Yes, he’s had a good season in the Championship and won’t want to come back here when is loan expires. He was never given a chance in the Premiership and won’t be keen to sit and watch our other strikers flop again. I’m supprised that nobody has mention Assombalonga, he’s getting a few goals and scores consistently season after season. He knows the club and has a house locally. Edit:
I take your point on board, but I believe that at least 6 of those injured walk straight into the side when fit. That's a huge difference in overall quality. The key battles yesterday were Antonio vs Janmat and Deeney vs Collins. Kiko being fit would've resolved one of those instantly. Having Hughes as another type of player to anything we have now can't be a bad thing. Chalobah could arguably be out best player. I agree that we fielded a side who still need to give an account but they did on Monday. If this was our best 11 then 4 points out of a possible 9 is a decent return imo and better than anything we've been seeing from the snake, but with more injuries
It reminds me of how political parties speak just before a by-election, when they’re expected to do badly. Deliberately downplay expectation, so either they can say they were right or look pleasantly surprised if they underestimated their number of votes they actually get. Nobody is saying we don’t have a massive injury crisis, or that we’ve unable to name what most of us consider our strongest side for weeks now. However, I believe the side that was put out yesterday was more than capable of a better result and performance than we saw. Why? Well because five days earlier exactly the same side played well and got one. By playing down expectations now, by talking of a bare bones squad and how 12 points from 14 games would be a great achievement, I feel expectations are being played down deliberately so we can all feel ecstatically happy in May.
Completely agree, the idea that anyone would think that getting 12 points from the next 42 as "great" is so at odds with how good I think our squad is, and definitely on the negative side of anywhere I would want to be. But it takes all sorts.
8D mind those stairs wouldn't be hard to fall down in that grey palace they were tiny (if that's a thing) It was nice to hear white coat get his own chant at the end because Watford supporter or not he was an embarrassment
I think we have to accept that consistency is something only really the top 4 can expect. We have the players and the team that are going to produce an outstanding performance one week and something shocking the next. I don't think we played awfully yesterday. I don't think we played well either but we weren't awful. We had no luck when the ball repeatedly dropped to one of their players in their box. The clearance for their second could have gone anywhere. We created a few chances and maybe it is just that clinical striker away from maybe turning a game like that around. I was cold. I was wet. But I was not terribly disappointed. I can take a game like that one week if it means we get games like Monday night on top.
I first went to football in 1973 and I've been to hundreds and hundreds of games since then, not just Watford ones, so to the ****** in the red Cycle Confident kagoule, stood behind me yesterday, congratulations.........you are easily the most tiresome, irritating and witless ***** I've ever encountered at a match anywhere. Thanks.
It's a bit of a concern that Gracia has given Gray so little time so far. I know many don't rate him, but I think his pace at least makes us more dynamic. If his lack of involvement is to be interpreted as Javi not rating him, then the decision to not improve up front is criminal
I've yet to see Gray really use his pace, if he has any at all. I thought we were getting some little speed merchant but I don't remember him outpacing many defenders.
Annoyingly, I have to agree with this. If he does possess it, which he certainly used to look like he did, he is holding it back for some reason.
Quicker than Troy though, and that's all that matters. We can't keep giving slow defenders their easiest game of the season by continually picking Deeney
Gray does have plenty of pace but it's more his movement that makes him a much better option than Deeney.
