Absurd. Where did I say anything like that. Can you post anything without making up rubbish and lying about what people said? I did, however, say that the war was inevitable under Biden, and explained the reasons for that clearly enough for a child to understand. I am sorry you were unable to understand it, but here it is for you once again… In other words, Biden got exactly what he wanted by doing nothing to prevent the war. He didn’t have to do anything. Why on Earth are you asking what he did do, like a child that doesn’t understand how the world works? You tell me what he did to prevent it, and explain the reasons his actions failed. Was it blowing up Nord Stream? Calling for regime change. You flat Earthers are beyond credibility.
You what? How did that one work? Russia carried out a proxy war? Do you even know what you are saying? How did it compare with the US proxy war with Russia that we are suffering right now, in the interest of regime change and US commercial dominance? Biden could roger Putin up the wazoo on the Vicarage Road pitch for half time entertainment and you would say it was the Russian aggressively backing into him with his trousers down! I’m not even defending Putin. Just pointing out what Biden appears to have no problem telling you he has done.
Are you well? All of your posts are terse and impolite these days. Not that they were ever pleasant. But you have been clear that Biden didn’t make Russia invade. That was Putin’s choice. How could Biden have prevented war then?
Well, to be fair Russia’s proxy war was barely that, as Russian forces have been fighting alongside Ukrainians separatists for years.
?? You could at least read the thread before replying. Or you could even try answering the question I have been asking people on here, without reply, for the last few days. What did Biden do to prevent the war, and how did it fail. You only like asking questions though.
What makes anyone believe Putin’s ‘Special Military Operation’ could have been stopped? Whether we’re talking 2014 or 2022 the only thing that could have made him think twice was committing NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine. So a real WW3… no way would any member of NATO have sanctioned that. Why think of Putin in terms of traditional old-fashioned ‘western styled’ realpolitik? His world view is clearly not constructed in that way and his over arching commitment to reconfigure Eastern Europe along some sort of reprise of the USSR controlling the client states in its self-defined ‘theatre of interest’ is his core motivation. Even had Trump won re-election, Putin’s ‘crusade’ would have continued in the exact same way.
Blind hatred of people who don’t think like you do, would do it. We are yet to hear of a single thing that Biden or the wider West could have to prevent the war without committing troops or saying ‘take what you want’.
No. I never ever heard of political and military posturing to find out how strong your opponent is. So is it inevitable that China will go into Taiwan? Going by your assessment of the Ukraine situation it would seem we should just let them in and get on with the aftermath. Or do you think we should do what we can to avoid a war? It really is like talking to kids in here.
And, compared to what we ended up with, how was taking what they wanted much worse than wrecking the world's economy's, stripping food supplies, increasing cost of living across the globe (sorry you flat earthers), hundreds of thousands of troops and civilians dead, massive environmental impact of the war and the Nord Stream destruction, total horrendous impact on the lives of those living in the areas the Russians were after and across Ukraine. Even capitulating completely seems relatively cheep compared to what we now have, which includes the threat of nuclear war. And I think the Russians would have agreed to far less than complete capitulation. You comedy blood thirsty war hawks really should take a look at history to see how wars can be averted. There is plenty Biden could have done from not supporting Ukraine through to seeking regime change in Russia, which is what we got. The effects of his actions and inactions we must all suffer, whilst the mega rich get richer. Are you sure you are an anti war lefty? Because you sure seem like a corporate affiliated extreme right wing war hawk gammon to me. Come on. Answer my question. Or are you admitting that Biden did nothing to avoid a war because he didn't have the power or the ability to stop it? I'm telling you. Trump would have, because the war is anethama to him and his business interests. Unlike Biden. Just got a bit of sick in my mouth reflecting on you lot and your wonderfull peace loving activism.
I keep telling you to stop posting whilst looking in that mirror. All we get from you is petulant childish imprecations to ‘stop the war’. No indications as how that come be done in the face of a self-styled ‘Russian Messiah’
He’s saying, quite clearly, Ukraine should have been left to its fate. All that would follow annexation, disappearances, showtrials, puppet Government and threats to neighbours Poland, Moldova, Slovakia, all fine by him. Would upset Biden, so win win. Of course that nearly happened. Famously, the US asked Zelensky if he wanted extraction. He replied that he wanted ammo, not a lift. It indicates that there was little initial plan to arm Ukraine and little expected resistance. But Ukraine did resist and the question is what is the right way to respond to that ongoing conflict? Of course pouring arms in is bad. So is denying them. Everyone should be working for peace and it’s easy to say give up territory for it, but Donbas, for example, used to be 59% ethnic Ukrainian. What is the basis for an externally imposed solution on those people that makes them Russian? But those nuances are lost on Hooter, because he’s so bizarre in his anti-Government views he’d rather back the despotic, criminal Russia state than the UK or US’s allies. And treat us to his ignorance and petulance.
