Why Watford Have Collapsed Under Marco Silva

I said in a post in the Silva Out? Poll thread that I suspected Silva felt 'misled' by the hierarchy once the transfer window shut & I feel even more convinced about that now. He seems to have convinced himself that the underwhelming end to the window means the club had 'broken promises' to him, so he owes no loyalty as he had almost been convinced to come to us under 'false pretences'. Whatever the truth, there's clearly a fractured relationship between him & the hierarchy now...it was plainly stated on 3CR after the game yesterday, by a reporter who said he had 'definitely gained that impression after spending time at the club this past week'.

 

We were the seventh biggest spenders in the league over the summer, the most of any manager in our history. And he got several of his own choices in.

I'm tired of his whining, I'm tired of his sulking on the touchline and I'm tired of his lack of responsibility. He has done a **** job, we have won two league games since 14th October and have shown no signs of progress.

Literally any other club would have sacked him by now.

We are only going one way with him in charge. We need to get in somebody who is enthusiastic about the job and appreciates a club investing huge money in him.

He is a child. Bye bye Marco, you petulant idiot.

 

Those Luton loving T**ts working for BBC3cr haven't got a clue

I do think the Pozzo's for all their much vaunted scouting system haven't always got things right but be cause we don't play top dollar for wages ans still not seen as an established premier league team we do miss out quite a lot on our number one targets

 

I did not say he was correct in his views, just what I believe he's convinced himself (helped by his agents whispering poison in his ear). From what I recall, we were all excited by the pre-season transfers, to be surprised ourselves by the clear lack of quality in the positions we knew we need real upgrades: LB/CB/GK & striker. And I also doubt Silva has the humility to accept the "shut up & get on with it" message I imagine he received.
In my view, he clearly needs to go.

 

My first boss said to me over thirty years ago " long term teaching is hard work,anyone can do a one off lesson and appear enthusiastic and energetic."
It appears to me that Silva is,through a mixture of hubris,arrogance and stubborn behaviour, in grave danger of soiling not only our season,but his own long term prospects.
There is clearly a disconnect between Gino and Silva. Whether it can be repaired in the short term is rather dependent on Silva.
If he can accept that he is far from the finished article,knuckles down and remembers the basic requirements of any teacher,that is organisation,communication,energy and enthusiasm,he may well correct the decline.
If he continues,irrespective of returning players,as they will need games to rediscover their form and match sharpness,we may limp over the line.
He however,may never fulfil his potential,as he seems to have forgotten why he is involved in sport in the first instance. Not for the wealth,not for the adulation.
For the love of the game.
I don't care for the man,since the Everton debacle, but for his sake I hope he has a wise voice that he listens to. A Bertie Mee to GT. A Taylor to Clough.

 

I'm sure you're right and I'm surprised seemingly so few people have picked up on that.

 

If players wanted to have an allegiance to Silva, rather than the club (understandable, perhaps, even if we don't like it) then they should be happy, because they are still with him. So why the dip in form? It doesn't compute.

 

I hope Stoke come in for Silva.

 

The wheels are coming off Man City. They could get drawn into a scrap now with the rest of us.

 

It's interesting that the consensus now is that Silva's character leaves much to be desired. That's based on assumptions which I share, but they're only assumptions as none of us know him.

Maybe we'd like him even less if we did, but at least he'd be able to give us the right time

 

Absolutely spot on! As a Estoril and Portuguese fan (talk about loyalty, lads. Marco spent 12 YEARS at Estoril Praia, as a player, captain, Director and finally, manager) I totally back this. You saved me some time since I was about to write a similar post

Nah, you're wrong. The day he gets the sack, Benfica will be all over his signing, I can assure you. Marco Silva has a tremendous reputation in Portugal. Besides, Benfica fans love him and have been wanting him for years (maybe because Jorge Jesus, former Benfica coach, took his place at Sporting, or even maybe because Silva told Porto's manager to **** off in this infamous gif ahaha) I also believe the likes of Shakhtar Donestk or Zenit would be after him. The Mendes backed Wolves will always be an option to him in England, if things go wrong to Nuno Espírito Santo next season in the Premier League. And I heard they are keen to spend big... So, there are plenty of doors open for Marco Silva, even if Watford decides to pull the trigger.

 

He was a great breath of fresh air when we were winning and an arrogant tosser now we’re not.

The same as QSF being new and inventive when were winning regularly over the first months of his reign, then stubborn and inflexible when we weren’t.

