F1/ Formula E/ Motorsport Thread

Much as I hate to say it, F1 is a team sport and a business. There's more money in it for the team championship and under current regulations what Red Bull did is legal.

From a fan's point of view it's disappointing however if there were regulations against team orders, they would always find ways round it.

Webber has to grin and bear it I'm afraid. It's highly unlikely at his age he will be offered a higher paying 1st choice role in another team.

It seems as if the race nowse of McLaren has disappeared. Hamilton;s pace would have had him challenging for 1st if he had been fuelled enough, then again the added weight will have slowed him. Button drove brilliantly and was let down.

Massa Hamilton at the end was good, both desperate for the points and I don't see an ills with their bumping, racing incidents imho.

 

Interesting. My dad held a similar view to your good self on Sunday evening, but by the time he got home from work on Monday, he had taken a complete U-turn. As clear as it is to see both sides of the argument on this one - my personal opinion is that what happened was absolutely disgraceful.

Most important to this is what one Christian Horner came out with last season following the Ferrari team orders incident last season in Hockenheim:

- http://www.f1pulse.com/news/Horner_...-2010-july-news_20100725_79/news_article.aspx

Horner here manages to proclaim that Red Bull 'let their drivers race'. To me, I think looking at that, if you looked in the dictionary for the words 'Hypocrite' or 'Hypocrisy', then the definitions would be listed as 'Christan Horner' & 'See events at Silverstone 2011'.

In the same article, Horner proclaims that in the incident between Massa & Alonso:

"The drivers should've been allowed to race. Massa did the better job. He was in the lead."

Surely then in the instance of Sunday, Vettel had done a 'better job' up until 5 laps from the end, but in the laps that would inevitably be the telling ones, Webber had done a better job? Additionally, if the Ferrari's should have been allowed to race last season in a manner which Horner was so adamant about, then why were the Red Bulls not allowed to race?

Yes, this season it is legal for team orders to be implemented, but is it right at the half way point in the season? There was no doubt that Vettel's tyres had gone off in the final stages of Sunday's race, and that Webber was certainly the faster car. Silverstone is not a narrow track - plenty of space on the Wellington straight or the Hangar straight where a clean pass could have been made with no risk of 'both cars ending up in the fence'. Essentially, they were fighting for 3-points, something that wouldn't exactly eat into Vettel's WDC lead, nor extend it by any significant amount, so no, it probably wouldn't be wise to throw it all away for that - but they are the best drivers out there for a reason - if Horner can't trust them to get something like that done properly, then to me it says a lot about his style of management. Surely he should have said at the start of the season that Vettel was their number 1 driver, especially after the fallout of the 2010 season. But unfortunately for him, no, he still seems to be in denial about the whole thing, even proclaiming that Webber isn't out of the Championship race.

Aimed at Horner: How then is Webber meant to close the gap, if he isn't going to be allowed to pass Vettel? The only way is if he out-qualifies him and wins from lights-to-flag. It's a classic example of Horner losing control once more.

As you pointed out, fans pay to see racing, and they were deprived of that on the final few laps this weekend in this instance, though the Massa & Hamilton thing would have made up for some of it.

Finally, what sequence of Horner's words would have caused more of a rift?

- "Mark, maintain the gap."

OR

- "Seb, Mark is faster than you. I repeat, Mark is faster than you".

Both would have ensured the 2nd & 3rd place were secure, but surely, the truth would have prevailed, and the right result would have been secured, no?

 

Alot of people have been bringing Horner's reaction last year. What we need to remember is that they were "illegal" last season.
Also, I made the point to a Daily Mail reporter on Twitter that it was probably best that both drivers finished. I think we all remember Istanbul last year.

 

Obviously everyone points to what happened in Istanbul, and that turned out to be a silly waste of points, so of course you want both of your drivers to finish, and certainly not take each other into the fence.

But surely if the drivers have learned anything from what happened last year, they would ensure that that didn't happen again.

