Why Watford Have Collapsed Under Marco Silva

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Whippendell Woods, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I've not read the whole thread so others may have said something similar, but to me it is obviously down to the loss of the "Team Spirit" that Silva had initially instilled in the team. The whole Everton saga and Silvas lack of commitment shown to WFC and his players during it, shattered the players previous belief in the man, ergo he has lost the dressing room and the team spirit with it, hence our downward spiral.

    However hopefully all is not lost, if he is man enough to do a "Mea Culpa" to the team explaining that his head was turned and say he is sorry, he might just be able to get them back on side and possibly get the earlier team spirit back. If he manages to do that I can still see us achieving a top ten finish.
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  2. Bookie

    Bookie Academy Graduate

    Yes, very positive - a dose of realism wouldn't go amiss! Of course we're in a far better position if we take 9-12 points from our next 5 games - this is the proverbial "sweeping under the carpet"! Let's just hope that Gino doesn't end up having to take such a reckless gamble with our last 5 games. With our recent form and, particularly, manner of defeats, Silva shows no sign of managing our squad to get points as you hypothesize in the next 5 games, and certainly not our last 5 games should we need it!
     
  3. Simmos

    Simmos First Year Pro

    I am probably in a minority of 1 but I actually don't see what is so bad about Silva. I cannot recall him ever saying he wanted to go to Everton (admittedly he didn't say he wanted to stay either). Can we please remind ourselves that Silva is not a supporter of the club in the same way we are. He is a paid employee. It was not disloyalty to want more money as faced with a similar situation I imagine most on here would want to move to a job that offered more money.

    Due to his contract Silva was refused the right to move to a new job. Put in his shoes would you not be annoyed with your employer? However he has continued to manage the team in the best way he sees fit. This might not be to the liking of the supporters but it doesn't mean he has given up. By not speaking out he has shown a lot more composure than most of our fans.

    I doubt there is anything in Silva's contract that says he has to like his employer. I think we as fans sometimes like to think that everyone at the club wants to be there and can think of no better place in the world. After all this is OUR CLUB and we would love the chance to play just once for them even if it meant playing for free. I imagine that Watford is no different to any workplace where people are falling out with each other all the time.

    I think we can agree that Silva hasn't had much luck with refereeing decisions before Saturday and it is hardly his fault that crucial players are not recovering from injuries. As has also been pointed out, if we sack him who are we going to bring in mid season? Apart from McKinlay I can't think of the Pozzo's dismissing a manager mid season and that has always proved to be the right decision. If we want to change the manager this is not the right time and Silva must be allowed to see out the season even if it does bring a relegation.

    The best teams are built on stability. We cannot keep on changing manager just because of a few bad results. The New England Patriots in the NFL are the most successful franchise. Yet there were reports last week that the owner Robert Kraft, the head coach Bill Bellichick and the Quarter Back Tom Brady don't like each other. However together they have dominated the NFL this century and are once again only one of four teams who can win the Superbowl. I would rather we keep our manager to get some stability and hopefully results will then improve along with the injuries and decision making of the manager.

    I have much preferred to watch the football this season than the past two. In the past we were calling out to allow our players to take it to the opposition instead of playing 10 men behind the ball at all times. Silva may not get on with the Board.....so what. He has not done anything that I can see that sabotages the team. You might not like the tactics but he believes that they will get the results needed to survive.

    The Times article said nothing that astounded me. Results have not fallen away because of "Evertongate". Watford is just another workplace with your usual disagreements. Can we now all move on from blaming our recent form on the supposition that Silva wanted to leave and is now in some way disloyal.
     
  4. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Zola? Well, he "resigned".
     
  5. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    We are 6 points (two wins) above relegation places with 15 games to play - if you do not believe we are in a relegation battle I hope you are alone in that. If Silva and co think like that we can be certain that we are in trouble. Look at how far from relegation we were three months, two months and one month ago. We are in near freefall and until we get some form back we are in trouble.
     
  6. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Definitely, he wanted out and didn't try and hide it.
     
  7. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    What are you doing posting on this forum? Where’s the reactionary claptrap? Well done.
     
  8. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Maybe the truth is we are a mid to lower table club whose occasional purple patches give us all understandable delusions of grandeur, before we find our truer level a few months in to the season?

    That’s certainly been the pattern so far since we were promoted.

