Crockett's Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by Davy Crockett, Dec 1, 2024.

  1. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Ah but unlike space, this echo chamber is definitely full of (hot) air.
     
    BC101 likes this.
  2. Presumably you would hear it, as the vacuum would only be outside you.
     
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy Guest

    I don’t even know what this thread is about. But at least it seems to be keeping someone away from other areas so long may it continue.
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  4. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    to leave the "flourishing" politics section please switch off the lights ?

    If you block or ban anyone with an opposing opinion then (a) you think everyone thinks like you
    (b) you are intolerant (c) you kill dialogue

    Well done you lot !!
     
  5. It's Christmas. Some of us have lives.
     
  6. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Says the bloke who has been posting furiously over the holidays !!! Lol!!
    Get a life !!
     
  7. ??????
     
  8. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    To be honest out of the two of them I preferred Tubbs.
     
  9. Awesome tune for Crockett though
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  10. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Still at it? Admirable stamina.
    (a) Gladly, I don't think people on here believes 'everyone thinks like them' and the threads always contain a variety of viewpoints. Maybe the fact that none of those views accord with your own it is you that holds the mistaken belief that they are 'all the same'.
    (b) I welcome well-argued counter viewpoints and would never agitate for anyone to be banned. Argued against or ignored, but never banned.
    (c) The greater enemy of dialogue is incessant rants with no substance.

    But thanks for the final compliment.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  11. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Yes, I believe in abolishing money and the borders between countries. One world, no money. Have a new look at improving our lot as a human race.

    But it seems the vast majority of folk insist that's absolutely impossible. Can't be done. For lots of different reasons.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  12. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    It is a nice ideal but impossible to achieve while those who have most of the money also have all the power. They will never relinquish that money and power for a world that gives more equality and provides for everyone.

    The sad thing, imho, is that so many ordinary, and even poor, people hold up the billionaires as their heros even though they will probably struggle financially themselves their whole lives.

    Meanwhile Musk could spend $1,000,000 every day for nearly 700 years before he exhausts his fortune and that assumes no additional growth through investment.

    The gap between rich and poor has become truly obscene but that just means the rich have become more powerful and your dream of a free and equal society far less likely I'm afraid.
     
  13. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player


    Well, you have to have the conditions for the Revolution before you can have the Revolution. Capitalism is so obviously way past its 19th/20th century sell by date and completely unsuited to meeting the global challenges facing humanity. I should have thought that was glaringly obvious to anyone who cared to take even half a look at the matter.

    Imminently human workers are no longer going to be needed. In pretty much any field. What then? Are we stood off? No income. We don't eat? We don't have anywhere to live?

    If they give us money (universal income etc) how do they differentiate between the middle and lower classes? What justification can they use for some having more and others much less without the excuse of 'hard working'.

    Change can come in a moment. 2008 was close, but with the US empire in sharp decline, another huge crash in capitalism's eternal boom and bust cycle and a domino collapse of banks around the world could easily make money (i.e. figures on computers in the main) worthless and redundant and I shouldn't think anyone will bother defending the borders if they're not getting paid. A radical rethink might be forced on us.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  14. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Hello you lot
    Not one cowardly word to be said about a most despicable crime committed against children
     
  15. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    No, we're on one world no money at the moment.

    What do you think of the idea? Up for it? Abolish money. Do away with those stupid invented shifting lines in the ground they call borders.

    Are you in?
     
  16. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    I wish I could share your optimism but I can't see capitalism being overthrown or replaced while so many that the system fails still wholeheartedly support it.

    The next few decades will be interesting. You are correct, many jobs will disappear when AI and robotics replace the humans. But will the "bosses" share the new found wealth that comes from not paying wages? Will the rich be willing to pay a living income for the unemployed or continue with the subsistence "benefits" they now "enjoy"? Will there ever be enough resentment for a "revolution" in the UK when we've had decades of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer with no sign of a popular protest?

    Or will the populace continue to be persuaded that it's not the rich elite that's the problem. It's the migrant. It's the benefit scrounger. It's the EU.

    Like I say, I wish I could be more optimistic but the evidence of the last 10 years or more has made me pessimistic about the future of the less well off in this country.
     
  17. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    I would be interested to see somebody explain quite how society would function with no money and no borders. It seems to assume that people could agree on what needs to be done and to do it. If this forum teaches us anything it is that people have very different ideas aspirations and goals - and ways of being polite or otherwise to others. Are your ideas an idealistic optimistic dream or can you envisage exactly how such a society would work - even assuming it would be possible to get there.
     
  18. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Yes, it's all quite simple really. Once we've got no money and no borders, it's just a matter of sorting out what everyone needs to consume - education, food, housing, healthcare, clean water, internet access, transport, entertainment activities, sewerage etc.

    As you say, it's difficult to get everyone to agree on everything but I reckon 99.9% of the world's population would be in favour of that.