I know for a fact that Webber wouldn't sit there and accept being told to back off of Vettel when there's valuable points up for grabs, which he believed he could get, and it turns out he probably would have got them. So rather than having a frustrated Aussie hunting down SV, why not just instruct Vettel to let him past.

I would find it very hard to believe that this '1-year contract extension' for Webber will come into fruition now, whether Red Bull want it to happen or not. He isn't going to want to sit there playing second fiddle to Vettel for another season.

As they did last season at Silverstone, with the new front-wing controversy, they have done themselves more harm than good in terms of personal matters at Silverstone this year.

 

great race by hamilton today.

 

Was nice to see Vettel nowhere near the podium.

I'd have thought Alonso would be punished for running out of fuel/not getting car back to pits.

 

Today showed Vettel may not be that good in terms of 'wheel to wheel' driving. He made many many mistakes and he couldn't over take Massa - it was only his teams quick pit-stop that meant he overtook Massa. I guess he's so use to leading a race that he's a bit rusty when it comes to overtaking!

 

Was a great race - Nurburgring never fails to deliver. Hopefully it's the start of a Vettel slide as it was indeed nice to see the podium with him not on it for a change.

I'm not his biggest fan at all, although I did think he came across really well when he was on Top Gear a few weeks back.

Today confirmed what most of us thought we already knew, in the sense he may not be that good at 'wheel-to-wheel' racing. For example at Spa last year when he managed to park his car in the side of Button's car, clearing Button out of the race. Or, at Silverstone a few weeks back, Webber/Alonso had breezed past Hamilton out on the circuit in the early/middle part of the race, and yet, when it was Vettel's turn, he couldn't pass him, despite the McLaren's awful pace. In the end, he had to undercut him with the pit-stops.

Of course, if you can stick it on pole, and lead from lights-to-flag, then you don't need to be good at the 'wheel-to-wheel' stuff, however, to say he's rusty at it, when he's never actually consistently displayed ability at performing overtakes on competitive cars, is a bit generous.


However, on another note, Hamilton drove incredibly all weekend and was thoroughly deserving of his win - which was as good as sealed driving around the outside of Alonso on turn 2. The win could easily have gone to all of the top 3 - fantastic race.

Shame for the Championship that Ferrari couldn't have kept Vettel behind Massa, who was overtaken in the pit-lane. Massa had the widest car on the track for a long part of that race. :dismay:

 

Saying Vettel isn't good at being behind or can't overtake is naive. You lot know he was with Toro Rosso for at least 2 seasons right? He did a very good job of overtaking back then, often in a slower car. I believe he finished 8th one season and even managed to get a win.

He's not like Hamilton, who has had one of the best cars handed to him on a plate the second he turned pro.

He was off the pace in qualifying, the race and made numerous mistakes. His mind appears to have been elsewhere, but don't expect him to stay off the podium for much longer.

All that said, it was a very good win for Lewis and an exciting race to the end.

 

I love the fact that Vettel had a terrible race weekend, but still the other guys only took 3 points away from his lead.
This isn't the start of Vettel's downfall. As with every sport people have their off days. This is still Vettel's championship, I'd be very surprised if he lost it.

 

It's all well and good saying he could overtake at Toro Rosso, but that was when they were competing with the cars around them, where reliability is often an issue and the other drivers are perhaps not quite as good as the people at the top end of the sport. Yes, we remember he won at Monza in the wet, and that was a great drive against all odds in what was, at the time, one of the minnow teams in the sport.

There's no point at all making the argument that he didn't have 'the best car handed to him on a plate at the start of his career like Hamilton'. That doesn't matter. What matters now, when he's at the top of the sport, competing with the best drivers, is that it seems he can't race 'wheel-to-wheel', against his rivals, and as well as his rivals. Obviously he could well come and prove me wrong - but he definitely hasn't shown much of that in the last 2 seasons - when Red Bull have had the 'best' car.

