Ranieri Sacked

Yes, you have been lucky with the Srivaddhanaprabha. It may not be solely based on money. However, finance does play an extremely significant part. Leicester may have signed Kante for 5 million, but it does help when you can also sign the likes of Tielemans for 40 million and Fofana for 30 million. In fairness, arguably, the only thing the Pozzo's are credible at is signing players cheap and selling them on for large profits. Richarlison, Doucoure, Rodrigo de Paul, Alexis Sanchez, and Bruno Fernandes, to name a few. In fact, from South American scouting alone, they have spent 40 million and made £244m million from selling. João Pedro will probably be a superstar, and we have just signed a 17-year old that already has caps for Columbia. The difference with Watford is we have to buy and sell to survive. We don't have the luxury of a multi-billionaire owner. We can't add numerous 30 or 40 million pound signings to play alongside the players we have scouted; we rely on scouting our whole squad on the cheap and can't pay anywhere the same amount of wages.

 

Spot on. But don’t tell our fans that. They need as many excuses for the owners as possible.

 

Mate, we spent nearly £20m on Andre Gray.

 

I know, but plenty of teams have done bad business, including Leicester. How often have we paid anywhere near 20 million for a player? We rarely do because we can't afford to do so. I think its very naive to say lets follow the same model as clubs who have multi billionaire owners. Yes I think our model needs to be altered but it shouldn't follow clubs who are far richer and have way more resources.

 

In fairness I think it’s the law that the corner flag image can only be used on a Sunday. Inconvenient for Pozzo that the Norwich game was on a Friday really.

 

The point is, we’ve had the money but not used it correctly. Again, not the same money as the big boys but enough to give us a reasonable defence.

It’s not the same as spending £30m/£40m in every position as you appear to be suggesting we have to do.

 

They may as well appoint the corner flag as the new Head Coach.

 

Leicester have bought their fair share of Turkeys as well

 

Well, it isn't what I am suggesting. I pointed out that Leicester's and Brighton's success is not solely 'shrewd business'' but significantly related to the amount of money they have spent. Ghugill seems to overlook that Brighton has spent approximately £330 million in the last five seasons and Leicester have spent about £440 million on transfers in that time. He seems to have pointed to Justin and Kante signings but conveniently not mentioned a whole host of more expensive signings, some of which haven't been intelligent business at all but crap. They have lost money on some signings.

 

Plenty of them bring their own red flags.

 

Sovereign states go cheap, these days.

 

Our players prefer white flags

 

But it does help when your owner is worth $5 billion. Mind you Stan Kroenke is worth $11 billion and Arsenal have had a miserable last ten years.

 

A couple of season’s ago you had the ability to sign Sarr for £30 million.

We have the ability to sign the likes of Tielemans and Fofana for those amounts, all through the progress of the club, what we’ve achieved and our strategy as a club. When we first got promoted, we didn’t have the ability to splash out on a £30-£40 million players, that ability built up in time. Instead we made shrewd signings like Marc Albrighton, Danny Simpson and Robert Huth, the combination of those three cost us £5 million. The season we won the league, we still operated in a shrewd manner, Kante cost £5 million, Okazaki similar.

As you’ve said regarding the Pozzo’s, they’ve shown they have the ability of signing players cheap and selling them on for a big profit; however the key is that they don’t do it often enough. For every talent like Joao Pedro, you then get gifted some average folk from Udinese.

As I said previously, with Leicester signing shrewd quality players like James Justin, those type of signings work absolute wonders. You’ve seen it with Brighton plucking players that are British based, Crystal Palace did it over the summer by getting Gallagher on loan and signing Olise and Guehi permanently. They also nabbed Will Hughes from you guys, plus the season beforehand they signed Eze.

That’s the type of formula Watford need, overloading the squad with players from Udinese, and players who will give you zero sell on value is poor operating. What the board have done with your defence and midfield this season is quite frankly a disgrace.