    Ideas, aspirations and goals - human ingenuity - would be unleashed. This is one of my big objections to neoliberal capitalism. How many geniuses, how many musicians and artists, how many modern Einsteins, Galileos or Hawkings are we wasting amongst the huge majority of the world's population who are just in the struggle to try to survive never mind do anything else?

    Once the basics of living are guaranteed to everyone, people will be freed to invent and design ideas - not to make huge profits for a rich sponsor and not to make bigger and better bombs and weapons - but ideas to improve the lot of humanity.

    As for no borders - we know these shift and change and are the cause of huge conflict. I often think we'd have been far better off if the Romans or the Egyptians or one of those ancient empires had managed to conquer the whole world and keep it conquered. We'd all speak the same language and just be different provinces of one global 'country'. We could go where we want without stupid passports and visas and such nonsense.
     
  19. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It would be amazing comrade - like the Soviet Union but even bigger! I’d be dancing to the factory in the morning knowing high secretary Clive had allocated some unsalted slop to my pot for the evening feast!
     
  20. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Can you scream in space, which is notoriously short of air?
     
  21. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    You can scream in space but as SklyaRose tells us nobody could hear it. It is open to debate whether you yourself could her it as it is internal - but mybe that doesn't count as "hearing"
     
  22. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    Much as I might like this simple creative vision I honestly think it could not work. It really is not that simple to work out what everyone needs - everyone's needs are different and complex. You only have to look at the health service to see that what people need far exceeds society's ability to provide it. Your scheme necessitates that "needs" are less than what is available. It also assumes we are not a species that is aggressive and territorial. Even where there are no borders people from different "tribes" or societies can be hostile to outsiders. It also would need mankind to stop inventing little people up in the sky who created everything and then kill each other over their vision of what colour shirt they wear.
    99.9% agreement is something I don't think even the government in Cuba gets :) Even if you were right that means 80 million people would oppose it. How do you deal with them?
    If you could overnight reduce the world's population to say 1 billion or fewer your scheme might have a fighting chance.
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  23. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player



    This is untrue. Cuba is a poor, blockaded country, but through simple choices, it has a 24 hour, no-appointment-needed, show up and the doctor will see you now, polyclinic in every neighbourhood - including remote rural locations. It even sends its spare medics overseas on humanitarian missions. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Reeve_Brigade).

    Healthcare is one of the fundamental reasons I say capitalism will not do. It's the 21st century. We have the simple ability to give first class medical care to every single person across the globe. Tell me why you think that is impossible.

    Doing away with money would also of course make medicine patents worthless and so we could manufacture them in the numbers required with no regard to supposed 'cost'. Scientists and researchers could investigate new medications that actually provide a cure, rather than just the symptoms so that the customer keeps buying the drug. They would be free to investigate the natural world and ancient remedies from plants and trees - currently excluded because they can't be patented.


    I don't believe we are. I think we are social animals who get on in big troops. I think it is twisted, competitive, look out for no.1 capitalism that *makes* people that way. I think it's nurture rather than nature.

    Columbus reported that the Arawak and Taino Indians he encountered when he got lost and bumped into the Americas, were tranquil, friendly and couldn't do enough for them. Theft, violence and murder were unknown in their moneyless society, which had lasted (it is believed) over 1000 years.

    Columbus, who came from a money society, wrote that he was overjoyed because the Indians would make marvellous slaves to create great riches for them. (Unhappy smiley).

    I don't see why it would be necessary to reduce the world's population. Sensibly managed and organised, there's more than enough for everyone. Solutions could also realistically tackle emissions and climate change on a global level. Something that seems impossible under the current borders and money system.


    As for what to do with dissenters and 'dissidents' who didn't want to be part of society - we would do nothing. You could suppose perhaps these might be the old richies and landlords etc. They would probably need some time to come to terms with the fact that their money is now worthless and that they're just the same as Joe Bloggs. I'm sure though that they would soon get hungry or want some other service provided by the rest of us and since they can't 'buy' it anymore, they're in a bit of a quandary. I'd expect them to come around to the new way fairly rapidly.
     
  24. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    Even if Cuba were a paradise on Earth do you think it is valid to extrapolate for a world population of 8 billion based on 0.13% (not 1% but one tenth of that) of the population?
    Cuba is not a moneyless society either so again is not a valid sample to extrapolate from
    Without money you have a simple form of barter - in that case you barter your work for a basket of needs that presumably somebody decides for you.
    I doubt enough is known about your Indian tribes to know what form of barter they had.
    We must disagree on the fundamental nature of humans, other primates and in fact as far as I can see all species except bees and ants - and they do not tolerate "outsiders"
    Overuse of resources is destroying the Earth and 8 billion people seems to me far too many
    What if your dissenters - say 80 million of them if it roughly mirrored the Cuban statistic of 0.13% all decided to go to a resource rich area and set up itheir own society with money - are they allowed to?
     

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