New Signings

[wfcmoog]

This has been done to death by idiots far more annoying than you. please don't join them.

I agree, its getting a bit tedious now. The sort of thing you would expect from a 12 year old who doesn't know when to shut up as the joke is no longer funny.

i don't think it will ever be tedious.

[With A Smile]

yes.....let's not write off Aldred.....as he has not played yet either....ooops...he's now gone!! Deeney will score a sackful and Walker will be first name on the team sheet when he gets back off his loan, I suppose?

After watching football for as long as I have.....you just get an instinct for these things. 99 out of 100 times, that instinct is proved correct.

If Bauben had been good enough, Hogg would not have been signed. He's turned out to be an Asda's Rich Tea biscuit...just not good enough. Iwelumo is on his way down rapidly. You have to wonder why Burnley wanted to get rid of him, without a fee, when he still had two years to run on his contract. That should have rang alarm bells. Yeates is very up and down in form. I think once he loses his place in the side, and he will, he could become disruptive in the dressing room. He seems to be that type of player.

I think Dyche has bought well though with other signings, and I can see the type he goes for is a player with aggression. Hogg, Yeates, Mirfin, Dickinson and Garner can all be a bit nasty. I like that, as long as it's controlled.

Some good points, but there are always going to be examples of how these things can be wrong.

McGinn was a write off when he came. He wasn't good enough, wasn't strong enough and wasn't going to cut it in the English league. Now we are counting the days till he is back. Much was said about Cowie in his first dozen games.

Just because Bauben hasn't featured yet doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to be a failiure.

I'm not sure why you think Yates could be disruptive in the changing room. So far he seems to have done OK. If his goal had stood at Coventry then im sure many would be talking about him differently.

Imolumu (sp) i think at the time was a good signing. maybe alarm bells should have rung when Burnley let him go with 2 years left on his contract, maybe, but Howe was only having the same clear out that Aidy did with teh older players when he came.

With 9 players in we were never going to start with all 9, someone was always going to get left out which was always going to raise questions about had we bought a duff or not. I'm sure 1 or 2 of the 9 may well be, but if 7 of the 9 aren't then things aren't that bad

[kokomo]

Some good points, but there are always going to be examples of how these things can be wrong.

McGinn was a write off when he came. He wasn't good enough, wasn't strong enough and wasn't going to cut it in the English league. Now we are counting the days till he is back. Much was said about Cowie in his first dozen games.

Just because Bauben hasn't featured yet doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to be a failiure.

I'm not sure why you think Yates could be disruptive in the changing room. So far he seems to have done OK. If his goal had stood at Coventry then im sure many would be talking about him differently.

Imolumu (sp) i think at the time was a good signing. maybe alarm bells should have rung when Burnley let him go with 2 years left on his contract, maybe, but Howe was only having the same clear out that Aidy did with teh older players when he came.

With 9 players in we were never going to start with all 9, someone was always going to get left out which was always going to raise questions about had we bought a duff or not. I'm sure 1 or 2 of the 9 may well be, but if 7 of the 9 aren't then things aren't that bad

A sensible post. Last season we were all aware of the fact that our squad was paper thin and over reliant on pushing through the youngsters. We were fortunate that we did not suffer a string of injuries, and McGinn's misfortunate is the worst injury of type that we have suffered for a very long time.

This season we have, for the first time in two/three years some,depth to the squad - and there are still complaints! If any player doesn't come up to the mark or loses form then they know they will be replaced. We have genuine competition for places and cover for injuries. So what that Prince Buaben hasn't featured yet, or that Matty Wichelow is struggling to make the bench. We've only played five games, and with 41 still remaining over a long winter we will need that strength in depth and all of these players will play their part.

[steve harrow]

yes.....let's not write off Aldred.....as he has not played yet either....ooops...he's now gone!! Deeney will score a sackful and Walker will be first name on the team sheet when he gets back off his loan, I suppose?

After watching football for as long as I have.....you just get an instinct for these things. 99 out of 100 times, that instinct is proved correct.