So would I. I don't think for one minute he's cracking under the pressure, but it'd be nice to think that he's more aware of the other teams catching up with him.

As I said, he's almost certainly got it wrapped up, but I expect Alonso and Hamilton to close the gap over the remaining races, rather than see it widen. As for Webber's chances... Horner won't let him get close.

 

Free to air coverage of F1 to cease at the end of the season. BBC will only be showing half of the races in a cost cutting exercise. All races are available on Sky Sports.

 

Not good in my view. Once it goes to Sky it'll never come back full time.

 

Yay, adverts during races....

 

I hate sky sports.

 

At least it's not ITV.

 

They have promised no adverts.

To be fair THe BBC coverage is excellent this year, especially with the red button stuff, but I think Sky are way ahead on sports coverage. More importantly the BBC don't broadcast proper bandwidth HD:rant: so I expect good things to come, I just feel sorry for the people that are going to lose their coverage.

 

Don't feel sorry for me. I have principles which mean I don't have any part of the evil empire in my house. I can live without F1.

 

This is terrible! Ucking winkers bskyb *****s! There is literally no live sport on bbc/itv anymore and I can see myself having to fork out the £20 for sky sports each ucking month due to this!

 

**** you sky you ****ing *******s

 

hmm will hamilton have the edge in qualifying tomorrow....i sure hope so.

 

And hopefully it bodes well for Button, who won his first ever F1 race at the Hungaroring.

 

Willl Sky poach the Brundle/Coulthard/Jordan team? They can offer more money.


Like someone said, once it's gone to Sky there's no coming back. Unless of course that no-one watches it anymore and Sky lose interest

 

That's what I find interesting. How will the team of pundits and commentators move with this one? When it switched to BBC from ITV, pretty much all of the team went with the rights, yet, with both Sky & BBC having it next year, i'm intregued as to how it's going to work.

Doubtful, but any chance of some form of partnership between the two on this one? It's a shame, because BBC have got some great coverage going at the moment.

Come on Lewis - stick it on pole.

 

Oh great. Vettel 1st again

 

Deserved in my opinion, though i'd rather not say it.

Should be a good race with Hamilton & Button locking out 2nd and 3rd. Hopefully the McLaren will have the improved race pace that is closer to the Red Bulls like we have seen - and LH still has the extra set of super-softs.

Don't think Webber hitting the wall in FP1 this morning helped his cause, as with the KERs fault in the final session, and Alonso didn't get it done on the final run.

If anyone's going to win tomorrow that isn't SV, i'd be tempted to opt for Button. I'm hoping for a good race anyway. :drinking:

 

Sky need to combine with the BBC. There's no point sending out two teams. Maybe this could start a beautiful working relationship? Maybe not.

 

Button would of won without the rain at the end, as Hamilton had to pit where Button did not. Without the car letting him down in the last 2 races Button would be 2nd in the title standings.

 

Sebastian extends his title lead some more and is straight back on the podium after his poor preformance last week. Wet races always make it a little less predictable, but can people stop underestimating him now?

Another dangerous piece of driving by Hamilton, rightly punished by the stewards. I'm actually concerned he is going to cause a very bad accident. Every driver knows to wait for other cars to pass before turning back around in the road. Its a shame because until then I thought he was driving very well!

Paul Di Resta had another great day, in a few seasons he'll be challenging the big boys for the title.

 

I think the BBC get to choose three first, then SKY choose three, then they alternate choices until they are all shared out, like picking teams in PE.

 

That'll be Monaco, Silverstone and maybe what ever race is first on the calendar then.

 

Isn't it more likely Monaco, Silverstone and the final GP of the season?

 

:dismay: Same old BBC, no commitment to showing live sport whatsoever. Unless you can afford to subscribe to Sky, Virgin or BT you've got no f**king hope of watching any decent live sport these days. I don't blame SKY for this, it's the BBC and Ecclestone who need stringing up. Bernie is a greedy c*nt.