Asylum Seekers To Be Sent To Rwanda

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by Moose, Apr 14, 2022.

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Is it a good idea to send asylum seekers to Rwanda?

  1. It’s a very bad idea

    14 vote(s)
    45.2%
  2. It’s a very good idea

    9 vote(s)
    29.0%
  3. It’s a dead cat to distract from Partygate

    8 vote(s)
    25.8%
  1. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Interesting this idea of Tories, Brexiteers etc, that because we have no land borders with anyone, then we don’t share the responsibility for refugees.

    Ok fine, then the UK should stop exporting weapons, because I’d suggest that you can’t do one and not take any responsibility for the other.
     
  2. No, no, we're English! We can absolutely have our cake and eat it!
     
  3. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Yes. They are coming from one safe country to another safe country, and it is their choice, as you accept above.

    Their needs for reaching the UK are not security or safety, or even to ensure they are catered for, and it certainly is not to gain asylum from the country they currently resided in prior to illegally departing it, despite it generously having offered to protect them pending processing.

    Therefore it is a choice based on economic preference, and not the safety of their person. It is a matter of preference, not survival.

    Whether that includes a family element, or a desire to be in a country that speaks English, is irrelevent (they have chosen to join their family in the UK, where they can play a role in maintaining that family, economically), because if there is a genuine imperative, they have legal options to achieve their goal more safely, quickly and securely.

    If you wish to say they do not have legal options, it will be impossible to take you seriously.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  4. reids

    reids First Team

    If it's so easy, please explain what a refugee in Calais can do to get here legally. Whilst you're at it can you provide a source for your outlandish claim that most refugees want to come over here and work in the "dark economy"?
     
  5. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Interesting that practically every other country in the world has policies based on the same concept. Again, a most typical absence of reality in this child like thinking.

    It is just an excuse for the EU to dogwhistle its foot soldiers into making a poorly disguised argument that the UK should take more of the EU's illegal immigrants.

    Watching this thread is like watching Watford under Boothroyd, where as much as we tried, we couldn't string two passes together. No one on here seems to understand that nothing exists in a vacuum, the concept of cause and effect, or that sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  6. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

  7. I think I can help here.
    Q1: Get bus to Lille, then train to Paris. Go to British Embassy, ask for visa. When they say no, retrace to Calais. Give the last of your savings to a people smuggler, then get into a wholly unsuitable rubber dinghy and cross channel to Hythe. At this point it is all totally legal.

    Q2: A fellow hospital porter told him, and it must be true because he is originally from Eritrea.
     
  8. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    A refugee in calais can await asylum in France and then apply to come to the UK, particularly if they have family here. That is the legal process we have been talking about.

    Not sure how you missed that. Or are you just trolling to get me to repeat myself?

    As for the dark economy; I cannot prove yhat most are ready to enter the "dark" economy (sweat shops, resteraunts, other cheep labour) but it does exist, and it is often illegal immigrants involved in it (see Leicester modern slavery), so though it is appropriate for you to pull me up my claim of 'most', I do feel it remains an important factor.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  9. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    This is the key. The law is very clear. They are entitled to claim asylum here even if they have travelled through "safe countries". It's not just UN convention or EU law, it is UK law:

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldjudgmt/jd080521/asfaw-2.htm

    So the UK government not providing the ability for people to make such applications offshore (as they are with Ukranians) is directly leading to the dangerous boat crossings.

    We are basically saying that you are entitled to apply but you have to be here to do so and we're not going to give you safe passage to get here!
     
    AndrewH63 and reids like this.
  10. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Fixed for you.
     
  11. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    OK, I'll leave you all to this one. The sheer naivety and rejection of reality is as frustrating as ever, but as I have said before. This place isn't used to gain understanding, it's just a self help group for people who are unable to face the realities of this world.

    Enjoy...
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  12. reids

    reids First Team

    So wait 3 months for the asylum process in France (the average amount of time for claims to be completed), with no guarantee of it being accepted, then apply to our government, wait the 6 months (at a cost of £2.5k) needed for claims to be dealt with, again with no guarantee of it being accepted. Simples.

    Easy to see why people pay to hop on a dinghy to come over, it skips the first couple of steps and the time/stress that would cause - whilst also abides by our laws and means they're legally able to claim asylum when they make it. I'm not sure (and can't seem to find out) whether if they claim asylum this way whether they have to pay the £2.5k fee that someone living in France would have to do, but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Whilst the crossings can indeed be dangerous, it's estimated that 28,381 people crossed the channel in dinghies last year, with 39 deaths out of those - meaning 0.13% of people who attempted the crossing died, so the odds are very much in their favour.

    All the more reason to grant them asylum then so that they no longer become illegal and can get a NI number so they can work in legal jobs that can contribute to the economy and pay taxes.
     
  13. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Last word.

    You are right that it is their choice. I have said that from the start.

    They now know that their choice may mean a spell in Rwanda waiting for the process to go through. I am happy for them to make that choice, as it appears are you. Self determination is a wonderful thing.

    Everyone is happy. :D
     
  14. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Except the land border with the Republic of Ireland. And the land borders for overseas territories areas like Gibraltar and the Cypriot military bases.
     
    Moose likes this.
  15. So you think anyone from anywhere in the world has the right to come and live and work in the UK?

    All 7.9 billion of them?

