England National Team - Three Lions On The Shirt

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Davy Crockett, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Am I the only one disappointed to see 2 cloggers in our midfield .
    Gareth seems to have gone "full Mourinho" in his selections.
    Why not ask one of the no.10s to do that job or pick Will Hughes ?
    "It's either defensive mid James\Jack\Dele or watching the match from your sofa"
    Luca Modric one of the best midfielders in the last 10 years .
    Didn't score many but was a "schemer" .
    We are never going to play through the 3rds with both Rice and Phillips.
    IMO.
     
  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I think it's Mount and 2/3 others which probably includes Henderson when fit in midfield.
     
  3. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think caring too much about the national team is ultimately futile. There is an opportunity for one team to win something every other year, ultimately it’s always going to end up in disappointment.

    I’ve always thought that all things considered the England job should be treated a bit like what we’ve done with Munoz, give it to someone who will just fire them up and let them play. Someone who will pick the best players at the time rather than being wedded to a particular system, then trying to shoehorn a load of players that all already play completely different systems with their clubs.

    Relatively speaking the managers don’t get much time with the players who are all used to playing a specific way with their clubs, why over complicate things.

    Ultimately Southgate was a pretty poor manager with Boro, if he left England now and took up a job at a PL club I’d happily wager he’d be pretty poor at that too, so unfortunately I don’t think we can expect anything other than what we get.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  4. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    Tournaments are pretty fun, at least for a week until the novelty of constant football wears off.

    My idea of hell is sitting through 90 minutes of an international qualifier or a friendly.

    The idea of everything grinding to a halt now and having all of those bubbles and knackered players coming together to play minnow nations in front of zero fans is ******* mind boggling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    That’s probably what we get with Southgate. A very limited manager who the players like. I agree it’s probably the way to go.
     
  6. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yep qualifiers have become so tedious since the number of nations seemingly doubled. In the old days it was actually a novelty being able to try and hammer Luxembourg. After that you invariably has to play a crack Yugoslav team behind the iron curtain chaperoned by military types with rifles, and the commentators sounded like they were on the moon.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  7. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Least the Under 21s are getting good practice..

    At being rubbish in tournaments.

    1-0 down again.
     
  8. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    Reminds me of Football Against the Enemy. Great book.
     
    GarethCritic likes this.
  9. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I've only seen snippets but they look very average.
    Good goal by Portugal.
    Boothroyd's lot you'd think now.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  10. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    What’s that about? East v West football? Never read it but sounds up my street.
     
  11. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    It
    It’s by Simon Kuper and he wrote it in the early 90’s. He goes to conflict zones, young countries, waaaay way off the beaten path etc to places in Eastern Europe and Asia that tourism still hasn’t reached yet. It’s a really good study in culture in places affected by war and conflict through the lens of football, I’d highly recommend it.
     
    Smudger and Jumbolina like this.
  12. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Me thinks Aidy Boothroyd might lose his job as England's U21 football manager very soon.
     
    El distraído likes this.
  13. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    While it may upset some international football is seen as the pinnacle by most fans outside of Europe. Even if it is only the Olympics. I prefer international football to any CL, EL scenario or another season of PL, BL, Serie A. La Liga tedium where a few clubs have monopolized everything.

    Now you may say certain countries now pay fees to players when they play and realistically only some nations are in a shout of an international title but it is still wider than most domestic competitions and most players are still very proud to put on their national jersey.
     
  14. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    This is fine when the internationals are competitive, as at Finals tournaments, but mismatched qualifiers that end 7 or 8 nil as they did tonight do nobody any favours.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Probably hasn’t helped baring a Steve McLaren type **** up we will always get through as a top 2 side so there isn’t really much to get excited about in Qualifying games.

    Poland will probably be a good test but without lewandowski they won’t be the same threat.
     
  16. K9 Hornet

    K9 Hornet Border Collie Dog

    I've given up on any expectation that England will win anything in my lifetime. I didn't even know they were playing tomorrow such is my lack of interest in it. I thought they had played 2 games already and that would be it.
    I just resent the interruption to the flow of our promotion push
     
    El distraído likes this.
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Yes - just said today it’s the impossible job.

    Well maybe not easy but we should be winning more than 3 games in 19 when playing in these tournaments.

    Mind you Gareth Southgate got the main gig after coaching the Under 21s.
     
  18. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I don’t watch friendlies or qualifiers. How are we playing?

    Based on domestic form this season, I’d say only Shaw, Kane and Stones been world class, which doesn’t bode well. Grealish too I suppose, but he’s injured.

    Sterling, Sancho and Rashford are probably the best technical inside forwards we have and they’re all exhausted and lacking confidence.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    As we say above hard to tell against limited opposition.

    Bit like us in recent played ok at times but weren’t really troubled so didn’t need to get out of our comfort zone.

    Definitely right about your summery about those players .
     
    miked2006 likes this.
  20. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    England will never win a tournament again whilst the current incompetents run the game. Southgate is simply not the man to bring home serious silverware so why did they hire him? Because he'll do what they tell him to and won't rock the boat.
    Aidy Boothroyd running the U21s is also an utter joke, as was Neville running the England Ladies team.

