Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by hornmeister, Nov 14, 2010.
Was never going to be ready to race .
End of the road for Kimi.
Retiring at the end of this season.
He’ll probably just chill somewhere without a care in the world .
He might take up rallying. A bit like Kubica. He likes a challenge. The Finns are masters of the art.
Didn't he retire a few years ago?
Had 2 years away from the sport after Ferrari before coming back to join Lotus .
I guess that is the Netherlands on the GP calendar for the next few years ..
Didn’t make for great racing though .
Its typical of the absolute state of F1
The track brings no value to the sport, its another yawn fest, but its all about what the sport can earn from Dutch fans
Even the guys on Channel 4 basically said it's a quicker bigger version of Monaco and they like to build up any F1 race naturally.
There is probably a good reason why F1 hadn't raced in the Netherlands for 36 years.
Absolutely pointless track. No more than 3 potential overtaking points and such a short lap that the back markers were constantly in the equation being lapped or whatever. Max drove well but leading into the first corner was essentially the win sown up barring any errors or mechanical failure.
Zandvoort is the only Grand Prix I’ve ever been to. 1979 (possibly?). Gilles Villeneuve’s wheel came off but he completed the lap anyway without it to get back to the pits.
So it’s official.
All British team at Mercedes.
Cannot wait to see Russell behind the Mercedes again. Being groomed for the World Championship. I do hope though that the new regulations next season make 2022 unpredictable. This season has been a two horse race.
The last interesting season from my point of view and a superb montage from BBC Sport. Music supplied by the hugely under rated Alistair Griffin:
That’s one horse more than most seasons - beggars can’t be choosers!
I would prefer more teams competing for the ultimate prize. Would keep me interested instead of knowing who will be at the front, who will be the mid runners and those bringing up the rear. I do hope the new rules loosen the grip the monied teams have on the sport. The same thing I see in football where we generally know who will be in the top six at the end of the season and who will be in the bottom six.
Oh dear - they have clashed again.
Sounds quite nasty too - good job the halo was there.
Not a pretty incident earlier. The stewards do seem to have been consistent though when comparing it to the Silverstone crash, saying that neither driver was faultless but the attacker in each case was predominantly to blame and therefore penalised.
Although, I think the main cause was actually those stupid sausage kerbs, again. They have the power to enforce track limits for cutting a chicane, so why do they need those horrendous kerbs? Are they waiting for somebody to die before scrapping them?
Thankfully the halo was there otherwise could have been a lot worse .
Stewards saw that Verstappen "predominantly to blame" for the accident and hit him with a three place penalty in Sochi.
Seems about right to me, as expecting Lewis to open the door for him to go round the outside was ridiculous. Verstappen had the option of cutting across the chicane thus avoiding Lewis's car but chose to go for the collision instead. It looked like a deliberate "take out" to me.
Don’t think it would have helped Verstappen’s cause that he’d just had the botched pit stop and was clearly raging on the radio. And that was just the broadcast bit and the stewards can hear the whole lot. Red mist was a big factor I think.
The thing I didn't get - and went out straight after the race so didn't hear the post-race chatter, so maybe it was covered there - is why Hamilton pitted when he did. The commentators made a big thing out of him starting on hard tyres and being able to go longer into the race. Yet when it came to it he pitted only 2 laps after Max.
I think if Lewis's pitstop had been "normal" in terms of time, then he would have been out in plenty of time, in front of Verstappen. Had he not pitted, then Verstappen would have closed the gap on fresh tyres, and then if Lewis pitted later would probably have come out behind him. I think the hard tyres gave the option of staying out longer, if he needed it?
Yeah, Merc botched his stop too. I thought - and I was admittedly up a ladder with only half an eye on it at the time - they were saying Lewis was in the lead and in clear air at the front for the first time all race, while Max was behind the two Mclarens? I thought he was going to go for another 10 or so laps now he was free. Maybe I'm wrong. Your explanation sounds plausible.
Nonsense on the intentional take out. Come on now, seriously? There would have been a slight bump, probably wheel on wheel, if that kerb was a regular kerb and not a ski slope.
It's funny, when Red Bull insinuate Hamilton was intentionally playing dirty this thread is full of people saying they hate RBR and they're pathetic whingers. When Toto calls it a tactical take down there's silence or happy clappers agreeing. Christ sake. It's like looking at a Bournemouth forum.
Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
I was just basing my opinion on what I saw. In fact several the pundits on the live stream I was watching seemed to be saying that Lewis should have left more room. Whereas my first impression was "why" as I felt Verstappen was to blame the most? I was wondering if I misunderstood the rules, and tbh, I much prefer the "racing incident" line, if there was no intention.
For a start, as they turned right Verstappen was not fully alongside, he was slightly down, so it would not have been a "wheel on wheel". Other cars in the same position, in the same race, used the escape route across the chicane to rejoin the track later. He could have chosen the same route if he wanted to avoid collision and the big kerb. It was his choice. Lewis, on the other hand could not have been expected to make that turn to the right much more tightly, had just been doing 150 mph + as he approached the corner. and he had the left hander to quickly follow, he was ahead and on the racing line! Surely you don't expect the leading car to step move aside for someone attempting an overtaking, and not even getting fully alongside! I think it would only take a very quick look at what Verstappen does to protect his position when someone is trying to overtake to appreciate that he gives it out, and maybe he should expect to get it back.
The stewards had all the telematics information and came to their conclusion.