Mazzari’s strict discipline was just what we needed, until we stopped winning, then he was a miserable dictator hated by everybody.

And so it will ever be. Results are everything. They shape perceptions too.

Had we won lots after the Everton approach, I bet barely anybody would still be remembering Silva having his head turned. It might be politically correct to say ‘oh but I still wouldn’t have forgiven him’ but if we were 7th tonight with 35 points or whatever, I bet we would have!

 

Yes, you could well be right there. I meant a top job in the Premier league, which is where he appears to want to work and be successful.

 

I totally agree with you on this. In fact, the perception in Portugal is that he took the Watford job, over FC Porto, because he wanted to build a successful career in England which would take him into a top 6 club sooner rather than later. I'm not saying Marco's career is doomed if he fails at Watford but it will take a hit on his ambitions in the country. Anyway, he can always go back to Portugal or take over a Champions League team like Paulo Fonseca did.

 

Yes, but we're not putting in such performances. This sort of hypothetical comment is ludicrous. Fact is, we're on a slippery slope and his behaviour during Everton-gate has driven a wedge between him and a large section of Watford fans. His lack of humility and loyalty has come back to bite him on the arse! To compound it, the same defensive flaws are seen time and time again, and he just reinforces the fact he lacks the ability to fix them. The consensus seems he will be gone by the summer or before, anyway, so Gino is hopefully working overtime working on a replacement. Gino, stick or twist?

 

Yeah but that was my point. Had we been putting in the performances and getting results, more people would have forgiven him for his demeanour during the Everton approach. It’s a results driven business. My post was just a gentle reminder that until Merseyside came calling, the common consensus was Silva was a decent coach doing a decent job, as we raced along to the 20 point mark. The minute results went bad, we all had a stick to beat him with.

I think maybe you misread my post as a defence of Silva. It wasn’t. I don’t like losing. I don’t like our recent performances. And I don’t like the way he refused to come out and end the speculation last Autumn. I was just saying that, much in the way supporters of Mourhino’s teams mostly tolerate the man if he’s winning them things, I could have put up with Silva had we not gone on such a bad run so soon after Everton.

And I was also gently pointing out that it’s become a trait at our club recently to start seasons well and then have a second half season slump, completely changing our perception of the head coach.

 

Try looking at it another way. If the Everton situation had not happened, would our fans be more forgiving and sympathetic towards Silva in our current form? I reckon I would. Obviously can't speak for others, but his general demeanor doesn't do him any favours imo.

 

Absolutely right. But then, any of those coaches mentioned would have been better appreciated had they won lots of games, instead of losing lots of games.

 

Damn... Sorry about that

I have noticed that. (although I'm sure MS had something to do with Carrillo at least)

In general I agree that, unless you have a Wenger or a Ferguson situation, where you expect them to stay for a long time, managers shouldn't be given complete power over the squad. Porto tried something like that with Lopetegui (now Spain's national coach) a few years ago and it was a disaster (results and financially) from which the club is still recovering.

But if you go to the other extreme, thinking of managers almost as minor and easily replaceable figures in the club, don't you think you'll eventually discourage many good managers from joining Watford?

1. All managers like to have a say on squad building, even the ones who don't say it publicly (or privately).

2. Usually you'll get best results with 2-3 year cycles, instead of 1 year as increasingly the expectation is at Watford.

3. All managers have an ego and like to feel important.

As for the relationship being beyond repair, I wouldn't be so definitive (yet). Unless you're in a situation where people are barely speaking (which was the case at Sporting but I don't think is the case here).

Football is very emotional, and people's perceptions of everything (starting with us supporters) are heavily influenced by the last few games, and even more by the last game.

In other words, a few wins can do miracles!

The problem is I don't see those wins happening without a few new faces on the team. And since it's a team where no players actually ever return from injury, new faces can only be signings.

 

Exactly. You can be a dour, arrogant **** of a manager but only if you win games. Fans are likely to be more forgiving of a nice guy who says the right things, but only up to a point. Zola is still loved by most of us, despite his failings, because we all want to pinch his cheeks and hug him like a teddy.

 

After Yeovil at home, I wanted to blood-eagle him.

 

You want to blood eagle everyone.

 

People also like to casually forget that we beat West Ham and Newcastle, gave Man Utd a bit of a scare and drew with Spurs all during or just after 'Everton-gate'.

