Tom Cleverley - Head Coach

Bit of a counter-argument from me...

I agree it's not an unambitious appointment. But equally it could be described as a punt. And as I said earlier in the thread, it's an indication of where our ambitions as a club now lie. We're marooned in mid-table, arguably looking more behind us than upwards, with a minimal transfer budget and Pozzo's trashed what remains of the club's reputation such that most serious candidates wouldn't look twice. I don't buy the idea that we're completely unattractive and it was appoint Cleverley or accept the tea lady, which seems to be the implication of some on here and elsewhere (not you), though the loss of parachute money probably knocks us down another notch.

I don't agree a club the size of ours is about right for him to start at though. The Manchester United link is worthless in my view. Ex-Man Utd / Fergie era types are ten a penny in football. What coaching badges does he have (to the extent they mean much)? What non-Watford coaching experience does he have? I'm betting there'll be another couple of windows of squad churn to come and at that point the former teammate kudos will be of minimal value by then too. And finally, what experience does he have of standing up to a difficult owner?

Anyway, of course I hope he proves me wrong. He's got a couple of dead rubber games now and then a pre-season to get working. I can't pretend I'm desperately impressed with his public adulation of Bachmann and our forward options so far, but I hope that's just him trying to squeeze the last bit of juice out of them for this season and he's more open to change in the summer.

 

McKinley? True, but he only lasted two matches so I didn’t really count him!

 

Explains the banners begging for his shirt; they all want to know whose he wears.

 

Yes, that just dawned on me too actually.

 

I thought it was the Mamas & Papas.

 

I think it's a very strange suggestion to make that people who have perfectly legitimate reservations over the appointment 'have their eyes closed' or are 'moaning for the sake of moaning'. Apart from the fact that, as ever, people are allowed to differ in their opinions, it's in danger of seeming a tad smug and superior, and implying only that overwhelmingly positive views could possibly be accurate.

You know as well as anyone here how purposeful optimism at the start of this journey can turn quite spectacularly, so I don't quite understand why there needs to be another round of enforced happy clapping to mask one of basically two views expressed in this thread.

 

It’s a decent enough appointment for a club that will have minimal ambition next season. Give a young coach a chance. It might turn out great who knows. But don’t see the need to spin it to something it isn’t.

“He’s determined to succeed in his fledgling managerial career”. Isn’t this any young manager given a chance?

 

I’ve not seen any legitimate reasons (or reasons I consider legislate in my humble opinion) expressed on this thread though about not giving Tom the job though. Just a few comments about cheap option, a yes man bla bla bla.

There’s nothing smug or superior about me, either as a person or a poster here. I believe I’m one of the most respectful of other opinions people here, but maybe others see me differently, I don’t know. Can’t say I care all that much tbh. Life is **** right now and there are more important things to worry about.

I’m not a happy clapper. I’m pleased Tom got the job but not blinded to the possible risks either.

It could be by October, I will be wishing we’d not appointed him. Who knows. But right now I think it’s a good decision.

There are Watford fans who I believe moan for the sake of moaning. Not so much on here, but certainly on other social media. I stand by that comment and I think a lot of you will agree with that. One of them even got his own thread on this forum.

 

That was a reference really to his recent interview where he said he was more determined to succeed with us before he felt he’d somewhat under-achieved as a player.

It was also meant to be taken in the context of a new coach of any description being possibly fresher to succeed than an older one who has been round the block.

I’m not spinning anything. I’m just expressing my opinions. I’m not Tom’s agent or a spokesman for the club. I have no ulterior motive to spin anything.

By saying I’m spinning it into something it’s not, you imply I’m writing rubbish. Mind you, that wouldn’t be the first time I did!

 

I guess it was the “open your eyes” stuff I found a bit OTT. The guy is a rookie. That said I hope he does well as he’s a good bloke.

 

So are you, and I apologise if my choice of words annoyed you, @Chumlax or anybody else that I like here. Never my intention. It was more of an ‘open your eyes and look at the situation we sadly find ourselves in due to mismanagement, level your expectations etc’ comment.

 

Fairplay, sorry to hear life is **** at the moment for you - I can sympathise, times are tough. I hope it improves soon, though I'm currently doubtful Watford will be the cause

 

I'm happy with TC's appointment, because if I take all the noise and the reservations out of the discussion, it feels like a reconnect with the soul of this club. That'll do for me at this juncture, 'Pozzo Out' though I am. And that's why I'm having a (henna) tattoo on my arm in the summer: TC = WFC.

For the old-timers on here

By way of a mild and momentary distraction from the thread's topic, I overheard three old Blades in my local in Sheffield tonight. talking about football, football and football. I know them by sight, but not to talk to.

Whilst at the bar at the same time as one of them, I said I was a Watford supporter and how so many players has moved between the two clubs. All three chimed in immediately with (no surprise) Tony Currie, but my God, how they waxed lyrical about Stewart Scullion!!!

Anyway, back on topic...

Keep the Faith

SCG

 

I just don’t see why it’s beyond that maniac in charge to add a few comments to the appointment?

Whenever we hire someone, it’s always seems like it’s a deal done with the new head coach and whoever is interviewing him for the website, with next to zero comment from anyone above - and certainly no comment from Bozo.

 

Probably because that way it makes saying the inevitable goodbye somewhat easier for him. You know how emotional these Italians can get!