 

You can't tell our fans this. They get all defensive.

 

Brilliant post. Hopefully some of our imbecilic fans will take time to reflect rather than supporting Pozzo blindly. Highly doubtful of course.

 

Yes I am well aware of the boards shortcomings. But, I'm afraid I disagree that we should follow the model of two clubs who has spent an absolute fortune and have finances we could only dream of. Leicester may have done 'shrewd business', but they have also spent approximately £4440 million in the past five seasons. Brighton has spent just over £330 million over the last five seasons. It just seems ridiculous to suggest that a club with an owner who is worth a reported £120 million can 'easily' copy the model of a club with a multi-billionaire owner.

 

It is hardly a brilliant post; I am not even trying to defend the Pozzo's. I am simply arguing that we can't just follow the models of Leicester and Brighton because both of these clubs have multibillionaire owners and have spent hundreds of millions. Regardless of what Ghugill says about Leicesters intelligent business, it certainly helps when you have an owner worth billions of pounds and have spent over 400 million in the last five seasons. Their model isn't solely built on progress and stability, as this geezer has claimed it largely down to finances. **** it Man City are doing quite well why don't we just follow their model?

 

It’s a great post because it illustrates that sensible spending is possible. Pozzo wastes money left right and centre. Whether it’s operational expenses, keeping Mogi Bayet happy, issuing contract extensions to poor old players or shuffling money to Udinese.

Pozzo is awful in terms of deployment of our revenue. But that isn’t why I want him out. His incompetence is just a sideshow:

 

Regardless of the Pozzo's, it is a load of rhetoric nonsense that Leicester always does good business; they have wasted money on players. I am not convinced that they have been able to pay substantial fees because of the club's progress. In reality, it's more likely because their owner is a multi-billionaire. They have spent over 400 million in the last five seasons. As I say, Brighton has spent £330 million during the previous five seasons, so, in my opinion, his point regarding their so-called shrewd business is inaccurate when the reality is they have spent hundreds of millions. We would never be able to emulate Brighton or Leicesters structure even if we wanted to with Gino in charge. Despite what Ghuill says, their system relies on spending a substantial amount of money.

 

Much nicer clubs though? I hate the club I used to love.

 

Just a thought, Ranieri is double the age of Kucka. He's lived the whole of Kucka's life, twice. He is freaking old and I think we've started to see in football that players need younger managers, who's experiences of football are a bit more recent and they can relate to a bit.

An extreme example but Zidane is only 49 and many of his old Real Madrid squad probably grew up watching him, knew who he was, what he did and listened when he spoke. He's not really a great tactician, just a fantastic motivator and commanded the respect of the dressing room. I don't think Ranieri commands that from our squad.

 

Yes, I would be lying if I didn't say that I envy Leicester and I also can't stand the club. I have actually removed all of my Watford memorabilia around the house to a wardrobe because I can't stand to look at it. It feels like a bad break up lol.

 

You seem to be missing the point I’m making.

Yes we’ve had the opportunity to spend big amounts over the past few years; however it’s been through a clear structure and a shrewd model that works. As I’ve said already, in the 2014/15 season and in the 2015/16 season, we didn’t have the ability to spend big, all you need to do is look at our title winning squad, the overall amount of our squad back then probably cost the same as your squad now.

Then through success and the transfer dealings of Kante, Mahrez, Drinkwater, Maguire & Chilwell, that’s allowed us the ability to spend big on the likes of Tielemans & Fofana.

A couple of season’s ago you had similar ability, you signed Sarr for £30 million, you signed numerous players in the 10-15 million bracket.

You already said you got good sell on value for Doucoure & Richarlison, same can be said for someone like Ighalo.

But in that period you signed Success, Pereyra & Deulofeu for decent amounts, all of which are now at Udinese. You ended up signing Andre Gray, amongst others who had no real sell on value.