If Bauben had been good enough, Hogg would not have been signed. He's turned out to be an Asda's Rich Tea biscuit...just not good enough. Iwelumo is on his way down rapidly. You have to wonder why Burnley wanted to get rid of him, without a fee, when he still had two years to run on his contract. That should have rang alarm bells. Yeates is very up and down in form. I think once he loses his place in the side, and he will, he could become disruptive in the dressing room. He seems to be that type of player.

I think Dyche has bought well though with other signings, and I can see the type he goes for is a player with aggression. Hogg, Yeates, Mirfin, Dickinson and Garner can all be a bit nasty. I like that, as long as it's controlled.

I've seen Buaben play dozens of times and whilst he was the lesser player with Gomis (since gone to Birmingham City), I have every confidence he will come good when he gets used to this level and our set up. As said by others, think McGinn and Cowie.

And unless you have some personal first hand knowledge of Yeates, suggesting he could become a disruptive influence in the dressing room is, at best, churlish.

Getting back to Moog's point, I disagree in the main. Every club has different needs at different times. The Academy can never guarantee to produce 11 starting players in their respective positions every so often. And we can only blood so many at a time. Obviously, Dyche became the new boss this summer and we lost a number of first team/squad players so he was always likely to want some of his own people brought in. This and the reduction in sub numbers is why we have less Academy players in the match day squad but let's cherry pick the best young guys and use them sensibly, not out of desperation as was the case in the last couple of years. They can flit in and out of the squad as appropriate.

[YellowKicks]

I struggle to cope with the sanity behind some of the views of a minority of our fans. Yeates was our MOTM and absolutely outstanding in our first two games of the season, in fact his only poor performance was that against a very good full back in David Murphy, to say he was a pointless signing is plain stupid. Buaben hasn't even started yet and people our writing him off, a player who teams far greater than ourselves wanted, hopefully its the same genius's that wanted us to terminate Lansbury and Mutch's loan due to them being so poor.

The negativity with us actually having strength in depth for the first time in a long time also puzzles me, to survive in the division this year, the youngsters won't be enough, I can assure you that. Out of Moog's list, i'd say only Wichelow and Sordell are good enough currently for this level, both of which i'm sure we'll see a lot of this season. I would like to see Thompson back mind you.

We certainly need another wide player, and I suspect Cotterill is on his way, after of which, we will have the makings of a good Championship team, but more importantly, 2 good championship teams. Who knows, this could pay dividends later in the season, and we might see a higher finish than normal.

[J.B]

I struggle to cope with the sanity behind some of the views of a minority of our fans. Yeates was our MOTM and absolutely outstanding in our first two games of the season, in fact his only poor performance was that against a very good full back in David Murphy, to say he was a pointless signing is plain stupid. Buaben hasn't even started yet and people our writing him off, a player who teams far greater than ourselves wanted, hopefully its the same genius's that wanted us to terminate Lansbury and Mutch's loan due to them being so poor.

The negativity with us actually having strength in depth for the first time in a long time also puzzles me, to survive in the division this year, the youngsters won't be enough, I can assure you that. Out of Moog's list, i'd say only Wichelow and Sordell are good enough currently for this level, both of which i'm sure we'll see a lot of this season. I would like to see Thompson back mind you.

We certainly need another wide player, and I suspect Cotterill is on his way, after of which, we will have the makings of a good Championship team, but more importantly, 2 good championship teams. Who knows, this could pay dividends later in the season, and we might see a higher finish than normal.

It's not the new signings that have restricted opportunities in the first team for our youth players; it's the reduction in maximum amounts of subs which is just a ridiculous, pointless decision that I expect to be reversed by next season.

[leighton buzzard horn]

It was the clubs that voted for the number of subs to be reduced, largely due to cost reasons.

[krisvad]

It was the clubs that voted for the number of subs to be reduced, largely due to cost reasons.

This I know - but I don't understand why clubs would vote against it completely. Why not put restrictions related to homegrown and youth.

There was never a rule that said you HAD to have 7 subs.