    Our new Head Coach each season plus the copious new signings every summer have the element of surprise to begin with, and passing 20 points is the easy bit. Then maybe they get found out a little and the winter months are harder.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not under-ambitious. I believe we should always be above the newly promoted sides, and there are other more established PL sides this season that I think have worst squads and resources than we do.

    I also know we can’t hide behind the ‘still relatively new to this level’ excuse either. However, maybe sometimes we do need to stand back a little and realise it’s true. Look at the other sides who came up with us and after us. Norwich, Hull and Boro went straight back down. Muff are no better than us, having bad runs and relegation fears of their own this season and they’re far more stable than us in terms of manager and squad. Burnley have kicked on well this season, until recently. Of last seasons promoted clubs, none can say they’re safe yet. Newcastle have flirted with the bottom three, while I still think Brighton’s lack of firepower could see them dragged into it.

    As a new club to this level we’ve never actually been in the bottom three in our 2 1/2 seasons back. We’ve had a cup semi final. Beaten the champions, United, Liverpool. and Arsenal (twice). The last few weeks have been miserable, no doubting that. Seriously bad. We could still go down. But is it unrealistic to say that this was the most probable scenario when we went up, until we properly established ourselves at the top table? Are we actually dramatically underperforming or just finding the going tough in a very tough league?
     
  9. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

     
  10. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    A well balanced and reasoned post as ever, Malt.

    I think there is cause for concern though, and that lies in the three recent games against Huddersfield, Brighton and Swansea. Those were three abject results and a side which has been in the PL for two and a half seasons - even if it is a mid to lower table side - should really be doing better than that.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  11. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The fact that Stoke have hired Paul Lambert should be earning enough for anyone hoping we sack Silva!
     
  12. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Personally, I struggle with any judgement of how good we are when it is based on a league position - although (of course) that is the inevitable result of our results.

    I prefer to watch our performances in an assessment of how good we are.

    What I see is under-performing from front to back, including...
    • Lack of concentration at the back
    • A lack of confidence
    • A lack of a cohesive plan on defending set pieces (but perhaps getting better)
    • Poor basic passing (a symptom of the lack of confidence and movement)
    • A lack of movement at the front when going forward
    • Poor set pieces into their box
    • I believe only Doucoure, Richarlison, Janmaat possibly and Carillo are the only players putting in pretty consistent effort, even if they have a bad game.
    • Poor discipline
    • Poor game management
    Yet we are 10th, and nearly all the above are attitude and coaching issues.

    In terms of our ability, if everything else was sorted, then I think only our lack of a clinical finisher would prevent us from challenging for a Europa Cup spot
     
  13. Bookie

    Bookie Academy Graduate

    Let's not forget that Deeney (not Silva) changed the game on Saturday. I'm sure Deeney gave the team talk at half-time as he knows GT's legacy, and what it means to the fans and his family. The legacy might not have quite been understood by our cohort of foreign mercenaries, but I'd wager that he, and not Silva, got into their heads to drive the improvement in the second half. Silva got lucky on Saturday with an inspired Deeney and the 2nd goal.
     
    Vicarage Road likes this.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Like someone said on the Soton match thread - if anyone thinks that Carrillo, Richarlison, Pereyra are that bothered about GT deep down, I’d say that’s a big reach to make. What is he to players like that?

    That is in no way a slight on GT.

    So it’s Silva’s fault that we are in terrible form. But when we play 45 minutes of good football, it’s nothing to do with him?
     
    PowerJugs, Simmos and Jumbolina like this.
  15. Bookie

    Bookie Academy Graduate

    If you read what I said, I actually made the point it would be lost on most of them them, but I'd trust Deeney to get his point across - that is a captain's duty after all. We'll never know, of course, but Deeney comes across as just a little more persuasive than Silva!
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Does he? He’s been suspended for 7 games this season so he’s abandoned his ‘captains duty’ a fair bit this season - and perhaps (none of us know) that may have lost him quite a bit of goodwill with some players.

    The idea that Silva was pushed aside by Deeney who went on a pro-GT rant I just find hard to believe. And if it did happen, I’d say that’s says just as much about the players than it does about Silva. We cannot afford the dressing room to go rogue once again.
     
