I ask you, as I ask many, what’s the alternative to stopping a further 7/10? And don’t give me any nonsense about negotiation with an organisation that has no intention of peace?
how do you stop the 1000s of rockets raining down on Israel on a daily basis? Just rely on the iron dome and accept that’s all ok? the only way to guarantee peace is to eradicate Hamas capabilities in Gaza The Global Imams Council condemns in the strongest possible terms the barbaric actions of Hamas, which have resulted in the brutal execution of six innocent hostages, among them a dual American citizen, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, in a tunnel in the Gaza city of Rafah. We are deeply saddened and outraged by these heinous murders, which violate all principles of humanity, religious teachings, and international law. The targeting and brutalization of civilians, especially those who are defenseless and held against their will, are acts of unmitigated evil. These actions represent a gross violation of the sacred laws of conflict as ordained by all major faith traditions, including Islam, which categorically prohibit the harming of innocents. Furthermore, these atrocities contravene international humanitarian laws, including the Geneva Conventions, which are designed to protect civilians during times of war. We hold Hamas directly responsible for the deaths and suffering of all innocent lives lost since October 7, as their actions have not only brought death and destruction upon the region but have also led to immense suffering for the Palestinian people. Hamas’s reckless and inhumane tactics, using civilians as shields and exploiting their plight, have only escalated the cycle of violence and undermined the cause of justice and peace. Moreover, we recognize that the regime in Iran shares equal responsibility for these tragedies, as its continued support and endorsement of Hamas’s actions perpetuate violence and instability in the region. We stand with all victims of this conflict, regardless of nationality, ethnicity, or religion, and we extend our deepest condolences to their families. Our prayers are with those who have lost loved ones and with those still living under the shadow of fear and uncertainty. It is our hope and prayer that justice will prevail and that the dignity and sanctity of human life will be upheld above all else. We call upon the international community, all religious leaders, and people of conscience to unite against these acts of terror and to work tirelessly towards a future where peace, justice, and respect for all human life are the foundations of our shared existence. May God guide us to a path of peace and grant solace to the hearts of the bereaved. The Global Imams Council (GIC) Issued at The Islamic Seminary of Najaf, Iraq.
Yes, yes we know all this. But it's still the IDF doing things that they know will result in the dismemberment of babies, women, children, the elderly. You can blather on about how horrible Hamas are and I will agree with you 100%. Utterly not the point. Israel has created a never-ending Hamas. Unless you wipe out the whole of Gaza and the West Bank and spend the next thousand years suffering the attacks of those around the region and world whose families have been reduced to mincemeat. How many would be too many? Come on out and say it.
This isn’t a game. You write like you are 12 years old! I’m happy to engage with you but don’t get juvenile in your writing by trying to coax snap statements you seem utterly confused about the situation. At first you said it was absolutely right for Israel to go into Gaza to dismantle Hamas. Now you are saying it’s about Hamas is not the point which is bewildering at best. To ensure Israel’s future safety Israel has to disable Hamas entire network. Stop their ability to import arms and stop their freedom of movement. If they don’t, with Iran flexing its muscle and gifting Hamas more powerful weapons then they have ever possessed, there is a real risk of Israel’s annihilation. Which is the Hamas end game the Hamas network is underground. Built purposely below schools and hospitals. The best way to eradicate the tunnel network is from the air the alternative is to not do anything and allow the rockets to be fired over and the multiple suicide bombs and run the risk of the next attack being even worse than Oct 7th
The problem is that you assume that Hamas can be bombed into oblivion. As the map shows, just about every inch of Gaza has been bombed yet there appears to be no end to the conflict. And even if it did end with Hamas forcibly dismantled, how long to you think that peace will last? Will Israel be safe? You may be right. Perhaps those quotes from Palestinians being disillusioned with Hamas is an indication that a popular uprising will bring the "armed struggle" (as the terrorists would view it) to an end. Personally I don't think that will happen without undermining the "cause" behind Hamas. There needs to be a carrot with the stick. Whilst the current regime in Israel continues to rule out any "two state solution" and doesn't have any end game beyond destroying Hamas i.e. one that recognises the rights of Palestinians to have a homeland, I fear this conflict will go on indefinitely. Now I know that you will say that Israel have already worked towards that. That Hamas and other bordering nations, will not rest until Israel is destroyed. But, from my experience in Northern Ireland, it's only a small minority that think like that. Once you have shown the majority a way to a settled, peaceful outcome then ideology becomes less alluring. Personally I think that has become a lot harder now. But, if those voices that you quoted are a realistic sample of the thoughts of the average Palestinian, perhaps Israel could push for new elections in Gaza, with the support of the UN, and see if Hamas can be removed from office. Obviously it won't stop their terrorist activities but it might produce a government that Israel can deal with. I understand that you believe that there is no other solution than the path Israel is on i.e. bombing Hamas into oblivion. But I don't think it is a solution. There is no sign that it is working. There is a genuine danger that it will just produce resentment and a new generation of terrorists. And there is a real risk that it is going to provoke a wider conflict in the region. It's also severely testing Israel's international standing amongst it's allies. Personally I think Israel needs to grab any cease fire agreement it can right now and reassess it's path to peace and security before it's too late.
