Lots of calls after the David Amess tragedy for a ‘kinder’ politics. Notwithstanding that as yet we have no idea whether the killer paid any attention to UK politics (it seems more likely this is a terrorist event) the calls for it are impossible to escape as is the hypocrisy. ‘However, one change that must happen is a removal of the toxic language in politics.’ Says the Daily Express. Oh that Daily Express. The Daily Mail is shocked. Oh that Daily Mail. The same one that pictured Jeremy Corbyn in a coffin suggesting the Labour Party kill him off. Or came out with this belter when it didn’t get its own way. No one seems to ask where the hatred comes from? People blithely and stupidly blame ‘social media’ in the same way you might blame a pen for a hate letter. It is inevitable in a hugely class divided society that people will be impoverished and angry about their own or others circumstances. That to save its position, those at the top will redirect and encourage that anger towards others away from themselves. That is what the Culture War is. Under such circumstances of a Class and Culture War there is not going to be peaceful discourse. The idea is absurd. Ok, maybe better rules could apply within the confines of the club of Parliament. Lefties can applaud Ken Clarke or right wing people can eke out something they liked that Tony Benn once said. But it will only scratch the surface. In any case, none of the politicians who spoke up this weekend were ready to put down their weapons. Priti Patel, who no doubt gets a sackful of abuse, wasn’t ready to condemn the vilification of asylum seekers or the culture war against her Labour colleagues. She’s never even called out the nationalist excesses on her own side that abuse her and Sajid Javid on the Tories’ own Facebook page. Instead her rhetoric encourages their obsession with immigration. Maybe if politicians decided between them to have a ‘war effort’ on poverty, showed by their every action a commitment to serving the public, rather than wealthy donors, they would be held in higher esteem. But the newspapers and the think tanks, the political commentators etc would poison that attempt on behalf of their bosses. And consequently our politicians are not even going to try.
You forgot to mention that when Angela Rayner described Tories as ‘a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute pile of banana republic, Etonian scum’ at a Labour party conference fringe meeting she was cheered. Strangely Keir Starmer chose not to sack her
Sure, no one is innocent. That’s what a war is like. You forgot to mention…well how much time do you have?
This seems like a massive piece of deflection, discussing the inflamatory language, pointing out its use by news papers rather than politicians, despite choosing not to highlight the leftwing press's condemnation of Brexit and Brexiteers as racist xenophobic half wits, and then ends up saying they should be looking after the poor. Using social care as an excuse to block any negative response to the subject of the thread is extremely unfortunate. As such, it is pretty clear that this is the first thread to go off topic in the OP itself. Obviously the intent, when an argument against is made which is not easy to counter, is to say "but what about the poor people, you are ignoring the poor people." That aside. It would be great if the left wing press stopped denegrating people on the right, and if the right wing press stopped denegrating people on the left, simply because they don't like their views. Some of the headlines above are dreadful, others are actually valid subjects which it should be fair to highlight and to engender discussion, particularly those on immigration, and to be fair, even the left wing press have used similar rhetoric in headlines to at least three or four of the examples given. They are stating facts, and as such can hardly be considered inflamatory, unless it is by people who would rather hide the truth of the matter. When it comes down to it, there is only one politician who has used truly inflamatory language to define her political opponents, and she is the deputy leader of the Labour Party, and she spoke out after Jo Cox's horrendous murder to call for more moderate language. Here is her statement on the tories in full... “We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile … banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian … piece of scum,” “I held back a little” Can you show an example of a senior tory MP at the very head of the party using the same type of dehumanising laguage? No. This thread is simply an attempt to head off criticisms of Rayner. It's not going to work. Her invective has no precedent, and her virtue signalling and hypocrisy following Jo Cox's death is layed bare. Defending her in the light of Amess's death would be yet more proof that Labour is the nasty out of touch party. She doesn't have to walk, but she can show that she understands that she was right about this kind of language when she spoke after Cox's death, and let herself down at conference when she made her disgusting comments, which can fairly be considered to have been a contribution to the death of Amess, whether it is considered a terrorist attack or not.
Hypocrisy is not an exclusive trait of the left or the right, as incidents like Mr Amess's murder and the response to it by some people demonstrates only too well. I share your disgust with Angela Rayner's words and agree that she let herself down, but I think you're very wrong to suggest her comments were a contributory factor in Mr Amess's murder
I am not saying they were, or were not. I am saying it is fair, considering her heart felt virtue signalling following Jo Cox's murder, that her opinion on that matter be taken into account when it comes to considering influences on the death of Amess. It is her assertion that there is a causal relationship. Just saying she should be judged by her good words, and if she is, she can hardly complain.
