West Ham United 3-1 Watford Fc - 17/07/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Smudger, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    What has been clear for so long with this squad is that it is mentally very weak

    Not down yet but the fat lady is just about to sing
     
  2. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I can only speak for myself, but I'd be ecstatic if we stay up. It will almost be the same feeling when we got promoted. To think you're certainly going down, then to survive would give an incredible sense of relief, which will turn to euphoria I think in a lot of fans.

    We'll then have to really take a long hard look at why things got so stale at the club and change it. Traditionally, if you survive a big scare like this season the following one will almost certainly end in relegation if there are not dramatic improvements made over the summer.

    If we do stay up, and I'm still hopeful we will, then I really hope the board truly understand what went wrong and put things in place to allow this never to happen again.
     
  3. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    TBF I think you're being extremely charitable - we've been s hit (bar an FA semi and Liverpool this season) since Christmas 2018.
     
    Chunky monkey likes this.
  4. Chunky monkey

    Chunky monkey Academy Graduate

    We'll then have to really take a long hard look at why things got so stale at the club and change it.

    Unfortunately as fans there is no “we” about it, and if the great escape is achieved then I won’t be holding my breath for the club to change with anything like the depth required, it is more likely to be viewed as a narrow escape and “same again”, and that I am afraid is not radical enough for me.
     
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  5. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I've never sucked up to the Pozzo's, and have consistently criticised the attitude of the players, and Deeney in particular.

    Yes, I think our ability is good enough to stay up, but when you have leadership off the pitch that shows little interest and passion themselves, and a leader on the pitch who has been too fat and unfit for several years and who concentrates on his media work and social causes, even to the extent that he won't turn up for training when we are fighting for our lives - then footballing ability becomes less important.

    And from when I started having a go at Deeney in about 2016, it was you who was the most ardent defender of your hero on this forum.
     
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  6. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    I'm going to defend Deeney. Its not his fault the club have left him as the only option. Not his fault he is forced to play with a knee injury. Not his fault we have no plan to phase him out, and have not been actively looking for players better than him to replace him or play alongside him. Other than kids or crocks.
     
    wfcwarehouse likes this.
  7. Rozerhorn

    Rozerhorn First Year Pro

    I just can’t believe that what, 13/14 months ago we had just played one of the best games in an FA Cup semi final and were 7th in the league, with a chance of European football at the Vic for the best part of 35 years.
    Now look at us, many have commented on the lack of any spunk in our team of individuals for the past year. Living in Aus I was proud to go to the casino with my Aussie Bride and show her my team at Wembley.
    What a ******* embarrassment that was and what a ******* embarrassment this season has been.
    As much as I love my Team, this is not them. I’m worried as to what relegation will bring because as much as others may say, it’s not in our hands anymore. I don’t see this bunch getting anything from the 180 minutes left in the season. We are relying on others to get us results.
    If we go down, then where do we stop?
    Sad and angry times to be a Watford Supporter
     
    dynamo380 and LaClusazSki like this.
  8. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    I have answered you before.
    A Premier league board menber
     
  9. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Should of gone with my tactics. It's becoming a little to often that I feel embarrassed about my club. Where's the effin passion? Hughes worded it perfectly, passive. Individually, Collectively, tactically, everything was wrong. How on Earth could they not of been up for this game. F them all.
    I've read about leadership on the pitch, agree with the majority that there isn't any. Nobody was fired up.
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  10. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    The biggest asset to a football team is probably considered to be the players, the coaching and the culture within the club. It is why the likes of Watford and Wimbledon rose from the bottom of the 4th to the relative top of the League, overtaking Leeds< forest, Birmingham, Sunderland, Boro, etc, on a shoestring. I never watched Watford over a series of games on that adventure and think that they were wasting their talent, it was the opposite, as we achieved far more than we should have done. Their medical expertise when Taylor started was Pat Malloy with a sponge.

    So, I don't know enough about the backroom set-up to be able to criticise it too much, but when the attitude and mindset is wrong it is a pretty good indication that the culture is not right, and that does permeate from the top down. But I don't know how much any improvements in the individual backroom operations would improve things. Yes, such improvements might help to hide the poor culture, but it is only a sticking plaster.

    I think of Leicester under Pearson, and Leicester under Ranieri, chalk and cheese with effectively the same players.