[folkestone orn]

yes.....let's not write off Aldred.....as he has not played yet either....ooops...he's now gone!! Deeney will score a sackful and Walker will be first name on the team sheet when he gets back off his loan, I suppose?

After watching football for as long as I have.....you just get an instinct for these things. 99 out of 100 times, that instinct is proved correct.

If Bauben had been good enough, Hogg would not have been signed. He's turned out to be an Asda's Rich Tea biscuit...just not good enough. Iwelumo is on his way down rapidly. You have to wonder why Burnley wanted to get rid of him, without a fee, when he still had two years to run on his contract. That should have rang alarm bells. Yeates is very up and down in form. I think once he loses his place in the side, and he will, he could become disruptive in the dressing room. He seems to be that type of player.

I think Dyche has bought well though with other signings, and I can see the type he goes for is a player with aggression. Hogg, Yeates, Mirfin, Dickinson and Garner can all be a bit nasty. I like that, as long as it's controlled.

It takes time for the players to gel, especially with so many changes, so is still very premature to be writing ANY of them off. Deeney, Walker and Aldred were all bought by Malky A lot of people on here have been watching football for a long time, so what says that you're instinct is any better than anyone elses?

Maybe Hogg was signed because Dyche doesn't want Walker? or maybe he just wants to build a squad with some depth? Or maybe he saw Hogg was available on the cheap and it was too good an opportunity to turn down. He must be a good player if you think so, especially as you've had one whole game to judge him on

You may well be proven right about Iwelumo, but Yeates has done ok so far and Bauben hasn't even had a chance yet.

[JLuck16]

hornetboy1 that's the worst post I've ever seen, none of them are poor signings yet, you have to wait a lot longer than 6 games to judge that! And Dyche has admitted that reading between the lines, are you taking the ****?!Really?!Please say you are?!

[hornetboy1]

It takes time for the players to gel, especially with so many changes, so is still very premature to be writing ANY of them off. Deeney, Walker and Aldred were all bought by Malky A lot of people on here have been watching football for a long time, so what says that you're instinct is any better than anyone elses?

Maybe Hogg was signed because Dyche doesn't want Walker? or maybe he just wants to build a squad with some depth? Or maybe he saw Hogg was available on the cheap and it was too good an opportunity to turn down. He must be a good player if you think so, especially as you've had one whole game to judge him on

You may well be proven right about Iwelumo, but Yeates has done ok so far and Bauben hasn't even had a chance yet.

Firstly I totally agree with you, this is a new side that needs time to gell, but football is ruthless. We are in the bottom three after 5 matches. That equates to 1 win and 4 loses. So, already we have wasted 4 matches which we will never be able to claim back. Games come thick and fast, and before you know it, another 5 would have been played, then another. Players have to hit the ground running or else you suffer as a club.

How do you know how many times I've watched Hogg? Being a little presumptuous I think. You make a very good point on the signing of Hogg and it could have been for the reasons you have stated.

You have the grace to admit I may be right about Iwelumo, but only because it coincides with you own view of him, but are happy to roll your eyes when you read something you don’t agree with. My opinion maybe correct or it maybe wrong, but I do not assume I know everything or my instinct is better than yours. It's just an opinion. I certainly don’t go around belittling other posters with a smug attitude, such as yours.

[hornetboy1]

hornetboy1 that's the worst post I've ever seen, none of them are poor signings yet, you have to wait a lot longer than 6 games to judge that! And Dyche has admitted that reading between the lines, are you taking the ****?!Really?!Please say you are?!

Please tell me what I have said that has so upset you, apart from you dont share that opinion.

I gave a balanced opinion, nothing more than that. Some bits were positive and some were less so. That is life. Nothing is completely brilliant and nothing is completely bad. It always has some balance. I have given an opinion on what I've seen so far. For clarity, Iwelumo has looked surprisngly ineffective, Yeates is very up and down in form, loses the ball too often and not as good as Buckley, Buaben is still "getting fit" but looks a little lightweight, Forsyth is a work in progress, but not yet of the quality of Cowie, Hogg is a superb signing, Dickinson is also an excellent signing but has not got the quality of Andy Taylor, Mirfin is a very good back up signing, Garner could be a good signing, but is a gamble, Weimann is an excellent loan signing.