What is your problem with what I have said then? I am only criticizing the war being allowed to happen because it enables Biden's warmongering foreign policy. Find me any comment I have made that criticises the Ukrainian people defending themselves. They are as much pawns in this stupid game as everyone else (the rest of the world) is. When you were young, you would have recognised it very easily. You weren't born gammon. It is noted that you still can't think of a thing Biden tried in order to prevent the war.
Imagine thinking wars are ‘allowed to happen’ by the US. Borderline tin foil hattery right there, but of course the natural landing point if you believe Trump would have stopped it. Russia is presumably also a pawn in Biden warmongering machinations then?
39 uses of the word ‘gammon’ by Hooter as an insult to date. Mostly towards me, but to others too. Pure trolling.
Imagine believing that the US couldn't have taken steps to reduce the chance of the war or to prevent it. Putin is guilty of war mongering. He has put himself into a corner that he cannot withdraw from without losing his power. You know full well that I am not supporting him or his antics. I am happy for him to lose his power. I would rather it not be done in a manner that sees the rest of the world pushed into a financial disaster that enriches mega corporations, and the deaths of hundreds of thousand of people, and the shadow of a world war hanging over us all because of poorly chosen references to regime change or an oportunistic strike on Europe's energy supply. I believe Trump would have done whatever he could to stop it, because there was no benefit for him in simply allowing it to happen. Allowing something is not always a matter of giving permission, it is also, as the saying goes, simply a matter of a (good) person doing nothing. You are in exactly the same position as those that justified the Iraq invasion, as far as I am concerned. You say nothing could have stopped it, but you have all said that ceding territory could have possibly stopped it. You and Moose have both said that. Not a result you would have liked, but a result you freely admit may have done the job. So why is it you then also say that there is nothing that could have been done to stop the war? Why is it you think that there was not a level of territory that could have been ceded, along with other concessions and agreements from both sides, that may not have prevented the complete F up we are now living through? Why is it you think this war is a better thing for the world that made it worth ignoring any such negotiations? You are flat earthers denying the arguments that you yourselves make. You should listen to yoursleves sometime. It will make you laugh. And if you change your name to mine in your posts, you could even have a thread disagreeing with yourselves.
It is not an insult, it is an observation. I shall not bother searching the forum to find out how many times you have referred to me and others in derogatory terms, including gammon, and the inference, without a shred of evidence, that others of us are racists. Like I say. If you didn't say the things, such as your steadfast defence of this war, then I could not describe you as a gammon. But you do say them, and therefore I get to call you a gammon and explain why. I think that means I have now made 42 descriptive uses of the word gammon to describe the behaviour of people who act like gammons on this site. 44 now. BW is going to be delighted when I get to 88. PS. Moose went back and counted all of my uses of that word, and then described how he belives it is predominantly intended as an insult. Does anyone remember him saying that it was me that was obsessed with him? Or that he was going to ignore me? I'd make a gag about him being my landlord-without-rent, but it would go over his head again.
Moose. The only time you produced any evidence to support anything you said is when you went through all my posts and counted how many times I said gammon It's a bit late to start claiming the high ground on evidential based argument now
And hilariously and most deliciously you chose to highlight a thread in which you and others insisted that a young woman competing in Strictly was disabled, and quoted Olympic competition categories (not Ellie herself, or WHO documentation) that have nothing to do with ballroom dancing (or anything else outside of sport) to prove she is disabled. Some even went on to say, and I do paraphrase here, ‘of course she is disabled, she’s a dwarf.’ There is a word for people who can tell what a person is just by looking at them, or who choose to categorise a person based on a physical characteristic (so CRT). Dare I push the counter to 45? Or should I just say bigoted instead, as in “the bigotry of low expectations”? The fact you have no idea when you do it is simply wonderful. You people are the only ones who can’t see how awful you are. Would anyone have described Stephen Hawking as disabled if he’d turned up on Mastermind? Oh dear. Wrong question. Some of you probably would.
Hooter, you have had your arse embarrassingly kicked on this thread. It’s no good resorting, as ever, to personal attacks, backed up by fearful little troll with his ‘likes’. Your position is ludicrous. That Trump could have prevented war by simple weight of his charm. That Biden allowed it to happen by simultaneously being weak, but also a war monger. You have crocodile tears for Ukraine that you prefer not to have fought back and won’t support now. In fact you are hostile to supporting it. That you believe should have simply acquiesced to Russian demands and partitioned the Country. You have nothing to say about the likely consequences of that. You don’t even factor in Russian aggression and destabilisation in the preceding years that Trump did what about exactly? What was Trump’s view of the shooting down of Flight MH-17 by Russian backed separatists that killed 298? He declined to blame Putin in any way. https://www.businessinsider.com/flight-mh17-attack-father-slams-trump-putin-summit-2018-7
If appeasement works then the soft response by a Democrat President to the Russian invasion of Crimea in 2014 would have been the end of story. The fact is that the Russian state has continued to destabilise Ukraine by supporting the "rebels" in the south of the country. And Putin has specifically said that Ukraine is not a real country and is historically part of Russia (wrong). All the clues were there that an invasion of Ukraine was extremely likely following Russian success in Crimea. You could argue that a Democrat President did not do all he could to prevent this war but that would be Obama not Biden. But, to be fair, nobody in the west had the appetite to confront Putin in any meaningful way in 2014.