 

There’s usually the odd good result during any run, but it’s just 3 wins and 10 defeats in the last 15 games. Performances have taken a big downward turn recently and that cannot be overlooked.

 

The best outlook on the situation that I've read to date.

Everyone is allowed an opinion but I think some fans just can't deal with the fact we have a manager that has an ego and can't get past that fact, thinking it doesn't fit the imprint of our club and never will. Should he have declined interest in the Everton job? Certainly. But it's time to move on. I really don't believe the Everton saga is what is affecting us right now. It's key injuries and terrible defensive recruitment.

I just cannot for the life of me fathom why any fan would want to sack a manager when we are still mid-table, in the cup and should soon have a squad again that is capable of keeping us there. If Silva had overseen the past 2 seasons, I'd give more credence to people who want him gone - but the simple facts are that we have changed managers the past two years and the same result has happened. It's time to back the manager for once, and forgive him about the Everton debacle.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

 

It isn't being overlooked. Its poor form and needs to be addressed. But the best way to address it is by giving him the tools to arrest the slide, whether that be by improving medical practices/injury-prevention or by backing him to buy defenders that he wants, not defenders that he gets given.

 

Absolutely right. Right now it’s a toxic recipe. We have players that are not good enough, and the coaching is virtually nonexistent.

Something has to change but it looks as though it won’t, which I find very strange.

 

Gray says it's untrue that players asked Silva if he would take them to Everton.

He probably didn't think it was worth asking.

 

I wonder whether that taking players to Everton thing was a joke that's been taken literally?

When there was all that speculation about him leaving for Everton, the players will obviously have read it too.

"When are you going? Are you taking us with you, boss?" would be just the sort of bantery thing I can imagine footballers joking about.

 

I am not a psychologist but am pretty sure that is NOT the definition of insanity.

 

Tell that to Albert Einstein as its his quote.

 

Where we are now in the table is not the point but where we will finish. You could argue that 3 months ago we were fourth and have dropped 6 places. If we drop another six in the next 3 months we will be 16th in mid April. You sack a manager if you think someone else can do better not because he had a good start.
This "we will soon be over the injury crisis" was played again and again last year. It proved false. We never had a sudden recovery of form with players miraculously returning fully fit. To use your own argument why when it did not happen last year do you think it will this year. Is that not your insanity?
On current form we will be pretty close to / or relegated.
The Board has one decision. Is Silva the best man to prevent relegation?

 

Do you have his address please. Is it AlbertE@afterlife.com?
Not sure it was really his quote anyway but he was a physicist not a psychologist wasn't he?

 

Good post. I would wonder how the position of coach is 'sold' to the candidates. You couldn't be much of a coach/manager if you didn't have something of an ego, I think. The story at the beginning of the season was that the coach is part of a team for recruitment - which surely must be the right way to go about it. But I suppose the people involved only really find out about each other after a while, and particularly if anything goes wrong. Interviews are two-way things (you interview me for a job and I am interviewing you as an employer) and it is not unknown for people to 'interview well' but not actually be much good at the job.
I would think Watford's model might well turn out to be too mercenary and lead employees to think they are treated as objects, 'playing units', 'coaching units', etc. Not everybody appreciates that.
Many club owners use the coach/manager as a scapegoat and the turn-around of coaches in the premiership is dreadful.

 

So because players didn't recover last season that means they won't this season? I have been clear over various threads that even if players do come back, that alone won't sure our issues. I still think Silva should be backed in buying defenders as I don't think any of the defenders that are injured (bar Femenia) are better than whats available at the minute.

At no point have I said that we will get our injured players back soon.

And I'm sorry but where we are in the table right now is the point. Or at least part of it. If the aim for this season was to progress up the table from last season, at this current point we are achieving that ambition so why sack the manager when he's achieving the goals he was set? I would come closer to your side of the argument if we struggle over a further 5 games maybe...

I also would be worried about who we would replace him with given the dirth of options currently available as shown when our rivals have been looking for a new manager. If there was a candidate that you could be sure would improve matters, I'd be interested to hear who that is. Better the devil you know for me.

That isn't the one decision the board has - because we aren't in a relegation battle. We may be further down the line and then it may be a decision the board need to make. Likewise, looking at our next 5 league games - I would say 3, maybe 4 are definitely winnable - If we take 9, 10, 12 points, we will pretty much free from trouble with 10 games left to play.

Maybe I'm just positive about our overall situation, even if I am disappointed with the current form.