So if that upset you, then tough, it is just an opinion, but I dont think I'm far wrong or have been unfair in what I've said.

[garethgardner]

Im guessing you boys are missing Malky

[zztop]

yes.....let's not write off Aldred.....as he has not played yet either....ooops...he's now gone!! Deeney will score a sackful and Walker will be first name on the team sheet when he gets back off his loan, I suppose?

After watching football for as long as I have.....you just get an instinct for these things. 99 out of 100 times, that instinct is proved correct.

If Bauben had been good enough, Hogg would not have been signed. He's turned out to be an Asda's Rich Tea biscuit...just not good enough. Iwelumo is on his way down rapidly. You have to wonder why Burnley wanted to get rid of him, without a fee, when he still had two years to run on his contract. That should have rang alarm bells. Yeates is very up and down in form. I think once he loses his place in the side, and he will, he could become disruptive in the dressing room. He seems to be that type of player.

I think Dyche has bought well though with other signings, and I can see the type he goes for is a player with aggression. Hogg, Yeates, Mirfin, Dickinson and Garner can all be a bit nasty. I like that, as long as it's controlled.

Well I don't think this was a bad post, I just happen to disagree with almost everything you've said.

When I think of how many signings at Watford have been written off by some fans after just a few games, or less, who have gone on to be very worthwhile, either with us or other clubs, I am bewildered (and somewhat annoyed) when I read such views.

However, I do not possess your remarkable instinct for picking players, 99 correct out of 100 is an instinct that even Sir AF would be proud of. Your talents are obviously wasted. I suggest you apply for the next "Director Of Football" role that comes up.

[folkestone orn]

Firstly I totally agree with you, this is a new side that needs time to gell, but football is ruthless. We are in the bottom three after 5 matches. That equates to 1 win and 4 loses. So, already we have wasted 4 matches which we will never be able to claim back. Games come thick and fast, and before you know it, another 5 would have been played, then another. Players have to hit the ground running or else you suffer as a club.

How do you know how many times I've watched Hogg? Being a little presumptuous I think. You make a very good point on the signing of Hogg and it could have been for the reasons you have stated.

You have the grace to admit I may be right about Iwelumo, but only because it coincides with you own view of him, but are happy to roll your eyes when you read something you don’t agree with. My opinion maybe correct or it maybe wrong, but I do not assume I know everything or my instinct is better than yours. It's just an opinion. I certainly don’t go around belittling other posters with a smug attitude, such as yours.

I am reserving judgement on Iwelumo, as I am with all the new signings. So no, your view doesn't coincide with mine. You may or may not be right about all of the new signings. I don't agree with you saying that Walker, Deeney and Aldred are new signings either. I don't have a smug attitude. It was a reaction to your condescending attitude. When you say that 99% of the time your instinct is correct and clearly many others agree that it is too early to write off new players, then it implies you know better than them.

Ok, maybe i did assume you haven't seen Hogg play much, however, not every player fits in at every club. Hopefully he build on his encouraging start with us.

Agreed that the way the side have started is a concern. The thing is, in the last couple of seasons we have been used to overachieving at the beginning of the season. We tend to tail off in the last couple of months, due to having a small, inexperienced squad. Hopefully, with the experienced players Dyche has brought, it will go the other way and results will start picking up.

I just don't understand how quick people are to react in such a negative way, when clearly it is too early to be making judgements.

[hornetboy1]

Well I don't think this was a bad post, I just happen to disagree with almost everything you've said.

When I think of how many signings at Watford have been written off by some fans after just a few games, or less, who have gone on to be very worthwhile, either with us or other clubs, I am bewildered (and somewhat annoyed) when I read such views.

However, I do not possess your remarkable instinct for picking players, 99 correct out of 100 is an instinct that even Sir AF would be proud of. Your talents are obviously wasted. I suggest you apply for the next "Director Of Football" role that comes up.