 

I presume with Cleverley staying that we'll be seeing more of the 352 next season, maybe still in occasional rotation with the 433.

Cleverley in his comments this week rightly pointed out that when we've played 4 at the back " we’ve been too open, and when we play three at the back and are solid we look a little bit toothless in attack."

He also claimed that our toothlessness in attack isn't only down to having a 20 a season striker or not. And while an upgrade in our strikers would obviously help, I agree it's not the only significant contributor to our lack of attacking threat in the 352.

Regardless of what happens with our strikers next season, if we're going to keep playing 352 while aiming to be less "toothless" in attack, what is imperative is that we have wing-backs who can help to contribute more in an attacking sense, with regards to setting up chances or even scoring themselves. Because our goal tally from our central midfielders has been decent this season and we have enough players there who aren't too shabby at making things happen.

It has been Lewis and Andrews who have been more often than not killing our attacks with poor passes,, poor crosses, or dallying on the ball rather than trying to beat a man and get forwards. Any striker is going to struggle if they're relying on quality service from wide areas from just those two!

I've said before I'm not keen on a 352 and one of my reasons for this is it typically requires bringing in some different types of players than setting up a team for a more common 443, and one of the main areas where this is apparent is in the wide areas - you really need your wing-backs to be adept going forwards and it's perhaps more vital than them being solid defensively, especially when you have 3 solid CBs. You want them to be more your Sema types, rather than your steady-Eddie Ngakia or Lewis type typical back 4 full-back.

We saw under Edwards how only having the clunky Gaspar on the right contributed to undermining his attempt to play a wing-back system. Andrews at least has a bit more pace than him but is still far too inconsistent and lacking in end product. Sema is ideal for the left but seemingly can't be relied upon. Ngakia is not suited to the role on the right nor can he be relied upon.

I'm concerned as with the Edwards season that this is a role which will get over-looked again and we won't try and bring in the required quality and player type to effectively suit the system Cleverley is trying to use.

 

Unsure if you posted this after reading AF’s latest article but Cleverley has said the playing style for next season has been decided on and we’ll be ‘recruiting towards that’, so hopefully, there’s a plan.

Fully take your point about Gaspar being given to Rob Edwards on board though. Let’s hope the square pegs in round holes approach finally stops this summer.

 

We say that every summer though.

I've not got to read the article - don't suppose anyone could please post it somewhere or message me it?

 

Sorry LR, I was shown by a colleague at work who's finished for the day.

 

See, one can learn a new thing every day. I never knew Graham Taylor was at Manchester United

 

Watching TCs latest press conference today he's looking more confident and sounds impressively like he has a plan.

Let's hope unlike others he gets the recruitment he wants, even if it's on the cheap.

Definitely an easy guy to get behind.

 

He has done nothing to earn the position. “Meh” performances that were nothing to write home about but would be totally unsustainable and inadequate in another context, wasn’t exactly a turn around job - turned dire performances into below mediocre performances. Essentially a 7/10 caretaker manager performance. Don’t know who I’d get instead but I’d chance choosing a name from a random MENA top division name out of a hat over Clevz. Ironically if he hadn’t been caretaker I wouldn’t mind - but we have already seen he isn’t going to be up for it so it is yet again another outrageous decision.

 

Think he probably just means a back three and wing backs. Have absolutely no faith in Gino to change and suddenly support someone with what they want once Mogi gets in his ear, won’t stop me getting excited about it though!

 

My main concern is based on his low energy dull media appearances. It’s not easy to see him getting the squad really fired up and motivated, or having the cojones, as Deeney would say, to rip into players that need a rocket up their ar5e to get them going.
Still, I suppose Joka was hardly “King of the media” !

 

Not even joking, but Slav's stature and demeanour would carry out that job in a way that is at least somewhat automatic, and certainly allows the possibility for him to exercise it very easily.

Clevs does not have that by any stretch of the imagination - if we're casting about for positives, we could, I suppose, fall back on the seemingly very hackneyed 'pedigree'/'players will respect his experience' paradigm as an alternative. I'm always suspicious about that - it's never greatly helped Frankie Lamps, has it. But we shall see.

 

Fair play, Duxbury’s trolling us all now…

https://www.watfordfc.com/news/scot...leverleys-appointment-as-permanent-head-coach

 

I think that’s actually pretty funny.

 

Would find it funny if he weren't bleeding us of a million quid a year

 

His salary doesn’t affect whether it’s funny or not. Otherwise at what salary would it become funny. £400k?

 

At least Cleverley was watching the same game as most of us:

"I think we started the game well in the first 20 minutes, and then gave away a few cheap fouls that spoiled the rhythm. Then we gave away a couple of chances, and Sunderland had a real foothold in the game. I thought we made too many technical mistakes today and were sloppy in possession, especially in the top third of the pitch.

On other days we might not be as good at the back, and our front three will create magic to get us out, but the result today was the other way round. Our defence was very good, and we were sloppy in possession.

Maybe it is just my high demands of us as a team. I see on a daily basis how technically good we are, playing in small spaces, combining around the box, and today we just couldn’t get it going, we would have two passes, but then with the third it would break down, or someone would try a flick."

Albeit our front three haven't been creating much magic of late.

https://www.watfordfc.com/news/reaction-cleverley-on-home-win-against-sunderland

 

Would hardly say he's a relegation saviour when he holds the record of 8 promotions to his name, added to the record amount of games in charge.