His stats show he's a better option than Troy. 4 open play and 3 assists. Compared to Troy's 3 penalties and 2 assists. Take Troy out of the equation, and assume Gray was on the pitch for those penalties, then he's got a below average yet acceptable 7 for the season. Don't really get the vitriol directed at Gray on here. I assume it's related to the money paid for him, but you only need to look around to see that £18m is the going rate for average players these days
Thought I'd let the dust settle before I shared my thoughts on the game, being as emotion can have a huge bearing on how you see things. IMO - the whole team just looked lackluster yesterday. Whether that was down to lack of consistency, mental fatigue after a huge win, or just being a bit crap - I don't think you can really single out individuals as the cause. We struggled as a team and it showed. The criticism for Deeney seems over the top to me. Yep, he certainly was in Collins back pocket yesterday, but why does this make him finished at this level?? Ibrahimovic was in Prodl's back pocket in 2016 - did that mean Zlatan was finished? Even Ronaldo was in Prodl's back pocket during their game in the Euro's. Sometimes, it's the centre-halves day. Critics will say "but he isn't scoring". But this thread-bare team - when all are on it - are better than the sum of its parts. And Troy is integral to that, as proven by Monday night. Janmaat firmly confirmed what we already knew - he has no pace and is a sitting duck for quick players. But Monday showed how useful he can be at the other end. Had he been fit, Kiko would have easily matched Antonio for pace. Has he ever played as a right sided centre-half? It'll be fascinating to see what Gracia can do with all options to choose from, as keeping Janmaat in the team where he can't be exposed defensively is a handy positive to call on. Zeegelaar - he can't defend either. But we all knew that, to. He's virtually nailed on to make a bad error every game - we just have to hope we get away with it. Yesterday we didn't. Fine margins and all that.......... Gracia won't blame the injuries, but we can. Had most of the teams around us had the injury woes we've had for the last two years, I'm certain they'd have gone down. Others may have had 10 or so players missing at some point - but not for the length of time we've had to endure it. It's going to be a battle right to the end. The league this season sees one side in a class of their own; four sides a step up in class from the rest; one possibly in that group depending what wknd they're playing; and the rest with hardly anything between them. Muff have just been destroyed by Huddersfield; Newcastle have beaten Man Utd; and as I type, Liverpool are leading 0-2 against Southampton. You just can't second-guess how any fixture will turn out. Last week West Ham stunk the place out at Brighton and we destroyed Chelsea! Most importantly, I think we've improved since the snake slithered away. Gracia now has a fortnight to work with the players and hopefully see some return for selection, before we take on a team who I'm blaming for being the catalyst of our season imploding. A win in this makes yesterdays result not so bad. A defeat, and it multiplies in severity. Anybody really confident in predicting which Watford will show up??
I think we have an excuse in injuries. The players hailed as saviours like kaboul or cathcart or britos are not exactly world class and are referred to when playing as need to upgrade. The only ones we have missed are Cleverley for his work rate, femenia for his pace and chalobah for his partnership with doucoure.
That would be because he's been in almost every centre back's pocket in every match he's played for the past year. Again, he's 2 months off not scoring from open play in a calendar year! Plus, his struggles with fitness, workrate and discipline have all hurt us and negatively impacted the suggestion that he is integral to our team, as a player or a leader. It's beyond the pale at this point. No, not at all, and I agree, I'm not particularly blaming Gracia for the defeat, even, it's just a frustrating and annoying result. I think we have improved under him and will stay up, whereas I would have been far, far more concerned with Silva still here. I'd just like less stressful waiting for results and, as you say, being unsure whether we'll have to put up with 90 minutes of sheer dross each match or not.
Come on. Cathcart, Kaboul and Britos or the three we had out there yesterday. They're not the saviours but they're upgrades on what we have to choose from now.
Zeegelaar, Mariappa would have been most peoples 5th and 6th yet have featured for much of the season and Femenia would be obviously ahead of Janmaat in the pecking order. In midfield Chalobah and Hughes would have been stronger choices than Capoue . Guardiola has been moaning about losing a couple of players, we have been missing half a team for most of the season. Not having a fit squad available has meant no competition for places, no chance to drop players when loss of form , not having opportunity to rest players or select different teams to suit certain games. Injuries have hugely disrupted our season.
And the transfer window was the time to adequately address this and we didn't. We needed defenders, strikers before midfielders. No one will argue with getting Deulefeu but I would rather have had 2 defenders or a defender and a striker, over Ndong and Lukebakio. I still think Okaka is the worst option out of our 3 strikers but does anyone have any idea what this ongoing issue with him is? Many thought it was an issue with him and Silva but it seems to go higher than that and the ability to pick him in the matchday squad has been taken out of Gracia's hands. Reading between the lines it seems that its actually Gino that wants him out. The only thing I can come up with is he disruptive around the training ground etc and the club wants to cash in whilst someone may well be willing to give us a fairly decent fee.
Cathcart hasnt played in forever. Kaboul was cast as the boo boy and britos was never wanted to play again after a stupid foul on kncockheart. Chalobah and Hughes I agree, there's hundreds of games experience in these 2 players and would get in any top 4 club. Janmaat is decent enough but slow, Zeegelar is back up to holebas who also isn't good enough for some people and Capoue is what he is, good enough for a team hovering around mid table. It's a shame our Brazilian wonder kid got injured and missed half the season though.