Because everyone knew only military intervention would have had any sort of effect…a messianic nationalist with Putin’s type of worldview will push and push and until that happens the pushing will simply continue.
Where does Ukraine’s sovereignty, territorial integrity and the wishes of its citizens factor into this? Appears to be no where. You’re advocating carving a country up against its wishes like some sort of 19th century great powers smoking room stitch up. You’re not the only voice advocating this but it sounds pretty shameful to me. A grubby deal to save our backsides now, pushing the cost down the line (because the likes of Putin will never stop) along with shredding our reputation forever. I don’t welcome war at all. It’s ******* scary, especially if it leads to our direct involvement. But I’d rather we stood for something than bent over for the likes of Putin. And if we don’t stand up for and defend the post-WW2 world order then there will be bigger things to worry about than a few years of high gas prices.
It's been his modus operandi for years, it takes supreme ignorance to claim that the current war could've been avoided. He tested these tactics as far back as 2008, by annexing Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia, then stepped it up by taking Crimea. Putin literally said that Ukraine had no right to exist, as it was part of Russia and he was just returning it to its historic borders. People who argue that this war could've been avoided or Putin was somehow provoked are his useful idiots. Of course, it's always presented as 'I am no lover of Putin but...', however that's just a rather weak rhetorical device to try and sound more balanced.
And you are advocating that the rest of the world suffer because Joe Biden wants regime change in Russia, and to destroy Europe’s cheapest energy supply. You can wrap it up in whatever words you like, but when you review the situation and the death and destruction that has been caused, your calling for Joe Biden not to prevent the the war ‘because there is nothing he can do’, when you yourself have suggested something that may have worked, is pretty clearly the act of a war hawk, of the type that may be described as a gammon. Would you really say that ceding territory in the Ukraine would have been worse for EVERYBODY involved than this war with its hundreds of thousands of deaths, world wide economic fall out and threats of Armageddon? But what about the sovereignty Hooter? I’m just glad that all of a sudden you think sovereignty is important, because there are a few Brexiteers on here that will find your desperate argument very ironic. I am sure they will consider you with similar contempt to that which you showed them. As a Briton living in the UK, I am most concerned about our sovereignty. But I would expect a French, German, US, Russian resident to value and respect it, but ultimately to believe that it can be bargained away for the greater good. Just like the EU are trying to wangle in Northern Ireland right now. Heck, you even stated that the EU should be involved in the Brexit referendum! You, the EU and the US worried about sovereignty? Flat earthers, the lot of you.
Interesting to see that among those people who liked this post are some that stated that ceding territory could have avoided the war. I can take it if people want to tell me I am an idiot, particularly if I am being called an idiot for recognising that practically everything you guys say contradicts practically everything you guys have already said. War hawks and Gammons. Words that have been used to describe people with lust and unquestioning support for a particular war with very specific political objectives in the past. I would add to it Flat Earthers, because you are all clearly arguing against something you have argued yourselves, and believe to be true. It is not me or anyone else you are trying to kid. It is yourselves.
Come on brains trust. Do you believe the current cost of this war, let alone any future global costs in life, economy and ecology, is better worth paying than ceding Ukraine territory to the Russians? Particularly when those concessions could have been linked to peace keeping accords and trade deals. I suspect that today is a good day to be ignoring me.
What is this flat earther thing you keep prattling on about? Must have missed that sideshow somewhere along the line. I’m sure it was a rip-roaring page turner of a debate though! In short, if you think this started with Biden you’re more demented than you (probably) think he is.
Hey, if you want to daydream about some perfect world where everyone gets what they want, we all live in everlasting peace and Putin stops having been granted Donbas and Luhansk in some sort of happy clappy Hollywood-ending of an international settlement as the credits roll, that’s entirely up to you. It must be a nice place to be mentally. I don’t think you can demand or expect others to drink the kool aid though.
?? WTF? Are you living in your perfect world right now then? The US could have tried to stop it, you have suggested a way in which you believe it could have been stopped (then said it couldn't be done), and, you never know, there may have been a compromise that worked. God forbid anyone from suggesting that, or being dissapointed because they didn't even try.