I don’t disagree with much you say. I have always believed the only path to peace is the removal of Hamas, placing a more moderate leadership into Gaza that Israel can negotiate with, a better future for the residents of Gaza through a 2 state solution with huge investment into the region with the money going into the right places rather than Hamas leadership pockets, the removal of Netanyahu and a more moderate Israeli leadership who concentrate on the future of the country and looks to build alliances with the wider region the two issues of the above is what needs to happen to force Hamas out (something that I repeatedly have said from page one will be something that will be unappetising to all) and the fact that Iran don’t want these alliances hence them stirring up the trouble with Hezbollah
Roll up, roll up, buy your super secure electrical essentials from www.definitelynotmossad.com Prices are high though. Guaranteed to cost you an arm and a leg.
I honestly think it's a bit hilarious. Bunch of hezbollah terrorists get blown up by their pagers. What next? ISIS all get attacked by their Tamagochis?
It is, except there has also been significant harm to civilians, including children and we don’t know what the consequences will be.
I suspect if Hezbollah had carried this out, causing dozens of deaths, including civilians and children and thousands of injuries, we’d be calling it ‘terrorism.’ But sure, there is no easy way to fight a war. Does this bring Israel closer to a victory or the region closer to peace? Or does it simply enrage and widen the conflict further?
do me a favour moose. This is about as targeted attack in a war that you can possibly get. Far more targeted then the thousands of rockets that are fired daily from Lebanon into Northern Israel Israel is fighting a war. Against terrorism. In a region that only understands strength and does not engage in negotiation. Hamas started the war on Oct 7th. Hezbollah then decided to include themselves in the war by firing rockets into Israel rather then staying neutral
I think that's a false equivalence. Despite the trendy definitions of things, Israel is a legitimate state and the IDF a national army. Hezbollah is designated a terrorist organisation by most rational thinkers. The people who had these devices had them for the explicit purpose of communicating about how to attack Israel. Does it help the situation? Probably not, but then I'm not sure what does help a situation between two diametrically opposed, ideologically driven sides where there's fanaticism on both sides.
What is it about being a state that provides a blank cheque for brutality? By your own words, a blank cheque for fanatics.
you call it brutal by trying to create mayhem within a terror organisation that have been firing rockets continuously into Israel that causes minimal civilian harm? I hear your historic points on Gaza but anybody that tries to justify Hezbollahs existence and aren’t in awe of how Israel has disrupted their terror organisation in this way is so far gone that there is no point in discussing with
How has he justified Hezbollah’s existence? And why do we have to be ‘in awe’ of Israel? I agree it’s clever, but I don’t think ‘awe’ is an appropriate word whenever people are killed, whoever they might be.
a terrorist, whose pure intention is to kill anybody who has opposite views to them, loses the right for me to have any empathy for them. So yes I’m in awe at what the Mossad has done. Original and ingenious
But that wasn’t what you said. It wasn’t about your views on the tactic. You said others had to share them. You said (#1034) that anybody who was not ‘in awe’ of the strategy is ‘far gone’ and not worth debating with. I agree that it’s ingenious and potentially reasonably targeted. But I’m not ‘in awe’ of it. I don’t think Israel deserves unqualified admiration. I am concerned that it will escalate the situation, so I find it problematic. I don’t think that makes me ‘anti-Israel’ or not worth debating with. If you think that, then frankly it’s you who is being closed-minded.