    Or if not, please tell me where your red line is, and we can have a go at calculating what that might in theory mean in numbers, house building, schools, hospitals, jobs, wage levels, food supplies, electricity needs etc
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
    iamofwfc likes this.
  16. That's not what I've said, which I think you know

    The small boat migrants enter EU borders, traverse through EU land, to get to the UK

    Few if any, I suspect, start off in Northern Ireland
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  17. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    The SBA's have really, really odd rules concerning 'Citizenship' unlike all the other British Overseas Territories. If a refugee lands in either Akrotiri and Dhekelia (somehow managing to evade all the maritime patrols guarding/patrolling the territories borders) ISTR they are 'held' by the military authorities/MPs/RNP/RAFP and then arrested by the civil SBA Police (for trespass), the Cypriot police are immediately informed and the refugees are then de-arrested by the SBA police and handed over to the Cypriot police who arrest them and then remove them from the SBA.
     
  18. Red line? A reasonable fair share. among developed countries who are in a position to help, of those who are fleeing persecution or threat to safety. Your red line: Only people who have access to private aeroplanes or Star Trek style transporters, and those occasional groups who have surprised the government by enjoying popular sympathy*

    * and even then we'll make it as difficult as possible while crowing about being world beating.
     
  19. It occurs to me that the most vocal 'we're full up' foghorns are basically admitting that Germany, France and Spain, who take 4x, 3x and 3x the refugees we do, are far more capable than we are. Oh, they will opine, those countries are much bigger than the UK. That might be valid if you could just park people in tents on a mountainside or in a forest or in the middle of a remote upland plateau. But you can't. Those countries need to provide housing, hospitals, schools, whatever. It's an admittance that we are not very good*

    *Of course this is basically untrue, we could easily cope if the will was there; but they need cover so they don't have to admit "don't like forriners".
     
  20. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    .... says virtue-signaller who accuses others a few posts earlier of this: "...attempt[ing] lame and impotent virtue signalling to facilitate political point scoring". The condescending arrogance continues...
     
    Moose likes this.
  21. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    The weather should be nice, at least.
     
  22. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    You appear to be replying to a totally unconected post to the one you quoted.

    The condescending detachment from reality continues...
     
  23. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    There it is. It's not about Rwanda or owt else, it is just the EU'S argument that the UK should be taking responsibility for the economic migrants their policies and ineptitude allow to cross their borders.

    No surprise to here this coming from anti UK remainers.
     
  24. Thats not a definition

    Come on don't be shy

    What is your definition of someone who should be granted asylum, and someone who shouldn’t?
     
  25. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    There’s a reasonable discussion to be had about what numbers of people are likely to seek asylum and who can be helped. The second part is disingenuous, as we don’t rationally look at the need we have now, while the very wealthy keep thousands upon thousands of acres to themselves, at least some of which could house many of their fellow citizens.

    But not all the World’s population is on the move and of those who seek asylum, for many it will be temporary. We can do our part rationally by working with other countries to share the burden, make applying easier and have faster decisions. We could have a reasonable capacity and receive in return people we need to work.

    Until we actually try this we don’t know how difficult it would be. What we have now is a system deliberately broken for political ends.
     
  26. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Back to highlight an interesting point.

    Whose example are we following? And who is it that has been deferring asylum seekers, genuine ones coming out of war torn countries (not the economic migrants we will be sending), to Rwanda to await processing, for many years now?

    I give you the EU...

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/2...s-are-pushing-refugees-all-the-way-to-rwanda/

    Comments please, remainers and virtue signallers...
     
  27. reids

    reids First Team

    I, like most remainers on here I'd imagine are against such schemes whether in the EU or out of the EU. Although it does raise the interesting point that if the Tories are claiming they are delivering on their Brexit pledge of "taking back our borders" but such schemes were obviously within the remit of EU membership....what was the point in Brexit?
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  28. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Immigration for non-EU nationals has always been up to individual EU member states. Anyone claiming the "the EU" is preventing/controlling immigration is lying.

    We could of implemented the "Rwanda solution" within the EU. Indeed Denmark are in the process of doing the same...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-61106231.amp

    It is surprising that there are still people that don't understand what the EU is and what competency are still definitely under the control of it's member states.
     
  29. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Freedom from tyranny mate, didn't you know?
     
  30. I heard the vile virgin Widdecombe on the radio this morning that Jesus would have been all for the Rwanda plan because he was "not part of the establishment".

    [​IMG]
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  31. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Seems the federalisation, EU Army, extremist politics on left and right being facilitated by the electoral systems and the EU's lack of will to fight it, etc., completely passed you by.

    Never mind though. If you don't understand why people voted for Brexit by now, you never will. It's funny, coming from the left the traditional home of idealism, that if there is no tangible benefit, there are no benefits at all.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  32. I'm withholding my like because of that final "it's".
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  33. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    The single male, brown skinned refugee that would be sent to Rwanda if he tried to obtain refugee status here? That one?
     
  34. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    How utterly trite, both you and Widdecombe.

    Shouldn't that read "Welcome to Rwanda. You are most welcome"

    Or,

    "Welcome to France. Please proceed straight to the UK, because refugees are not welcome here and we will make your life hell."

    or,

    "Didn't you like it in France?"

    or

    "Didn't you know Herrod died a couple of thousand years ago?"
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  35. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Fair.
     

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