New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Perhaps a way of the PL punishing the six clubs would be a points deduction of say 10 points or so at the start of next season, which would also make the PL more competitive next season as it would create a kind of handicap as in Golf, and give the smaller PL clubs a chance to possibly win the PL?
     
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  2. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    Hmm I'm not so sure.

    A points deduction, whilst being a short-term action, would send a clear message to the conspirators that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated.

    You are probably right in that it will fought tooth and nail. At the very least though, the PL should be considering this.
     
  3. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

  4. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    The trouble is that this punishes the innocent, particularly in the cases where the real perpetrators are leaving the clubs, although it does send a message for the future. What really needs to happen is a change in ownership rules (possible) and ideally a resetting of the imbalance of wealth (unlikely).
     
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  5. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    What are the grounds for a points deduction? Setting aside emotion for a minute, I'm struggling to identify anything solid. Is it just the 'bringing football into disrepute' catch all people are relying on?
     
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  6. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I’m sort of imaging Chelsea as Ray Winstone in sexy beast, happily retired from crime and then the glazers come along and force them into one more job.
     
  7. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    It’ll happen again. The clubs won’t get sufficiently punished and the only blowback from this will be the public face of the clubs (players and managers) getting **** on Twitter and when fans return. Every tweet from official accounts will be spammed with gifs and memes for a couple of months. Then it’ll be forgotten about while they crack on with reforming the Champions League.

    I was all for the reset button being pushed, even if it meant short term pain for my club in particular, as it would probably be hard to hold on to the squad.

    Big fat meh from me. They’ve confirmed what we all knew about them. They’re actually going to try and take credit for pulling back on it. Oh and of course Manchester City will make themselves out to be victims somehow.

    I wish nothing but the worst for all of them, especially Manchester United and Spurs.
     
  8. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I don't think there is any need to do anything. They have used the threat of a breakaway league for years in every negotiation with the PL and UEFA.

    By their own hand, it will always now be an empty threat.

    Seen at Chelsea last night, a banner saying, "We want our cold nights in Stoke!"...errr, there is a limit. :D
     
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    They signed up to another competition without the knowledge or backing of the PL board or member clubs. It’s a rule of their membership - they know that and they knowingly broke it.

    I think a suspended points deduction could be made but I don’t expect them to go fully in with one. Any financial punishment will be dragged through the courts and won’t really effect them much anyway as the fines will be nowhere near the 9 figures people are asking for. £5m max I bet.

    You were right earlier in saying they should be made to sign up for a fairer domestic sharing of wealth etc and new ownership rules.

    How do the other 14 clubs frame the argument that they really want them to stay - but they also want them punished? Apparently they have already said they welcome them back at the table - but they must send different executives next time as the previous ones aren’t welcome. I suspect the other 14 see that as a victory of sorts as Woodward, Levy etc will not be welcome, nor trusted and will simply be voted down time and time again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  10. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I'm sorry to hear about that El distraido, you can get pills for that kind of thing.
     
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  11. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Hmmm. That rules says that during the PL season a member club cannot 'enter or play in' another competition. Given the Super League wasn't taking place during this season it all comes down the the definition of 'enter'.
     
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  12. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Perhaps. But given the humiliating statements, they know what they were guilty of. They all say they have started procedures of withdrawal - so they signed up. 167 pages of contract supposedly. That’s not an overnight decision or something that was knocked up in a week or two - this lot have been briefing behind the other 14 clubs backs for months, if not years.

    The statements aren’t bullish enough if they think they did nothing wrong.
     
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  13. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Make no mistake, the PL has to get their house in order and not see this as a victory for them.

    As @GoingDown put across very well the other day, this has been coming and is partially a result of years and years of subliminally accepting and promoting there is a top group of clubs by the others - a group who deserve separate treatment and more recognition, rather than the equal share they are entitled to.

    The PL themselves floated the ‘39th’ game idea of playing a random game in the Far East purely for monetary reasons. When the league themselves start pushing these ideas, can those 6 clubs really be blamed solely for this latest failed plan? Their egos are rampant - because the others have failed to keep a grip on it.

    Ideas like the Super League will come round again and again with ever-increasing frequency unless the rules are re-written. Why does the PL have to be seen to be getting bigger and bigger with no limit on its success or growth? When is enough ‘enough’? It’s already wildly popular and watched and followed around the world. They need to take a step back and think that maybe, just maybe, what they have is enough.