    It's a complete shambles.
     
    CYHSYF, El distraído, Jack5 and 2 others like this.
  21. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    While I don’t disagree, Southgate did get England further in the WC than all but two other managers have ever done.

    It’s all very well calling it a shambles, but who is the alternative? Wenger? Saint Eddie?

    International football just doesn’t attract the best managers anymore.
     
  22. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    For some reason I now have "Putting on the Ritz", the 'Young Frankenstein' version in my head.
    Super Kuper!
     
  23. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    The alternative is a very good question. You need the opposite to a good club manager IMO, someone who can have a short term impact, in fact it would have been very interesting to see how Allardyce would have done.

    What I would say is that Southgate had the easiest run to the semi final possible but didn't have the personality to fire them up for the big game. I think back to Euro 96 where Venables had the team absolute fired up against the Germans, Southgates team were wet lettuces in comparison.
     
    miked2006 likes this.
  24. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I see your point but it was a World Cup semi final against a beatable team, they shouldn't have needed firing up they were one step from the greatest stage in World football.
     
  25. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Yes, I'd have liked to see Allardyce have a crack.

    Venables did no better than Southgate in the end, of course...
     
    Diamond likes this.
  26. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    So you don't consider Allardyce a "good club manager"? Is this because of his more recent image as a 'fixer', rather than, for instance, his eight years at Bolton?
    Also, are you advocating a regular turnover of England managers - say, one tournament each only for "short term impact"? (I'm not criticising these views, I'm just interested in the reasoning.)
     
  27. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    England currently have an unbelievable depth of attacking talent .
    Quality players will miss out on the final 23 let alone starting 11.
    However does anyone seriously believe that Pep or Klopp if they
    were in charge would have had both Rice and Phillips against such
    limited opposition. Neither of them are passers or schemers. We will
    find it tricky to play through the 3rds against better teams with both of those 2
    sitting .
     
  28. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Southgate used young players, which was a good plan as it took the pressure off somewhat. He seems like a figure who is likeable and can bring a group together.

    He is however tactically pretty poor, and will therefore struggle in matches against good managers/ players.

    His record at the last world cup was masked by our very favourable lucky draws. I am not sure we will ever get such an easy potential run to a world cup finals:
    Tunisia W
    Panama W
    Belgium L
    Colombia (D - through on penalties)
    Sweden W
    Croatia L
    Belgium L

    When it comes down to it, he beat Tunisia, Panama and a pretty weak Swedish side (20th in the world) in 90 minutes. The best side he defeated is 15th in the world, and he only managed to beat them on penalties.
     
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  29. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    These are the players who should go to the Euros, and play a decent amount of minutes. Those in brackets are backups, but should come off the bench/ play the final group stage match if we are through. Walker/ James (Wan Bissaka) should be opposition dependent.

    Pope/ Henderson
    Walker/James (Wan Bissaka)
    Stones
    Maguire
    Shaw (Chillwell)
    Henderson
    Rice (Bellingham/ Philips)
    Grealish/ Mount/ Foden/ Lingard
    Sancho
    Kane (DCL)
    Rashford/ Sterling

    It feels like a 433 suits us best. Unfortunately most of our good players are vying for the same position. Against sides which will defend deep, I'd play Sancho/ Sterling on one wing and Grealish on the other, with a goalscoring mid like Lingard or Foden also in the team. Against better sides who will play a high line, Rashford (if fit) and Foden are probably better players to turn to.
     
  30. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    No, I think he got worse over time to the point where he was brought in only to rescue a team, which until WBA he always did. I'm not sure if he'd have done the business with England, just saying it would have been nice to see what happened with such a manager.

    Yes, I'd have a new England boss every 2 tournaments unless they did miracles.
     
  31. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    While I accept that this doesn't tell uis much about whether Southgate is any good, it would equally have been very odd not to stick with him after he got us to a SF. This is just how tournaments work - luck of the draw.
     
  32. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Once he had been hired, I agree it would be strange to sack him. The issue was hiring someone who clearly wasn't up to beating the top teams in the first place.

    Now we have to passively watch on whilst we go through this tournament with a talented team, knowing we will suffer a lame defeat by a team that outthinks us.
     
  33. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Yes, but as I said above, once Allardyce was dumped, was there much in the way of alternative options? And frankly we have suffered that fate before with 'big name' managers. It probably made sense to change tack a la Munoz.
     
  34. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    Boothroyd's excuses are absolutely pathetic.

    He can say what he wants but we all know he should have done much better with that crop of players.

    How is he still in the job?
     
  35. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I just had a thought, the golden generation always seemed to take qualification down to the wire. The Wally with the Brolly and Beckham against Greece spring to mind.

    More recently qualification for tournaments seems to be a formality from day one, not even something you question or think about.

    Maybe that’s down to the golden generation being massively overrated.
     

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