blame Pozzo likes this.
  17. sdc_watford

    sdc_watford First Year Pro

    NIMBY Syndrome, I'm exactly the same and would happily tune in to a ESL tie between Real and Barca.

    I'm extremely blinkered, I am looking at what is best for the long term of Watford and although kicking out the "Big 6" seems like a good option I would be highly concerned of the financial implications for all other teams left in the league structure. So think I am happy for them to stay with their European football being in the shape of the ESL. Not entirely sure what the implications of FFP would be if they have a squad funded by the ESL playing in the EPL.
  18. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    For me, that would depend on where it is shown. If it is free to air or part of a Sky/BT package that I'm already paying for then sure, why not.

    But the speculation is that games could be pay per view or part of individual club TV subscription packages.

    I'm sure financially selling packages to the likes of the 150 million Man utd "fans" world wide makes sense but I don't think the casual fan of "neutral" games will be keen on paying for the privilege of watching two teams play that they don't actually support.

    As mentioned, the proposed structure is aimed at the worldwide viewers not the "legacy" fans.
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  19. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    It's not "self imagined" in terms of the revenue and value of the clubs involved. These lists almost exactly correspond to the 15 clubs expected to be the members of the Super League, with the minor exception of AC Milan (who have albeit managed to revive themselves a bit in the last couple of seasons).

    The Champion's League finals each year have also only been composed of combinations of 13 of these 15 teams since 2005. Borussia Dortmund and Man City are the only 2 of the 15 teams to have not appeared in a CL final since 2005.

    Top 14 clubs by annual revenue:

    1 Barcelona 840.8 [​IMG] Spain
    2 Real Madrid 757.3 [​IMG] Spain
    3 Manchester United 711.5 [​IMG] England
    4 Bayern Munich 660.1 [​IMG] Germany
    5 Paris Saint-Germain 635.9 [​IMG] France
    6 Manchester City 610.6 [​IMG] England
    7 Liverpool 604.7 [​IMG] England
    8 Tottenham Hotspur 521.1 [​IMG] England
    9 Chelsea 513.1 [​IMG] England 8
    10 Juventus 459.7 [​IMG] Italy
    11 Arsenal 445.6 [​IMG] England
    12 Borussia Dortmund 377.1 [​IMG] Germany
    13 Atlético Madrid 367.6 [​IMG] Spain
    14 Internazionale 364.6 [​IMG] Italy
    21 Milan 206.3 [​IMG] Italy

    Top 16 clubs by value (Forbes):

    1 Barcelona Spain 4,760 18 6 792 62
    2 Real Madrid Spain 4,750 12 6 792 92
    3 Bayern Munich Germany 4,215 39 0 703 49
    4 Manchester United England 4,200 10 16 643 167
    5 Liverpool England 4,100 88 2 619 62
    6 Manchester City England 4,000 49 0 609 -2
    7 Chelsea England 3,200 24 0 520 35
    8 Arsenal England 2,800 23 7 430 47
    9 Paris Saint-Germain France 2,500 129 0 599 -5
    10 Tottenham Hotspur England 2,300 42 39 494 134
    11 Juventus Italy 1,950 29 16 441 -14
    12 Borussia Dortmund Germany 1,900 112 0 405 15
    13 Atlético Madrid Spain 1,000 5 26 368 62
    14 Internazionale Italy 743 11 8 323 13
    15 Everton England 658 38 0 235 15
    16 Milan Italy 559 -4 4 165 -92'_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs
  20. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Agree entirely. I wouldn’t pay extra.
  21. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Hmm, well I've always liked the CL. CL games are some of my earliest memories of football. You're clearly a lost cause.
  22. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    While we agree on the broader points, if Tel Aviv and Minsk are the Champions of their country and have qualified for the European Cup, why shouldn’t they get a right to pit themselves against Europe’s biggest clubs? Seeding the CL would be like seeding the FA Cup - it simply isn’t palatable and it’s another idea that the big clubs should be told to **** off over if that’s what they want.
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  23. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    The genie is well and truly out of the bottle now. I knew this day/time would come considering the money in the game now and how that drives everything. The bottom line is, like the Premier League before it, people will tune into the ESL, and if they do there's nothing that can stop it. Some posters on here have said they would probably watch a game or two and once you get some buy in, there's no stopping the juggernaut. It's like rising ticket prices, replica kit, season tickets etc... people complain but ultimately people will pay, if people pay then it's a done deal. Whatever happens now and whatever, governments, football associations, UEFA or FIFA say, this is going to happen in some form. Maybe Perez was right that 'younger people are no longer interested in football', the younger generation want action and a faster pace of life, this American style closed shop franchise model is probably right up their street, you will probably find most complaints coming from those 35+ who still remember pre Premier League days or past glories, but maybe we are now dinosaurs?
  24. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Exactly. If football moves to a netflix style broadcast then I'll not be watching it. Would I watch a Barca Real ESL game? No. They've played each other numerous times every season and I've never really been interested. I've had sky or now tv or bt subscriptions and intervals over the last 10 years and not once made a date in the diary to watch an el classico. Would I therefore pay for any of it? Hell no.