But, of course, you are entitled to disagree. Indeed, Verstappen changed his opinion from Hamilton effectively causing the accident, to it being a "racing incident" after he saw the replays.
And this forum has its fair share of posters who dislike Lewis Hamilton, and he gets both praise and criticism on here. It isn't like the Muff forum.
Mclaren reacted because of the botched Verstappen pit stop. If done correctly it would have placed Hamilton perfectly in front of the Red Bull.
Agree about the red mist descending on Verstappen, he was quite clearly raging and was never going to back down.
When the incident happened in real time it seemed very clear that Verstappen was the instigator as earlier in the race with a very similar incident Hamilton backed away and cut the chicane, this time Verstappen just kept pushing hoping for the same result. Wasn't an intentional take out IMO, just over aggressive driving when angry and a bad decision made.
You can always tell when Max is at fault because Christian Horner isn't frothing at the mouth afterwards.
My take on the analysis of the crash:
The stewards have to follow the letter of the law, which states as the corner was entered if a driver is not alongside (I think at least half a car's length?) then the defending driver does not have to allow room. That is the key reason that Max is penalised and not Lewis, they did not compliment Lewis's driving - in fact they said both were at fault to some degree. What the rules don't take account of, so the stewards couldn't factor in, is that Lewis was fresh out of the pits with comparatively cold tyres. So yes, at the entry to the corner Max was not 50% alongside, however due to his speed, warm tyres and line not affected by the pit exit he was able to brake much later and get into an overtaking position. It wasn't a crazy lunge, that would've been a reasonable braking distance even if Lewis wasn't there. But like I said, the rules are black and white so the decision was correct.
As for the rest, no you're right, it wasn't wheel-to-wheel it would've been Max's front right in Lewis's sidepod. Yep, Max should've bailed out, if you watch the overhead he was actually watching Lewis and not where the kerb of doom was. I disagree on the line, Lewis was not on the racing line. He had come out of the pits and was on the right side of the track, then cut 2/3 of the way across - not the racing line. He then took the racing line on the 2nd corner, which had the technicality mentioned above not been in effect would've been classed as causing an accident... So no, his line was awful and could also have easily avoided an accident if he wasn't equally stubborn. This line "Surely you don't expect the leading car to step move aside for someone attempting an overtaking, and not even getting fully alongside" made me chuckle, as that's exactly what people were saying Max should've done at Silverstone (not sure if you were one of them).
For years Hamilton has not had to fight with anybody, almost all of his overtakes were preceeded by a radio message of 'We are not fighting Hamilton, this is not our race' and letting him through. Now Max is a legitimate rival it's all getting rather crashy. Not a coincidence. Lewis fights hard, which I'm all for. Max also fights hard, which Lewis isn't used to.
Haha, nope, you lot shut down people criticising Hamilton like a Twitter mob at a Tory conference. Apparently people only dislike Hamilton because he's successful and British, we only like an underdog. Which is completely inaccurate, but has been taken as fact because the people who dislike him can't be bothered to headbutt that wall any more.
I think it was just stubbornness combined with his clear anger at that terrible pitstop. Either driver could've avoided it though, if their priority was safety above pride.
Prioritising safety doesn't make a champion driver. Coulthard was always way too safety conscious and it showed in his results.
Does anyone know what happened with the Red Bull pitstop that made it go so wrong?
I heard that the wheel jack man forgot to press his finished button. This was a system that was automated previously but changed due to regs. Sounds like he just got a bit carried away.
Max has a history of not giving a **** and just going for it. He's a thourougly unlikeable and arrogant chap in my opinion. That being said those are both qualities that have got him to where he is today and probalby required to some extent to put him on the level he is above most of the rest of the field. He just needs to moderate a bit.
I'm no Hamilton fan either although I think he has mellowed with experience, whether that is him growing as a person of being coached to it is another matter.
In F1, nice guys finish last, the competition is brutaul to even get a drive. What is certain is that Max & Lewis are on another level to most.
Russell coming into the team next year will be interesting. It will make or break his career. He needs to be a team player, but take the opportunities when he can as being Lewis' partner is not easy, but from what I've seen he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I can see Lewis retiring after 1 or 2 more seasons. It's Russell's chance to learn from the master now and take over the mantle when retirement happens. The way Hamilton builds the team and car around him is what ultimately makes the difference.
Mclaren appear to have closed the gap and there's not much between the top 3 cars now. In some respect it's a shame that the changes are coming in next year as we're finally starting to get some racing and unpredictibility back into the sport and traditionally the big teams prosper more from rule changes due to their larger and more experienced R&D teams.
Could be quite a spicy start on Sunday with Verstappen's grid penalty.
Not a bad week of sport: Watford, AJ v Usyk, Ryder Cup and F1
Got a feeling they may take the oportunity for an engine swap and start him at the back as the net hurt will be less.
If Merc need to for Lewis at some point (like they did for Botarse) and I was them I'd follow suit.
Verstappen (along with Leclerc) to start from the back of the grid after taking engine penalties.
A strong Mercedes track but rain might shake things up a bit.
Penalised for using “one more engine than is allowed”.
“It has come to my attention, Mr Verstappen, that you have been using two engines. That amounts to cheating Mi-laddo.”
Going really well so far.
Gutted for Lando. Heavy rain with 2 laps to go...
And what a result for Max.
Such a shame for Norris.- that slip up cost him a win.
Hamilton takes advantage but will probably be shocked to find Verstappen 2nd!
Bottas 5th in the end and well done to Kimi for a high finish plus Russel scoring again.