And don’t even get me started on the Jota penalty earlier, an absolute joke of a call. Yet Lloris wiped out Pedro and nothing, lol.
Officials just go with their own personal bias. It’s at Chelsea , so the thought process is I’ve got to be 100% right. If it’s Watford the thought process is, it’s only Watford so it doesn’t matter. This is how big club bias is formed. In this incident if it’s a big club they look for reasons to disallow. If it’s a small club they look for reasons to give it.
Yep another good example. Big club bias again. This is what we have to contend with. It’s always been like this, but now with VAR is obvious how it all operates and is undeniable.
Are Norwich a big club then ? After all they benefited on Friday . Chelsea bigger club then Spurs ? Don’t say that down White Hart Lane .
In denial about what? I think we didn’t and haven’t played well enough. My comment was purely about you suggesting stats mean nothing. But that’s clearly not true in a lot of football situations. Some are more relevant than others and they don’t tell the whole story, but they are a part of the story. The Norwich part was a fairly irrelevant point on my part, but what I was saying is we hardly got played off the park and 3-0 was a harsh score line good performance or not.
Exactly.! How many games have we played where we say this... "we didn't seem up for it and they gave more and had a game plan?. We do play some good football at times but in the main our main issues seem to be.... 1) we seem to believe we can play out most of a game at 70% with the odd flourish here and there. 2) we play most of our attacking play too intricately and "miss flick" far too many hopeful balls so it continually breaks down. Then we get countered and look all over the place. 3) OK sissoko is decent and gets around but we never really look "comfortsble" across midfield. 4) a cross the park our close-up ball control when closed down is poor and passing gets scrappy. 5) we look like a low confidence U23 team. We desperately need a CM dynamo and a manager who can motivate and set up a team and motivate.
Chelsea now have a player rugby tackled in the penalty area. Arms all over him but he wins the free kick. Of course Sierralta does that at Leicester and it’s a penalty.
I didn’t suggest stats mean ‘nothing’. I said football is played on a pitch and not on a stats board - and we all saw what happened on the pitch. No point throwing around a load of meaningless stuff to try and make it softer on ourselves.
I am a big VAR fan, but the authorities really need to sort out the way they interpret it. I've just seen the Kane goal disallowed because he was adjudged to have pushed the Chelsea defender, and yet no foul was given for the virtually identical push that Pukki gave Samir on Friday night. This is because both decisions went to VAR, but the difference was that as the referees decision's were not CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERRORS in both cases their decision's stood. This of course means that as the referee gave a foul against Kane his goal is disallowed, but because in our game the referee did not give a foul against Pukki the resultant goal that Sargent scored was allowed, how ridiculous is that!!! Both pushes were virtually identical but because the referee gave a foul in the Spurs match Kane's goal is disallowed, however in our case because the referee did not give a foul against Pukki, then Sargent's goal stood. HOW THE **** CAN THAT BE RIGHT If we are going to use VAR then it should be used strictly according to the laws of football, this CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR THING should not come into it. Why should VAR give the on pitch referee the benefit of the doubt? All that should matter is whether their decision was RIGHT or WRONG!!! If it is a foul according to the laws of football it is a foul and if it is not a foul it is not a foul it should be as simple as that!!
Yes it is hard to believe. Fans being behind them makes no difference, as seen on Friday. I’m fed up with words as they are hollow and meaningless. Show it on the pitch, that’s the only place where it counts. Saying sorry afterwards doesn’t cut it anymore.
No no, he just said they work every day. Including the days the club give them off so they can bin off the coach the players don’t like.
It sounds like you haven’t been following the VAR narrative over the last few years. The football authorities don’t want to take away the authority of the on-pitch ref, so they don’t want VAR to rule on every foul or even all those involved in goal/penalty situations. In their eyes the ref is the ultimate authority and it’s only if he makes the famed ‘clear and obvious error’ that he will be advised to reconsider. (Of course it’s a farce when he goes to review an incident on the screen - he is never going to go against VAR who has just told him they think he has made a ‘clear and obvious error’.) So it doesn’t matter how much of a fan of VAR you are because you are right that it is not resolving any inconsistency between similar incident judged differently by different refs in different matches.