    So, I get back to the players and coaches. In my view our players have the talent, but they do not have the attitude and mindset to use it.
     
  11. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    Well I was in a pub , didn’t realise it had started, tried to find a stream and found out that we were already 2-nil down , then didn’t bother with the rest, from comments above it sounds like the team took the same approach

    I would say chances of survival are below 50%

    we are unlikely to get any points

    out of the 4 games left Between Muff and Villa , can see one of them going the wrong way for us , probably either muff vs Everton or villa vs West Ham

    If the above happens it’s down to goal difference , if we loose both games we are bound to be worse goal difference than muff and probably worse than villa

    this is going to make a very uncomfortable Sunday, with us likely to need a draw against Arsenal to guarantee survival , while muff take on a spineless Everton and Villa take on a already safe West Ham

    ****
     
  12. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We sacrificed a run at 7th for a Cup Final and the fans clapped along.

    We lost a Cup Final 6-0 and the fans come away proud and waving little plastic yellow flags.

    We lose a game 8-0 after being 5-0 down after 18 minutes, the fans clap along.

    We draw consecutive home games 0-0 and the fans applaud them off like a winning team.

    I would have thought fans were so happy about failure that relegation would be a passing moment of no consequence to them.
     
    Diamond and Lincshornet like this.
  13. Chiswell

    Chiswell Academy Graduate

    I feel this morning like I felt after the Cup Final - completely flat, frustrated and angry. The Pozzos need to make their minds up if they want to compete at the top table or not? Overall they have been good for the club but to try to 'make do and mend' with players who are just not up to it, is crazy. I must admit I thought they were too smart to think they could sustain (or even improve, 'best of the rest' and all that) a Premier League position without serious investment. I imagined they would partner with another party to generate the necessary funds. I sincerely hope that all we suffer is one relegation and that the debts don't send us spiralling down the leagues.
     
  14. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    We are this seasons Stoke, or Swansea or Sunderland.

    'Too good to go down, bunch of honest pros, talisman Captain'.

    Media have spun us a team that will fight to stay up. Media are very badly biggly wrongy.
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  15. Lincshornet

    Lincshornet Academy Graduate

    Sadly as we all know, if we survive it'll be the same old story. Exciting prospects that nobody has ever heard of from some far flung league, old has beens and a couple of cheapies that are next to useless.................We go again!
     
    Wexford-yellow and wfcmoog like this.
  16. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    Th
    I’m not sure that we applauded them off at 8-0 and the 0-0 home games were pathetic tactics. Unfortunately there has always been a large section of our fan base that is negatively driven. This is what differentiates between being successful or not. Expectations for this club are low because of our history of being mediocre. Its not just in our club, it’s in most clubs D&A.
    The only positive since restart is that I didn’t have to be there, or am I being negative?
     
  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Fans, especially on here, told others to ignore the 8-0 defeat because it meant nothing. Against too good a team they said. The soon to be Champions again, they said. The same team that some of them are suggesting we can beat on Tuesday.

    I was present at those 0-0's. We most certainly clapped the team off. I spoke about it on here and was threatened by a member for bringing it up.

    Expectations aren't low because of our history. Our fans aren't like fans of other clubs. Football doesn't really matter like it does to other fans. It's something to do on a weekend.

    Our fans are more of the local theatre member type. Doesn't matter what **** is on, you go anyway and appreciate it - as there's not much else to do and you can't get tickets for Hamilton for love nor money.
     
  18. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    The Pozzos have used our club to further their primary operation of farming naive young players around Europe on a perpetual market stall.

    I'm sure Pozzo PLC is more successful than either Watford or Udinese.

    Pozzos model benefits from having Watford in the Premier League as a staging post and a shop window for some players and for the huge cash cow it provides their operation, allowing them to trade higher value assets.

    There is no major advantage to Pozzo if we get higher in the league or win a cup. Maybe some small prize money and maybe some small prestige to attract talent, but overall, they've never seemed to target more than just the bare minimum, preferring to divert WFC resources into speculative buys, that will never play for us.

    This is why I hate them and want them out of my club.
     
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  19. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I have to say, after the start to the season, i thought 2 clean sheets were a starting point.

    We still had plenty of time to turn the season around then. Start solid and build in confidence and become more adventurous.