Leicester have made mistakes, all clubs make mistakes, but more often than not our formula has worked. We end up selling a player for double/triple than what we paid, he then gets replaced with someone who will end up going for double/triple than what we paid, it’s a successful domino cycle.

Apart from selling Richarlison and getting in Sarr, Watford haven’t been able to do the Leicester kind of formula, because recruitment simply hasn’t been good enough.

Will any of the players who you’ve signed this season have any real sell on value? I doubt it.

 

Leicester have way more money than Watford and can afford to get their signings wrong. If Watford makes a terrible judgment on a signing, it has more negative impact than Leicester because we haven't the resources and finance. The title season was a miracle and a one-off, and I am not entirely convinced that the only reason you have been able to sign players with substantial fees is that you have sold players for profit. I would say that you have a multi-billionaire owner who is happy to spend money. The thing is, we probably couldn't afford those signings in truth. We were effectively building up debt and would have been in severe difficulties if we hadn't been promoted, as we didn't have a sugar daddy to fall back on. And yes we signed Dennis for 3 million.

Anyway I am too stoned now to debate it. Good luck

 

If you’re stoned, I’m not surprised you keep missing the point I’m making

Our owners didn’t put their hands in their pockets in our first two season’s back in the Premier League.

Mahrez - £450,000, sold for £60 million.
Kante - £5.6 million, sold for £32 million.
Drinkwater - £1 million, sold for £34 million
Maguire - £17 million, sold for £80 million
Chilwell - Academy Product, sold for £45 million

More will follow.

That’s how we’ve managed to spend big on the likes of Tielemans & Fofana, not because our owners were willing to throw their hands in their pockets.

As @GoingDown said, you’ve had the money, you just haven’t used it correctly on a regular basis. Richarlison to Sarr is the only time where the Pozzo’s have got it properly right.

 

Anger and despair, I would think, but certainly not apathy, in my view.

 

Drinkwater £34m

 

Yes, I think so, too. But he wouldn't be sorting our defence out.

 

Yes so that equates to 251 million which is extremely impressive. However that is still £189 million less than what Leicester have spent over the past five seasons.

 

What is an ‘academy product’?

 

A big question the hierarchy to ask themselves is whether their approach to coaching is still fit for purpose. My contention is that at least some of our players suffer from a lack of appropriate and particularly personal coaching because of the deliberate lack of personalisation built into the system with the hire/fire process.
And, on a tactical level, if the Board are unable to determine and ensure a coherence of style and the players to enact it (which I was given to understand was the basis of this system) then they must employ a coach who is allowed to do it. But this, as most clubs find out, is also a risky business. The Graham Taylors of this World are a rare breed.

 

In our first two season’s back in the Prem, we didn’t spend over £10 million on a player, because we didn’t have the ability to do so.

Through progress, success and terrific transfer dealings as I mentioned, we’ve been able to recruit players for £30-40 million. Our formula though has never been about throwing money about, we sign a player who will have good sell on value, then try and replace him with someone who will also have good sell on value. It doesn’t work all of the time, but it’s worked more often than not, hence why we’ve had the ability to progress as a club, because the way we operate is shrewd.

Whatever you think, Leicester simply don’t have the ability to compete with the ‘Big Six’ on a financial level. We know we’ll end up losing players to those kind of teams, we know we probably won’t get into Europe season on season, that will more than likely impact us going forward, Tielemans for example will more than likely leave in the summer.

But then it comes to that domino cycle again, will we be able to recruit a replacement who has good sell on value.

Regardless whether Watford have less money than Leicester, it’s a doable pattern. You did it with Richarlison.

But when you end up selling Ighalo for example, only to then back his sale up by signing Andre Gray, there’s your problem.

 

I think Leicester have been smarter in the transfer market than we have but for every Vardy/Mahrez there has been a Slimani/Ayoze. For every Fofana a Vestergaard. You sold Chilwell and got in Castagne. @Filbert has been lamenting Leicester’s recruitment on here for a while, particularly under Rodgers/Congerton.