New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    I understand the point, I am not at your level yet. I hope that throwing out these 6 gives a chance for the rest to realise what is happening and reset.
    wfcmoog and Dr. Roland like this.
  2. ForzaWatford

    ForzaWatford Squad Player

    Aside from the obvious implications, it would change football completely. Those clubs would just hoover up any talent and probably have squads of 50+. If a club like Everton developed a player, they couldn't really keep him and build a side around him because he'd get picked up by a Super League team.

    The teams would probably start playing games abroad, it'll start as 1 or 2 a season but become the majority when the home audiences turn off it.

    Wouldn't be surprised if clubs like City and others bought clubs like us, or other PL/Champ clubs to use as a feeder club to their bigger club.

    Wouldn't even be surprised if games are shortened to appeal to Gen Z in time.
    El distraído likes this.
  3. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    How many games do you think they will be playing to need a squad of 50+
  4. ForzaWatford

    ForzaWatford Squad Player

    Chelsea probably already have nearly 50 players on the books as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if clubs have a 'super league' team and a 'Premier league' team. And then also cup teams.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  5. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    In truth the lockdown has changed the way I feel about football in general. I've invested a great deal of time, emotion and of course cash following watford over the best part of 50 years but over the past year I haven't missed it much at all. No doubt I'll renew my season ticket as soon as they go on sale though!
  6. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Well, (a) if the League actually gets going, which looks very uncertain at the moment, and (b) presuming that UEFA continues to operate a European club competition, which I guess is probable but would certainly necessitate reconfiguration. Added to that there is the possibility that the six clubs might be expelled from the PL.

    Far too many uncertainties to even attempt an answer to your point at this stage, surely?
  7. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Nothing wrong with VAR tech. Loads of sports use it and it works perfectly well there.

    The problem is with how it is being used, i.e. poorly. For some reason, governing bodies in football seem to be incapable of finding their arses with both hands.
    miked2006, wfcmoog and wfc4ever like this.
  8. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I guess I was looking at it on the basis the league does go ahead, and if it does I can’t really see how it would work, or whatever happens there wouldn’t be significant compromises/negative impact on whatever league we were left with.
  9. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Yes, but I would think UEFA will have to rethink its competition anyway so we’re unlikely just to “read across” the current qualification criteria.

    I agree it looks like being messy but this must be well down the list of concerns for the moment.
  10. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Not sure why Carragher and Neville are talking on MNF like Klopp was roundly condemning the plans - that certainly wasn’t what Klopp said. They are making out that he has made a stand against it when he hasn’t. Leeds players obviously were open about their objections and so was James Milner - but he’s 35 and will be unaffected by it anyway!

    He was pretty woolly in re-iterating what he said before about how he didn’t want it and seemed to shy away from the questions. If he is asked to fall in line or lose his job, there’s no doubt what he and others will do.

    I’ll be surprised if any major players or managers directly condemn this - any criticism will be indirect.
    wfcmoog, miked2006 and GoingDown like this.
  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Yep, it was all a bit embarrassing. Before Klopps interview Carragher basically said if this goes ahead Klopp will walk and the owners will be driven out within a week.

    Then Klopp waffled for 5 minutes, didn’t really say anything and certainly didn’t condemn it.

    Carragher and Neville should’ve said they were disappointed with his response, but they were both too gutless to do that and bizarrely Neville did the exact opposite and suggest that Klopp had said something he clearly didn’t even remotely say.
    wfcmoog and miked2006 like this.
  12. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

  13. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    He also called the owners ‘great people’ post-game and said any decisions they make are thoroughly thought out and that his job is to manage the team. Carragher talking like Klopp is some salt-of-the-earth man-of-the-people who will find out more about the plans and then walk and take the city with him - it’s just not going to happen.