Massive. They won the League Cup in 1962. The final was against Rochdale. And again against Sunderland.
I kind of agree with you, and I am not advocating that VAR should intervene with every little decision. However if VAR becomes involved then it should have the final decision and stick strictly to the laws of football and NOT be hamstrung by this "CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR THING" which gives the on field ref the benefit of the doubt, because the on fields refs decision is either RIGHT OR WRONG and that should be it.
The Voice of Reason added stats from the Norwich game on the thread discussing the Norwich game. In that particular post he wasn’t massively suggesting all is rosey because of these stats, he was just adding conversation. You essentially shot him down with your one line comment and in return I was pointing out that stats do show, in part, what happens on the pitch. Not aimed purely at you here, but there is an element at the moment of people getting belittled for how they feel about the club, manager or team on this forum from a minority of posters. I like this forum as a whole and the fact most posters seem to be adults also makes it quite a good read throughout. So it’s a little disappointing that all of a sudden people are getting called ‘idiots’ (as an example) for not seeing something in the exact same way.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the awarding of free kicks there is no absolute right or wrong no matter how much you would like there to be. It is (and has always been) down to the judgement of the ref or, these days, the VAR. The problem is that, increasingly, people have not been prepared to accept that judgement and the variation in interpretation and are desperately looking for some alternative in the form of technology. There isn’t one.
In the main it is a very subjective system as the decision to rule out Kane goal and not the one on Friday shows. Not sure how the ref in the Liverpool game went from not giving a penalty to awarding it after looking at the screen as clearly he didn't miss anything major.
That is why the VAR refs are more likely to get it right as they get to see replays etc. and they also have technology to help them as well which should virtually eliminate the variation in interpretation. The only problem VAR have at present is this "Clear and obvious Error Directive" which compels them to give the on field referee the benefit of the doubt, even if they can clearly see that the on field ref has got it wrong according to the strict interpretation of the laws of the game. VAR should have the final say and they should overrule the on field ref if he has got it wrong according to THE STRICT laws of the game. Therefore if the "Clear and Obvious Directive" is removed and replaced with a directive telling VAR to stick strictly to the laws of the game when making their final decision, then the correct decision should be arrived at 99.9% of the time.
I know it does Burnsy, Im on here a lot even if I don’t post all the time, so I’ve seen all the arguments - COGs v Bedwetters etc. Differing views I’m cool with, the name calling and attempts to make others look ‘stupid’ ‘moronic’ ‘idiotic’ etc purely because they see it in a different way is poor in my opinion. As I say I enjoy the forum on the whole, in fact for me, someone who lives outside of Watford and always has done I learn a lot on here about the history, I like that there are a few who have links to snippets of information etc, it’s great. Things always blow up more after a bad result or a bad season, it’s people having different ways of coping. So if someone wants to remain positive and still believe in the owners, the manager, certain players etc then surely that’s their right without having to be made to feel small about it? And, of course, it works both ways.
I'm not sure there's ever been a strict interpretation of the laws of the game. Nor is it really desirable or we'd never see a match as the referee would constantly be stopping play to deal with infringements. So I don't think that test works either. And with your bit I've highlighted in bold, I don't think you're right that VAR ignores errors by the on field referee where they can see he's wrong. But where it's a matter of interpretation, context or opinion - which a lot of potential infringements involve in football, including the Samir/Pukki coming together - then I think it's right the on field ref should have the final call.
Surely the VAR ref has a more accurate view of the facts with his access to all the technology, there fore I have the opposite opinion to you, I think the VAR ref should be able to overrule the on field ref and have the final say.