    It wasn't to be. Those draws were pretty much the high point and we went back to losing. It wasn't even a false dawn. More a false promise of a false dawn.
     
  20. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    The evidence for my point is surely all in the performances and the outcomes.

    If we invested in perfecting a few set piece routines over the season, if players didn't have such terrible recover times compared to other clubs, if our players didn't look half as fit as our opponents throughout the season, if our signings were not mostly misfits and unsuitable for our needs.

    We have been run negligently and with so much at stake it's quite staggering.

    Buying a 25 goal premier league striker would make us successful, but it would also cost us £70m, so in the absence of such resources, you'd have thought that attention to details like fitness, coaching, tactics etc would help us get the extra 6 or 7 points that would've seen us safe. There's just no evidence that these sorts of things are taken at all seriously though.

    When we have such important games as we've had recently, and we see the same old team, the same approach tactically, the same lack of any ideas to change things, the same lack of substitutions - you have to wonder, does anyone at the club even give a fick?
     
  21. ForzaWatford

    ForzaWatford Squad Player

    I'm very much in the Pozzo In camp and think they have done a great job (albeit with big mistakes this year), but one thing you have to say for their entire time with us is we have completely bottled EVERY 'big' game in their tenure, with Wolves last season as maybe the exception:

    Watford V Leeds - Lost when we needed to win to go up automatically.
    V Palace - Awful performance in the playoff final
    V Sheff Weds - Bottled winning the league. I reckon we wouldn't have gone up if Boro hadn't bottled it worst than us.
    V Palace Fa Cup semi - didn't turn up again.
    V City FA Cup Final - Yes against one of the best teams of all time, but we didn't even put up a fight.
    V West Ham - 3-0 down in 20 minutes...
     
  22. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Never seen DNA spelt like that. Fair play.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    Their what now?
     
    Eastcoastorn likes this.
  24. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I'm not blaming him for the knee injury, or even his lack of ability. He has less talent than most Prem attackers, and so has less to live up to. But, being short of talent, means that he should get the rest right. And in my view, he usually doesn't.
     
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  25. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    Brain is scrambled after yesterday. Thanks.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  26. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    I was at those 0-0 games and was furious. There are plenty of Watford fans who are passionate but some other clubs have more of them. I agree that we do seem to have a lot of passive, something to do that’s not shopping types but I think if you’re passion is football you don’t support Watford. Our fans are typically local and unlike big city clubs, don't attract other passionate fans from outside the locality, apart from me of course.
     
  27. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    and considering the first two goals were in the first ten minutes, we were behind before we started!
     
  28. Last night was the perfect time for a QSF special 0-0
     
  29. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I agree with much of your post, but I'm not sure why we deserve to go down more than Villa, for example, who spent £150m this year?
     
    dynamo380 and wfcmoog like this.
  30. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    An absolute mint to be made from the bookies who still have us as favourites to stay up.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  31. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    I’m wandering the forum aimlessly looking for comfort or answers , a shred of optimism, something to cling on to.

    It’s been a little depressing this season hasn’t it. After one of the best seasons last year we’ve done a full flip.

    I’m not a believer that all our players don’t care. But whatever the reason we look pretty awful, can’t compete, can’t defend and can’t attack.

    I’m getting more and more disgruntled at certain players and I hate not liking and supporting those wearing our kit.

    I’ve probably posted this on the wrong thread, I just want this season finished regardless and then enjoy not watching us play for month or so - hopefully my enthusiasm will sneak back Day by day.
     
    I Blame Pozzo and wfcmoog like this.
  32. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Hopefully Nigel will forcefeed the squad a recording of our Liverpool win - over and over again. While explaining in simple terms what we did then that we're not doing now.
     
  33. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    We deserve it for our own failings. I'm not interested in other clubs' problems. We've had more than enough chances to make ourselves safe but we haven't. We've been consistently poor for most of the season.

    Based on our own standards we deserve to go down. That Villa and Bournemouth have made it a possibility that we won't, doesn't change that imo.
     
    GoingDown likes this.
  34. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It's an accounting term. Debt and accrual.
     
  35. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Exactly and to answer your OP [mention]zztop [/mention]we deserve it more because we’ve had a five year head start.

    Villa had a whole Championship squad. We’ve got four Championship level defenders and a Championship level strike force despite us being here five years.

    That’s why we deserve it more.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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