    And that’s before we even get to the new CL proposals that have been waved through whilst all this is going on - UEFA will be secretly delighted about that make no mistake. These 12 clubs have surely lost the ability or right to protest them though....but the proposals are awful.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  14. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    There is something incredibly odd about the whole thing.

    There's a part of me that wonders now if it wasn't instead a ruse orchestrated to try and get fans enthusiastic about going back to stadiums at the start of next season, once covid restrictions should be lifted. Clubs probably had, and may still have, reasonable cause for concern that a degree of apathy may have set in amongst supporters during lockdown and they may have gotten used to watching games on TV or not at all, meaning next season may start with half-empty stadiums. As an example, Man City have struggled to even sell the 2,000 tickets they've been allocated for the Carabao Cup final.

    This whole business has had the effect of mobilising supporters and re-emphasising a marketing message that football is nothing without the backing of its "legacy fans" - something which those fans may now feel more compelled to act out upon by returning to matches asap and making their voices heard.

    There's also another potential angle - perhaps this wasn't a ploy to try and gain leverage in Champion's League negotiations, but rather something intended to distract from the potentially unpopular re-organisation of the CL that was voted through on Monday. If subjected to scrutiny, many fans and pundits may have been annoyed at the expansion of the CL, but now that has been buried by the possibility of something far worse, and suddenly everyone seems more content with what could just be the lesser of two possible new evils.

    For instancce, the new CL format actually has 2 places reserved each season for "elite clubs" that have failed to qualify for the tournament in the previous season but have done well in Europe in recent seasons (similar to the principal which people found most abhorrent in the even more closed SL proposal). There will also be more games for all CL clubs, which will probably make domestic competitions, especially cups, even less of a priority.

    As had been pointed out by the UEFA president Ceferin just after the SL proposal was announced, the top clubs had all already endorsed the new CL format, so maybe the SL would rather have been floated sooner if it had been an attempt to just re-negotiate the CL deal?

    Just some thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  15. I think it more likely most of the owner groups are that remote from the reality of football, viewing it from afar through the prism of a balance sheet, that the idea of any backlash simply didn't occur to them.
     
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  16. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    All European competitions are a money making exercise for the clubs and Uefa. It should be returned to the original format of a straight knockout competition with unseeded draws. I hate the fact that the European games take priority over domestic competitions and games cannot be scheduled at the same time. It is already biased towards the regular participants, the ESL was just cutting Uefa out of the money pit.

    But it will not change and I will just have to live with hating it.
     
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  17. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Spot on imo. From a purely business perspective, European football has a lot of expansion possibilities. The increasing wealth in China and the existing wealth and increasing interest in the Middle East and the US provides a massive untapped market.

    But, as we have seen, to maximise that market you would need to take out the essence of the game that makes it special in the first place. The owners of these clubs didn't get that. Hopefully they do now or they should get out of club ownership for good.
     
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  18. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I am a tiny bit conflicted. The majority of me was as outraged as everyone else by the whole concept of the ESL and the implications it had for the game overall and I was delighted when it imploded in spectacular fashion. However, there was also a part of me that was managing to push all my worries to one side and be a little bit excited at the prospect of the Premier League without the “big 6”.
     
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It does make me chuckle how Carragher says FSG will be no longer welcome at Anfield and will have to sell up.

    Look at the success they have had recently. A return to that will see them back as heroes I’m sure and this will be forgotten about by the vast majority.

    As for the Glazers and Kroenke - they own from afar anyway, they won’t care. They will only sell when the rules change and massive dividends are no longer allowed to be paid to themselves.

    Levy is a company puppet for Joe Lewis and ENIC. He can just be sacked and replaced if needs be - but I doubt that. He doesn’t seem bothered about not being liked.

    Sheikh Mansour and Abramovich have nothing to worry about. They will have execs below them who can be seen as the fall guys whilst doing some bizarre lap of honour because they were the first to walk away.
     
  20. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    This was all about money, why do clubs need money and where does their money go? Wages and transfer fees.

    FPP is not fit for purpose, the simple solution for these clubs is proper reform across all major leagues with proper salary caps introduced.

    No one league has wanted to consider it before because it would make their product/club inferior to all the others.

    Instead they’ve consistently shot themselves in the foot by driving their costs up year after year handing out stupid contracts to players.