    It’s clear Carragher and more so Neville are against this. But they are clearly hyping up their reactions for TV as well. Talking like there is going to be mutiny within the game and it’ll be lead by the players and staff of the Top 6 - it certainly won’t be.
    wfcmoog and Jumbolina like this.
  14. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    It certainly would level the playing field and we could possibly even win the PL one day if the so called big six were gone.
  15. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    SWEEPS 11 is gas giant silly
  16. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    I think this has all come about as a ploy to help negotiate extra funds from UEFA over the Champions League. However I think the group has now over exerted itself and has to commit to it. Most of the clubs who have agreed to it need a large cash injection due to the years of mismanagement of cash flow. All it has shown is what the top clubs think of fans.
  17. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Contrary to the opinion of many I actually don’t mind Neville, he always seems pretty principled to me, but yes ultimately though he’s a Sky employee and this is potentially catastrophic for them so that has to be factored in.

    Carragher is a little weasel though, you can tell he doesn’t really care but is going along with the sentiment. Just like he did with PBP, he tried to suggest to Steve Parish (who annoyingly didn’t get on to answering that part of the question) that some of the 14 clubs trying to get the season written off was no different.

    That spectacularly misses the point that it would’ve been a one off for one season, not permanent changes to the game to benefit a small number of clubs forever. Probably more importantly it also misses the point that getting the season written off was as an alternative to it being settled by PPG, unfortunately (for us) history went on to prove that settling the season by PPG would’ve been unfair and relegated villa completely unjustly, and kept us up when that’s not what would’ve actually happened, so if anything in the absence of the season restarting it would’ve been the fairest thing to do.

    Him trying to engage in whataboutery that isn’t even compatible suggests what his real opinion is to me.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Although this is all very disappointing and unsavoury, it’s to be expected and has happened countless thousand times in history. That’s why in most developed nations there are political systems that stop individuals holding on to power too long, or from being able to change rules undemocratically to benefit them. People will always look to grab power if the opportunity is there to do it, the key is to not allow them to operate within a framework that can enable it to happen and enable them to get drunk on their own self importance.
  19. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    All the 12 splitting are in huge amount of debt aside from Chelsea.

    It's being masked as the saviour for football. The big clubs have massive finances and it flows through to the smaller clubs. But it's simply protectionism. They can't afford to not qualify for the champions league in the same way Bolton or Portsmouth couldnt afford to not be in the premier league. Imagine if They did this 40 years ago? Man City nowhere near the top 12, Villa and Ipswich might be having discussions.

    The current Champions League became a farce when it wasnt the champions but also 3 or 4 others. Its a **** competition, designed to make money more than it is designed to be an exiting sporting competition. This isnt changing. The clubs in it can struggle in the league. That isnt changing. They should have seeding so qualifiers dont play a daft group with dynamo Minsk and happoel tel Aviv.

    It should be less games for the big sides not more and juat against each other. But the rod they've created for themselves exists and they need more games to pay their increasing bills - but pep and klopp moan about playing too many games over xmas and overall. So they come up with a league system they cant fall out of by failing to qualify, but has more games than before and no doubt will impact their countries league botheredness. Kick them out and do it before the season finishes.
  20. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Three outcomes now I think:

    1) The super 6 feck off and they are kicked out of the EPL and UEFA comps.

    2) The super 6 feck off but retain their EPL places which they will use for weakened/feeder teams.

    3) The super 6 are given sweeteners by the FA and UEFA to give up on the ESL and normal service resumes.

    Anything else?

    Personally I would like to see 1 happen. I think over the medium to long term fans will get bored with the repetition and the ESL will fail while the domestic competitions will recover.
    Happy bunny and wfcmoog like this.
  21. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    I suspect the evolution for the ESL, if it goes ahead, is to "Americanise" it.

    US sport is built for marketing and advertising.

    Within a few years there will be quarters and time outs so the TV coverage can get adverts and "messages from their sponsors" broadcast.

    I just hope that domestic football can retain its current structure and this just ends up with Union/League split that rugby has if it were to happen.
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  22. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think you may be right, the problem is if you look at the NFL, thats 32 teams and that is literally the entire sport, no cups, no euros, no World Cup. That is the sport (at least as far as there is any reasonable interest in) encapsulated into one competition, so it kind of works. The super bowl is the pinnacle of everything within it.

    In football you’ve got different leagues in different countries, different cups, international games, international competitions. Sure these are the ‘biggest clubs’ but they aren’t football in its entirety, there is plenty to hold people’s interests elsewhere and no guarantee such a circus would maintain people’s interest.
    Happy bunny and sydney_horn like this.
  23. This won't define football, there are >100 leagues and >5000 clubs in the UK.