I think the only mistake Lloyd made was to suggest that Rayner's comments were ignored. Seeing as she is the only MP that could be described as "a hypocrite calling for kinder politics", it is clear that nothing was forgotten, but instead that what was intended from this thread was to, some might say, hypocritcally defend the hypocrite who called for knder politics, and then said... “We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile … banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian … piece of scum,” “I held back a little” She is the only MP guilty of such hypocrisy. Much like the Labour MPs who defended Claudia Webbe by implying she was being targetted for being black, when she was charged and then convicted of harassment of a woman, so soon after their virtue signalling on violence against women. The saddest thing is that it is entirely predictable and wholly obvious, but at least no one has to put fake words into anyone's mouth to demonstrate it is happening.
Yes, very amusing. The murder was obviously nothing to do with Angela Rayner, but good gag. You going to own up to your side’s sins? You going to admit the Etonians and their allies encourage it?
I wouldn’t hold your breath. The Brexit mob didn’t pause for an instant when Jo Cox was killed. The same people have not a care in the World about the Capital Riot. Just make up wild conspiracies about it. Nothing is going to shock anyone out of this. That’s why it’s only hypocrites calling for a kinder politics. Tomorrow’s chip paper.
However… There probably are some simple things to drag the worst behaviour into the light and implement the law. Troll farms must be eliminated, as must anon accounts (not the same as having an avatar). It’s bad enough what real people want to say without having thousands of (often non UK) accounts repeating the hate. Anyone else?
Gag? Where? I'm sure if the deputy leader of the Tory party had described members of the shadow cabinet as a 'bunch of woke, tree hugging, jew-hating, comprehensive school dykes' or something similarly insulting he wouldn't still be in his post
No that’s the PM you daft so and so. Have you not paid any attention to the last 10 years? To what Johnson’s track record is?
A suggestion that democracy be halted because of the death of an innocent party. Hmmm. All the left would have to do to get their own way in any given situation would be to kill one of gheir own and nlame it on the right. Interesting take, and very compassionate.
Ah. Yet anti semetic, racist, misogynytic (not even had a woman leader let alone PM), supporters of women harrassing MPs, tories are scum Labour have no track record worth bothering about.
As opposed to those still in post after bullying junior members of staff or just simply lying to the public? Not on very solid ground here Lloyd. The Tories have sunk standards in public life to subterranean levels.
I fear this thread will lead to moderators getting in a tiz over the next few days! Opening post was too long to read for my primitive attention span (although Moosey put some pictures in for me) so I assume it was about media super villains mind controlling bigot voters or some such?
Why is everyone so full of hate Jumbo? There’s the question for you. I’m simply saying there’s no point people who are adding to it wringing their hands about it. And my OP is quite straightforward and you’re a clever chap.
Think Brexit was divisive. On my side I’m the most tranquil I have been for many years. Think it is to do with Watford’s squad being so bobbins that there is no need to get wound up.
A question you may want to ask yourself. How much do you love the Government, Brexiteers, Me, ZZ, Lloydd. I guarantee you that none of us hate you. Don't assume that everyone feels the same way about you as you feel about them. Or you could ask Angella Rayner, or Claudia Webbe. One hates the tories so much she wants to call them all the names under the sun, and the other thinks women who upset her aught to get an acid bath and have their nude pictures circulated. Sure, other people are bad, but what about those two uprecedented and unique examples of senior politicians?
Come along now - do you honestly think someone is going to read the Mail and decide to rub out a GP?!!
Not before they’ve collected all 10 tokens for their Princess Di full colour memorial poster they’re not.
Biggest Trolls of all, the national newspapers exempted from the Online Harms Bill. Nor is it surprising that the government’s forthcoming Online Harms Bill – which has now been opportunistically tied to Amess’ death – takes care to specifically exempt news publishers and the comments on their websites from the new powers. The publishers lobbied for it and the Government rolled over; the 40 meetings between top News Corp executives, including Murdoch himself, and ministers in the first 14 months of Boris Johnson’s administration really paid off. https://bylinetimes.com/2021/10/19/...p5jXo0P9z8aCjRitIwZayNyLM4u2dRS3XLpCvpqgnlF28
Good point. Pity you had to politicise it again. The left wing press are equally guilty, and no doubt supported Murdoch in his lobying for press exemption, and that is assuming they did no lobying of their own.
Julia Hartley Brewer having her say on Colin Powell. And it’s funny this one, because she and her supporters always want race mentioned when something bad happens and the person is not white. How do you please these folk?
Well let’s see. This poster was the first to mention the assumed race of the man arrested after David Amess’s murder, and the only person to refer to him as a Somali, despite him being British, as mentioned in every report describing him, even down to the Mail. Ironic, because that would seem to place him in the ‘she and her supporters’ category of race obsessed individuals, as he defines it, who wish to ignore it one moment, and shout it from the roof tops the next. I don't support her.
East African Asians anyone? If people want to criticise racism in others, they should be prepared to face up to the far more stark and unpleasant racism of those a little closer to home. Perhaps, rather than complain when others remind them of what they previously said, the most fearless of anti racists on here could reflect on their own words, and perhaps recognise that stupid things are sometimes said. If they are so unforgiving of Boris’s folly, perhaps they should understand why others are equally unforgiving. This is a serious and fair point. I hope it is not forbidden to mention East African Asians on here now.