That's totally fine. I'm happy for you to disagree with me and that's healthy. However, I would like to make something clear and I think there has been a misunderstanding. I have not written off any player, not even Iwelumo. They can all come good with coaching and time. I was merely giving an opinion on what I have seen and my instinct to take it to its logical conclusion, which I totally trust. I apologise with the 99 out of 100 comment, as I've just read it back and I didn't mean it to come out like that, I meant I feel I can trust my own instincts, but these are no greater than the next man.....providing that man is AF of course ;-)

[hornetboy1]

I am reserving judgement on Iwelumo, as I am with all the new signings. So no, your view doesn't coincide with mine. You may or may not be right about all of the new signings. I don't agree with you saying that Walker, Deeney and Aldred are new signings either. I don't have a smug attitude. It was a reaction to your condescending attitude. When you say that 99% of the time your instinct is correct and clearly many others agree that it is too early to write off new players, then it implies you know better than them.

Ok, maybe i did assume you haven't seen Hogg play much, however, not every player fits in at every club. Hopefully he build on his encouraging start with us.

Agreed that the way the side have started is a concern. The thing is, in the last couple of seasons we have been used to overachieving at the beginning of the season. We tend to tail off in the last couple of months, due to having a small, inexperienced squad. Hopefully, with the experienced players Dyche has brought, it will go the other way and results will start picking up.

I just don't understand how quick people are to react in such a negative way, when clearly it is too early to be making judgements.

I apologise for coming across as condescending, I have read that back and it was badly written. In my head I meant to say I can trust my own instincts and for me they are usually correct. I'm not saying I know more than the next person though.

[WatfordÉire]

A decent player from one of the bigger clubs over here was in Watford over the last few days being looked at.

[zztop]

That's totally fine. I'm happy for you to disagree with me and that's healthy. However, I would like to make something clear and I think there has been a misunderstanding. I have not written off any player, not even Iwelumo. They can all come good with coaching and time. I was merely giving an opinion on what I have seen and my instinct to take it to its logical conclusion, which I totally trust. I apologise with the 99 out of 100 comment, as I've just read it back and I didn't mean it to come out like that, I meant I feel I can trust my own instincts, but these are no greater than the next man.....providing that man is AF of course ;-)

We are all entitled to an opinion and I see that you have backtracked somewhat, but the general gist of your posts are that you HAVE written off some of the signings as you have re-iterated that you totally trust your initial instincts, which have been negative.

My own view is when trying to judge players, particularly those that have been playing in a different league or division, it invariably takes longer than a few weeks to see how they cope with the change in pace, etc.

In the meantime, whilst we wait, the last thing a new player needs is to be written off by the fans when he is trying to impress. Yes, they are "grown ups" but we all know that when anyone is criticised heavily, it can place the wrong type of extra pressure on them and usually only does harm.

[hornetboy1]

We are all entitled to an opinion and I see that you have backtracked somewhat, but the general gist of your posts are that you HAVE written off some of the signings as you have re-iterated that you totally trust your initial instincts, which have been negative.

My own view is when trying to judge players, particularly those that have been playing in a different league or division, it invariably takes longer than a few weeks to see how they cope with the change in pace, etc.

In the meantime, whilst we wait, the last thing a new player needs is to be written off by the fans when he is trying to impress. Yes, they are "grown ups" but we all know that when anyone is criticised heavily, it can place the wrong type of extra pressure on them and usually only does harm.

I have not back-tracked at all. My opinion has not changed and I even clarified what I said. I have not written any player off, but just have passed an honest assessment of what I have seen. Not everything is rose tinted, but I notice if you are not 100% positive all of the time, then people get upset with you. So be it.

The way I see it is like this. In principle, if a young player comes through our academy or is purchased from outside but is still a “development player”, then I will have unlimited patience with that player. If we sign a journeyman pro, with years of experience, and he does not hit the ground running, then he will get less understanding. He will come in with higher wage demands because of his age and experience, but that also carries a higher expectation.

If you read Dyche’s quotes, he says we need more quality in wide and forward areas. I took that to mean, what we have so far is not good enough. So then you look at the players already in those positions, and you come to your own conclusions.