    That is one way for them to get on top of this situation once and for all, they need to bite the bullet and all come together in agreement to implement it across all the major leagues on the same basis.

    If these Americans can’t get the predictably on their income they want, then at least get it on their outgoings?
     
  21. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame First Year Pro

    The Premier League is run according to UEFA and FIFA regulations, one of which is that clubs may not participate in competitions that are not sanctioned by the official governing bodies. Even the pre-season International Champions Cup tournaments are properly sanctioned events.
     
  22. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Woodward already seems to have taken the role of fall guy for the Glazers.
     
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  23. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Surely the clubs that signed up to the SL would have been aware of that though.

    Maybe any contracts they've signed have only stipulated their "intention" to play in the tournament in a way which could be argued means that they have not yet officially "entered" the tournament (thus did not yet violate the FA/UEFA regulations). For sure they have not yet already broken the rule of having "played" in an unsanctioned competition.
     
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Although being an ex-JP Morgan associate, I imagine Woodward’s prints are suitably all over the contract to make him more than just a stooge for the real culprits.
     
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  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I don’t see how you could make it apply to the 6 clubs and not the rest of the other 86. But a suitable punishment would be to tell these clubs to pay off their debt within a certain timeframe.
     
  26. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    How lucky we are to have a populist government. (I've never said that before.)
     
  27. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Does anyone know whether the Spanish and Italian governments have reacted similarly (although they will be more constrained by EU law)? I don’t think I have read anything about that.
     
  28. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    JWH apologising and saying it would’ve never gone ahead without the support of the fans.... yeah right mate.
     
  29. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Aren't Real Madrid basically the Spanish government's football arm? Can't see them being too fussed. Plus it seems the ESL was incorporated in Spain and it was a Spanish commercial court the ESL lawyers went to in order to get an injunction barring FIFA or UEFA from taking measures to stop the league coming into being. Quite what a Spanish court's jurisdiction over FIFA and UEFA is wasn't clear, but I imagine the aim was to force the matter through to the European Court of Justice in the fullness of time.
     
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  30. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    I think the same, but the problem is there is a big 6. They already have too much control on the game so most people were happy to see them go to allow a reset.

    There have always been successful sides who won things, but in recent years the number of clubs with a chance of winning things has become concentrated into a small group.
     
  31. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    The ESL is a great idea and I hope it will continue. Real Madrid Barcelona and Juventus playing each other every week, with the winner proclaimed World Champions.
     
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  32. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I don’t think that’s quite true. Liverpool fans have always attributed their successes to the players and especially the manager. Like the fans of other ‘big’ clubs they expect theirs to be extremely well funded in order to compete at the top level, whoever the owners are. However they are also very good at understanding who the real villains are and not budging on that view: remember the campaign against The Sun after Hillsborough, which continues to this day. Whether FSG can be ‘hounded out’ remains to be seen but the fans will continue to hate them. Man U fans anti-Glazer stance largely faded away, but I don’t think the same will happen at Liverpool.
     
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  33. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I don’t have the same expectation but we shall see. FSG have pumped money in, improved Anfield and brought glory. I don’t see that in a similar way to their fanbase hatred of The S*n - as the newspaper never provided them with anything positive beforehand...FSG have.

    The Glazers have left Old Trafford to rust and rot and they are in a worse position as a club than when they arrived.

    All of the fanbases of these clubs won’t forget - but I do think some of them have means too be appeased by the owners. I think City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs ownership can come back from this. Spurs on slightly shakier ground I guess. The ownership of United and Arsenal though is doomed - but they don’t attend games or seem to care about them anyway so I doubt much will change there either.

    They will all announce changes at board level I suspect as those who attended the PL meetings previously will no longer be trusted. But owners selling up? Can’t really see it happening. Changes at Chairman/CEO level only. If it was us, I wouldn’t expect Gino to sell up and walk - but I bet Duxbury would be told to move on for example.

    This is for everyone to keep the same energy up and force real change. But I’m sceptical that this won’t just fade away over time. You can tell already that the PL are hand-wringing in their response and don’t want to punish them.
     
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  34. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Could we offer to fill one of the places available in the Super League now the 'big 6' have decided they don't fancy it?
     
  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It would certainly be helpful to have a half-decent league to let the U23s and players recovering from injury to get a run out in.
     

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