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  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    This is just daft. Silva has had plenty of bloopers but give him credit in part for the turnaround.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  18. blahblahblah

    blahblahblah Reservist

    God knows where we'd be without a leader like Deeney. If it hadn't been for him on Saturday, Silva would have been hung out to dry by the Upper GT ... yes, it's got that bad.
     
  19. Bookie

    Bookie Academy Graduate

    Not defending Deeney's suspension or his choice of words v Arsenal, but he hinted at the passion and leadership so often missing in this league, and it would certainly be remiss of him as a leader and captain not to instil some passion, and, no, Jumbolina, Silva gets no credit - everyone else telling him to change tactics and Deeney take the credit.
     
  20. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    Any change in head coach will not solve the ongoing injury crisis, the slow recovery process, the ongoing indiscipline issues, the often poor recruitment process and the complete and utter lack of interest from a bunch of overpaid nonces who seem to have no desire to want to do their job
     
  21. Certainly. But if you remove the possible negative aspect of the rumors you wish to discount, the remaining evidence, as it stands at the moment, suggests he is merely ****, rather than suffering a bump for being a tad wayward looking.

    Personally, if it was me, I'd rather everyone thought it was for reasons other than that I simply can't cut it.
     
  22. This is a slight improvement in form. We have barely, if indeed we have at all, stopped the slide. I am fully behind Silva, and believe he is capable of it, but he'll get a bit more respect when he's earned it. I don't care if he is petulant and arrogant, I don't care that I find him quite unlikable; if he's achieving what he should with the squad he's got, then I'll blow his trumpet for him. But whilst he's faffing about underachieving, unable to get over himself, he's fair game a bit of criticism.
     
    PowerJugs, Jossy, Burnsy and 2 others like this.
  23. Or the entitled chattering fans who believe that poor form is a personal betrayal of their loyal support.
     
    PowerJugs, Burnsy and Bwood_Horn like this.
  24. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Of course he is. But randomly speculating that it is Troy now giving the half time team talks whenever we improve in a game is odd.
     
  25. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’m more than happy to believe Troy may have given some words of encouragement in the tunnel when they came out for half time, as you’d expect any senior player to do in any game, but to suggest he gave the team talk in the dressing room over the actual manager is pure fantasy if you ask me.

    Again, he may have given some motivational words, but the coach is the coach and there is no way he just sat there and let Troy do the half time talk.
     
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  26. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    Particularly as Troy was warming up on the pitch at half time
     
  27. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    So every day a guy smears himself in faeces and eats it, but expect the same outcome, so he's totally sane?
     
  28. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Depends if he enjoys it
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  29. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    We can't know what went on in the dressing-room, but we do know how Troy led by example the moment the whistle went for the second half. Maybe it was that that was inspirational, not anything somebody said.

    Topsy included Carrillo in his short list of players doing their best - but when does he ever tackle or challenge for a header?
     
  30. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    N
    What, the Deeney who spent HT warming up on the pitch?
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I'll let you know...
     
  32. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Don't know what the issue is. Everyone mid table by it's very nature goes through a dire run that we ourselves have experienced, some teams have still got it coming.

    38/39 points will be enough this year & we need any permutation of 12/13 points from 15 remaining games with by & large everyone below still to play each other. As much as I question the confidence, we are fully capable & I am sure Silva will be taking a more defensive/cautious approach in the run in.

    We will limp over the line & Silva will go in the summer.

    Rinse & repeat in 2018/2019 this is what clubs our size go through in the PL year in, year out. Get used to it. Still better than Championship.
     
    Malteser likes this.
  33. Rozerhorn

    Rozerhorn First Year Pro

    Not sure about 'better than the Championship' in exciting football terms.
    Yes there's been some great results and a few early performances but were we discussing team effort and attitude in the Championship?
    Don't get me wrong, in financial terms and brand terms it's great that we are in the Premier League but sometimes I do think the actual football was more entertaining in the Championship.
    I'll probably get slaughtered for that.
     
    Meh! likes this.
  34. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I think the perception of the Championship being more entertaining is down to the closeness of almost all the matches. The imbalance in the Premier League leads to all the ‘attack vs defence’ games like Man U v Stoke this week which seem boring.
     
  35. Vicarage Road

    Vicarage Road Reservist

    Saturday will be interesting. bet Leicester do us on the counter and Silva refuses to play two up top. If we do get tonked , I hope it’s the end for the little snake
     

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