    What would be brilliant is if Leicester qualified. Then sent their youth team into it and a paid mercenary thug whose job it was to nobble the most expensive player on the opponents side.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  25. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Selling tshirts and winning a rigged competition (the CL was already a huge concession to the egos of these clubs) doesn't change the fact that Arsenal haven't won a domestic league title for 15 odd years. Spurs not in my lifetime. AC Milan, not for as long as I can remember, etc.

    The Leicester, Leeds and Blackburn, off the top of my head, have more league titles in my memory than spurs. Forest more European Cups.

    The fact that these teams had some success when Branding suddenly became a big thing doesn't make them more successful. Sure Man u and Liverpool are the two most successful clubs in English football, but a lot of that success acheived with the rigged deck of a massive financial advantage over 90% of the opposition (and not talking about the previous advantage of just bigger gates).

    Even within that rigged game, 4 of these so called elite sides are behind West Ham and Leicester in the table. How does that qualify them to set themselves apart as a perpetually shut off elite cabal?

    You've been drinking the Flavor Aid
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    No, I'm a Watford fan and a competition which is designed specifically to favour the big brands and keep my beloved club in enforced serfdom doesn't appeal to me.

    You're the lost cause. You're like a working class guy who votes Tory because he thinks he's got more in common with JRM than a guy 2 pay grades below him.
  27. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Sorry thats what I meant really. The format is just wrong, they should have a chance to be in it but whats the point of having them play an extended league format where they get ****ed every game.

    Theres a video of the slavia prague chairman laughing as his team got drawn to three of the big names.

    And the FA cup is seeded in a way because big clubs only join from round 3.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
    Burnsy likes this.
  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The problem with number 3 is that the top clubs and their executives yesterday resigned from the European Club Association and have already been replaced. Even if UEFA concede ground and they remain, the other clubs aren’t going to allow them to waltz back in to the positions they held that allowed them to shape arguments and discussions to their own making. They simply will not be trusted one iota anymore. They will struggle to return to the power they already wielded - they will be weaker than they were at the weekend.

    Not saying it can’t happen - but they’ve stepped over a line that it’s difficult to come back from.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  29. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    I agree. But, as you say, it's still possible that the money will make the FA and UEFA give ground, and power, to these clubs to keep them in their competitions.

    Hopefully the other clubs, and the fans, will stop that from happening.
    Happy bunny and wfcmoog like this.
  30. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    There'll be a **** compromise that suits nobody they'll find from somewhere. My money would be on replacing the euros with super club mega euro knockout every 4 years.
    CarlosKickaballs and Happy bunny like this.
  31. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I hope (1) happens but I fear it will be (3) with a massive carrot to placate them until they rumble again in 5 years time, which will be more detrimental to football in the long term.
  32. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    How is the CL "rigged"?
  33. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Geez, I just like watching a competition where the top players at the top teams play against each other.

    It's the pinnacle of the modern game.
  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It starts right from the concept - teams from the bigger countries get more entries and have an easier qualification path. UEFA only recently reformed the qualification process to redress a bit of that. Then in the competition proper, things like groups and seedings favour the bigger clubs. It's all designed to reduce the chances of failure and to ensure, as much as it can be, clubs from the same limited pool make the quarter finals onwards each season.
  35. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    "I've had enough Robbie. Why did we leave the Premiership to come to this, TO THIS, to lose all the time? Everyone, EVERYONE Robbie, knew this was gonna happen. I'd rather we lose to Watford than Atletico Madrid three times a season. I'M SICK OF IT ROBBIE."

    - Arsenal Fan TV, 2022
    Burnsy likes this.

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