It's certainly a game of opinions, and we do all see it differently. But I've had a look at Troy's involvement this season (league only), and I don't think it's as bad as people make out. But again - even with the same info, we can all come to different conclusions. His game by game contribution is as follows: (Red = cost us points, Blue = won us points or contributed significantly, Green = up for debate) Brighton - on as an 83rd minute sub (playing with 10) - impact n/a Southampton - on as an 84th minute sub - impact n/a Manchester City - on as a 74th minute sub when 4 goals down - impact n/a Swansea City - on as an 86th minute sub - vital interception to set Richarlison away for the winning goal. West Brom - full game - performance ok - not great, not terrible. Arsenal - on as a 63rd minute sub - changed the game in our favour. Chelsea - subbed off at 80 minutes at 2-2, go on to lose 4-2 - poor substitution. Stoke City - full game - performance poor but not alone in that. Retrospective red. Manchester United - on as a 72nd minute sub - gets us back in the game to almost level. Spurs - full game - performance ok, nothing more. Burnley - full game - poor performance, but playing with ten so always tough. Crystal Palace - subbed off at 80 minutes when winning - go on to lose 2-1, second time we've conceded 2 after he's been replaced. But did miss a sitter in the first half for 0-2. Huddersfield - sent off after 33 minutes. Harsh red IMO, but certainly only himself to blame. Southampton - on for second half - 100% the game changer and the reason we got a point from 2 nil down. How vital could that turn out to be? Leicester City - full game. Lackluster - but so too were everybody else. Fantastic control, shot and goal but unluckily ruled out for a very narrow offside. Stoke City - full game - part of a solid team performance, and looked better when Gray came on alongside him, combining well to set up Doucoure for a great chance. Chelsea - subbed off at 90 minutes - played well in a great team performance. West Ham - full game - below par, but again so was the entire team. To summarise this - I see 3 games where his contribution(s) directly lead to us getting the points we did, and only one game where he's cost us. The Palace game can be argued either way - at 0-2 we might win - but then again had he stayed on for the final ten minutes, we may not have given up the lead. This is a credible conclusion to draw because it's the second time we've let in two late goals when he's been subbed off with ten to play. The other games where he's been below par have come when the team has been poor. The only argument to be had is whether we've played poor because Troy's been poor, or whether the poor performance of the team has made it impossible for him to get in the game. Just depends how you view it. So that's my take on the issue. I'm not a Troy apologist - I just believe the above shows that he's won us more points than he's lost us. And whenever we say "what a great team performance" - he's usually a significant factor in that being the case. As for penalties - they still have to be scored. Had he been playing at Everton - we'd now have 31 points and be 9th in the table (I realise it was his fault he wasn't - the point was about the "ease" of scoring from 12 yards). But it's all about opinions - I've based mine on what I believe the stats show, and feel that focusing only on goals scored will never tell the whole picture.
I cannot allow this to go unchallenged, for the good of the people. He absolutely is not good enough for a team hovering around mid table, unless that team has immediate plans to get relegated. The type of bad he is, which is lazy and abdicating responsibility whilst playing directly in the centre of the park, 9 games out of every 10, is incredibly dangerous. It's not like a winger who flatters to deceive, jinking about to little effect up near their box; he is directly responsible for opposition midfields coming straight through us, very often. When he's not doing that, he's lazily getting mugged for the ball, leading directly to a counter attack, or passing to no one, leading to a counter attack. Capoue costs us.
The other bad side of only having 17 fit players (the obvious one being the lack of choice), is that with such a small amount of players, you just can't rotate your team. This is starting to show. The only valid explanation I have for such opposite performances in our last 2 games has got to be fatigue. These guys gave everything on Monday night, and we love them for it. Six days later, they all are seemed a shadow of themselves, just plain knackered. This next two weeks without a game is a blessing. Everton wont know what has hit them.
Vydra scored some of the best finishes I've seen at Vicarage Rd. In the Championship, yes, and probably not enough of them, but still... And he's doing really well at the moment. You would think he would have to be more productive than any of our current strikers. BUT his body-language towards the end of our promotion season was poor and this is distinctly odd, given he was one of the most important parts of an historic season. I, and others who noticed it, could not see any obvious reason for this - but there it is. There was a moody-ness about him and he seemed disinclined to be part of the team.
He did it in a game earlier in the season, he was put through outpaced the defenders, but skewed the shot wide.
