Well we don’t really know, as all transfers are undisclosed. Pussetto was one of the rare deals where they actually quoted the fee. But that’s not even the point really. Pussetto is supposedly our player, but never rocks up to pre-season training and is playing for Udinese even though nothing has been announced. Surely the least the club could do is announce he’s been sent out on loan again.
We're never seeing the money for him again but Udinese have at least been paying his wages. Surely his loan contract is expired now though, so he's back to being our player but playing in friendlies for another club just like Danny Rose. Unless we've transferred his registration over and not bothered to announce it...
What fees did we get for Gerri and Peyrera? Both significantly more valuable players than Samir/FS/WTE combined.
They're individually undisclosed but in due course we have to report the total value as an related party transaction in the annual accounts. So with a bit of a delay we can work out which way around the cash flows. This was for the year ending 30 June 2021: The £7.1m in 2019/20 was presumably Pussetto.
Success was another where we spent £13m to sign him from Granada then sold him to Udinese for around £2m. So in recent years they’ve certainly benefitted more from the relationship than Watford, although in the early years their unwanted players really upgraded our team.
Actually, the club never directly disclosed the Pussetto fee (except in a footnote 2 years later in the accounts. It was reported in the media just as the some other undisclosed fees were. A quick Google shows Leventhal highlighting that Samir joined for free and though I couldn’t find express confirmation re Troost Ekong and Sierralta I believe this was communicated by media outlets one way or another at the time and these transfers have been cited as evidence that “Pozzo doesn’t pay transfer fees in the Championship” too. I don’t know why people get worked up over undisclosed fees. This is how the vast majority of English clubs report their fees, officially. The only times clubs officially disclose transfer fees is because a) the club is publicly listed so have to show the amount in public filings b) the (foreign) club’s governing body requires it or c) a club has activated a set release clause. £26m for the two combined (though I believe Pereyra was more than Deulofeu oddly). Certainly those players are better than Samir, Sierralta and WTE. But we were remunerated and didn’t just hand them off for free.
Do you really think Success was worth more than £2m or so when left for Udinese? He certainly wasn’t worth £13m. We definitely overpaid for a potentially promising player when we signed him for Granada but I think the fee is approximate to (if not in excess of) his market value at the time of sale (which followed 2 goals in four years for us).
The point is we owned Granada at the time though, so the £13m was another example of money lost at our expense to the benefit of another group club, and then Gino’s pocket when he sold them.
Without going into granular details, I think it’s clear that we do a lot of very strange deals. Where we buy players we don’t need, pay over the odds, then sell for a loss within a year. We’ve done that quite a lot over the past 2 or 3 years, which coincides with Giaretta’s involvement. Personally I don’t think Gino invests his own money into the club any more. He cut it off at £70m and is now taking a healthy interest rate from it. Any signings we now make is actually from Watford money. So the “one wallet” thing doesn’t really apply anymore, if it ever did.
What interest rate is he taking? Genuinely interested. I would have thought the internal loans are interest free. I agree that we make odd deals. My argument is that I don’t think the case that we’re being exploited by Udinese stacks up to scrutiny. I think the club is just mismanaged.
How would they be interest free? Gino hasn’t actually put any of his own money into the club, he’s borrowed everything he’s lent us, which would have an interest rate attached to it, which he’d obviously want to cover and more.
Not sure Success was worth £2m when we sold him. We'd have been happy to get him off the payroll to a Barnsley for that price. Udinese didn't get the £13m we paid, and one could argue that he genuinely dropped significantly in value under our ownership.
Wasn't the Success fee something to do with securing a work permit for him? Don't remember much complaints about it at the time, for a really promising young player.
That’s fine. It was in the deep delve on the financials I think The Athletic did last year. So this is where I think we are know. Gino is taking a tidy sum on interest and is leaving us to our own devices and has done for the past 3 years, hence why we’re going backwards as a club. In a way, I can’t be angry about that. He is all business and found a way to make money. Watford do need outside investment, just like all clubs, in order to be competitive. Now we have to fund our own way, it’s getting harder and harder being competitive and I think we’re all seeing that reflected on the pitch.
Yep it was. Success was a genuine example of a player just dramatically devaluing over the years we owned him. Lucky to get £2m back. I have been critical of the Pussetto nonsense but getting £5m for Masina if true just about offsets to be honest. All the Bayat crap on the other hand……
At least Gino is providing some funds ! How does his rate (presume unsecured) compare to the 3rd party loans (with security)?
Everything Gino has lent to the club he has borrowed himself, so the rate is at least the same or worse as the commercial rate he’s borrowing at.
Sure makes sense but how does the rate compare to the secured 3rd party loans. Not unfair if his rate is a little above those given Gino is presumably unsecured ? Given it's not expected that those loans will be repaid it seems fair to at least make them interest bearing, as you say, to cover his interest cost ?
Weirdly, we signed Success a few weeks after Gino had sold Granada to the Chinese owner. I presume the sale was completed beforehand just not announced, or alternatively reflected in the sale price though.
Thanks As at June'21 Gino-or rather his Luxembourg registered entity-had lent c£51m to Hornets Investment Ltd "HIL" who are the parent of Watford Football Club "club". Interest at 2.5% was charged but not paid in cash so " Gino" had a loan that increased by £0.5m. No security is shown as being given to secure that loan. In turn HIL lent £70m to the club as the then lender Capital XXIII ltd had lent £20m to HIL as well -they charged 5.35% and were a secured lender. There were also loans of £9.5m from Close brothers at 5.5%, an unsecured loan of £32m also from Close at 6.675% and £24m from MCQuarie Bank in respect of loans for players transferred to Udinese at rates of 6% and 7.1%. Interest all paid on these loans. Summary -2.5% for being an unsecured creditor ranking after other secured creditors is pretty cheap-he is (was) also not taking the interest out. I can't see how Gino has increased his loan to £70m based on filed accounts and no direct communication from the club Subsequent to June '21 the club took out an estimated £50m from Maquarie partly to redeem the £20m from Capital XXIII and lately another loan secured by 23/24 parachute money.
At least Masina proved useful to us at times, and will probably do a job for Udinese, Pussetto apart from one goalline clearance never looked like doing anything for us, in either the Prem or the Championship
Never seen a professional footballer look so terrified/confused at being on the pitch as Pussetto away at Newport County in the League Cup. Apart from maybe when we tried to play that wet wipe Neuton in the Championship at centre back. That was a laugh.