    If anything this will improve football in the UK providing these teams are chucked out of the domestic competition.

    Most here have said although the PL is the place to be the Champ is more enjoyable for teams like us. Well this will turn the PL into a super champ. Personally I can't wait. The big 6 should have been kicked out years ago.
  24. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Yes, hopefully us ‘legacy fans’ as they have labelled us will be left with actual real football in this country (and maybe even occasionally in far flung and unusual places in Europe?) and the big 6 can bugger off and entertain 14 year old Chinese kids on their iPads.
  25. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player


    Harry's superpowers - there's more to him than just doing Zaha diving impressions?
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It can only be a deliberate farce. FIFA refused to adopt video technology for years, despite much poorer sports easily finding solutions.

    Even now, there's absolutely no reason why VAR in football should be so terrible, whilst it works adequately in rugby.

    The lines drawn around it's usage and the institutional incompetence are the issue. The principle is sound.
  27. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    They both have to be actively against it due to their paymasters Sky, who will no doubt be hugely concerned that a SL would devalue to the PL and they may not get any rights to a Super League.
  28. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    The issue with VAR is the people using it who are mainly idiots, the other main issue is not adapting existing rules for VAR. Offsides and handballs weren’t such an issue when it was down to the naked eye to spot them in real time. Now the tech is there to make categorical calls on such things the rules don’t line up with the tech. It’s just incompetence to not have considered the impact having tech would have on the application of these rules, and what changes needed to be made off the back of having the tech.
  29. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Which is why any compromise will be a disaster. More CL money, more votes, more power, weighted qualification so they get European football even when they're crap - none of it should be on the table.

    They've already got a rigged deck. The only good thing that can come out of this is to let them break away entirely and hit the reset button.

    They'll need to come back within 5 years with tarnished brands and less power.
  30. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Disagree. There are only so many star players who each team will be able to satisfy with such a limited program, possibly extended into exhibition games in Arabia or China.

    Money talks, sure, but will every player want to turn their back on actually playing competitive football, to being a pawn at a huge franchise? Players still want to play and test themselves and it's not as though everton and West Ham won't pay then 150k a week.
    GoingDown likes this.
  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I reckon that's wishful thinking. The clubs in the Super League would be the "elite" and stay that way until the next big disruption occurs in maybe two or three decades time (refer back to my post here for more: ).

    The NBA and NFL are even more closed shops than the Super League would be, yet remain popular and compelling competitions.

    I do dislike the proposed lack of promotion and relegation from the SL, but the top players will all be playing in it and its matches will stay attractive. Sure the PL changes its teams more regularly, but fans of, say Arsenal don't stop watching because they always have to play Everton and Crystal Palace basically every season, and it won't suddenly be the case that they stop watching because they now play Juventus and Real Madrid every season.
  32. If they are kicked out of domestic competition and have only SL, Arsenal fans will disappear in droves when they come bottom of the league every single year.

    It's incredibly arrogant to think 12 clubs are football. They're not. Football existed before them and will exist after them.

    What I suspect will happen, if the 12 have to go it alone, is they will realise they don't have mass to maintain fans interest and will try to add a second and perhaps third league and invite more clubs to join. That is the **** or bust moment for it all.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  33. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I don’t know, I mean from my perspective as I’ve stated before I don’t think I’ve ever watched a CL game. I would certainly never watch a European league game. I watch championship and PL games that involve teams that aren’t Watford though. As a fan if I supported Arsenal I think I would actually have more interest in playing palace every season than Real Madrid every season.

    Maybe that’s my skewed perception being a Watford fan who will never have the choice, but don’t most fans have more of an affinity for their own domestic league/football?
    wfcmoog likes this.
  34. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Political systems that stop institutions like UEFA holding on to power for too long??...
  35. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Maybe, but my point is more that I don't think the Super League would lose it's lustre that much over time.

    There's also the possibility that more regular games for the Super League teams against other elite, more glamorous, high level opposition will normalise them to thinking that is how football should be, thus over time making them increasingly care less about their domestic matches against relative minnows such as Palace.

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