That cuts both ways. In many places across the World people are saying that anyone who tries to justify Israel’s colossal slaughter in Gaza is ‘far gone’ and beyond discussion. Equally unhelpful. A cycle of violence is perpetuated by people being convinced that their own violence is justified. At some point there must be restraint and negotiation or it continues. Maiming hundreds maybe thousands of civilians in these attacks and then gloating about how clever it is simply continues that. Israel is widening the fronts for this war. Is it to be a forever war? What’s the endgame here?
it’s simple. Hezbollah..bad. Want to kill all Arabs, Jews, Christian’s etc living in Israel. They have fired thousands and thousands of rockets into Northern Israel to involve themselves in a war that had nothing to do with them (bar from having the same pay masters). Israel wants to disrupt their entire network and do it by somehow managing a shipment of electronic equipment destined for the terrorists and in most cases implementing enough explosive equipment to harm the terrorist…I’m in awe of that but happy to agree to not agree.
maybe for Hezbollah to stop firing rockets into Israel? oh and maybe for Hamas to hand back the hostages oh and maybe for all sides to just want peace
I’m not sure you understand my point. I don’t think it’s acceptable to tell others that they have to support Israeli tactics, or they are not worth talking to. That’s totalitarianism. You can be in awe of it of course, but don’t require me to be.
why? the majority of the world seems to tell me that I shouldn’t support Israeli tactics and many are taking to the streets with pro Hamas signs after what they did on Oct 7th.
So that gives you the right to tell others (even those who have not taken these actions) what they should think? Two wrongs don’t make a right. That makes you just as bad as them. To be clear, I’m not being anti-Israel, but I live in a democracy and I am entitled to express reservations if I feel them. Which I do.
of course you can as have many on this thread. But you’re picking fights for the sake of it. IMHO anybody that looks at Hamas or Hezbollah as freedom fighters are wrong. They are terrorists. So will happily argue that case I am in awe of the ingenuity of Mossad and what they’ve carried out. The fear they will have caused the terrorists. And the mass disruption they’ve caused an army that’s being bombarding Israel with rockets constantly im not in awe of any civilian lives that have been lost. If that’s how you interpreted my message then I apologise
You’re still missing the point, It’s not about what you think of the strategy. Of course you are perfectly entitled to that view. But in #1034 you said that ‘anybody’ who wasn’t ‘in awe’ of the current tactics (which I agree are ingenious) was too ‘far gone’ to debate with. In essence you were saying that everyone had to agree with Israel’s tactics or they weren’t worth the time of day. If that’s not what you meant, then fine, we can leave it there. But I don’t accept that I have to agree with Israel’s strategy just because you say so,
“anybody that tries to justify Hezbollahs existence and aren’t in awe of how Israel has disrupted their terror organisation in this way is so far gone that there is no point in discussing with” Is what I said If you justifying hezbollas existence then I presume that you also justify Al Qaeda and all the other terrorist cells. If so then there is no point me engaging with you Personally I’m in awe of how Israel disrupted said terror organisation whilst totally minimalising innocent casualties in a way that wouldn’t be out of character with a bond movie but I accept that’s not everybody’s opinion right are we now done?
Well, that wasn’t clear, was it? I read that as two separate points, not as one. No, I don’t support Hezbollah. The point (again) wasn’t about what you are ‘in awe’ of, it’s about what others think. I think the tactics are clever, but I am concerned that they will escalate the situation, and I don’t think thsr makes me ‘far gone’.
