Watford FC 2-2 Southampton -13/01/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steel City Gold, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. poakley

    poakley Academy Graduate

    We need play 4 at the back. They are full backs. Wing backs are used when you play 3 centre backs.

    I get you're point that they are more attacking and woeful defensively. But, they are playing full back.

    Is there a case for us to return to 3-5-2?
     
  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yes. As long as the 2 is Deeney and Gray and put Richarlison left wing back. He is no worse defensively than Zeegelaar of Holebas.
     
  3. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Exactly. He's not right for the position he's playing in - just like Gray and Deeney
     
  4. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    Got to laugh at this “must go two up front” obsession. The main reason it may be a better tactic now is that we have too many injuries and therefore the quality in midfield is lacking. One up front seemed to work pretty well for the first dozen games with a largely fit/non-fatigued squad.

    That said it was very clear from around 20mins that the game was screaming out for Deeney. There wasn’t a single player in that first half who was getting in amongst the Southampton players and it was all too easy. As it turned out Deeney had a storming half but even if he didn’t he’d have chased down every cause and not allowed Southampton an easy path out of defence.

    My personal view of Silva is that he has a way he likes to play football (don’t all coaches?) and will tend to stick with it as long as possible. Unfortunately we do not currently have the players to play that system. You need dynamic, fast passing, fast thinking players. Maybe he should be able to acknowledge that a bit sooner and switch to a more basic direct approach as per the second half yesterday but when that fails you’ll get the usual suspects moaning about “punting it up to Deeney all the time”.

    Trust me, against better teams we would not have had anywhere near the joy we had second half and more likely would have conceded at least one more goal. On the plus side though, we showed fight and we were playing Southampton who make a living out of giving up leads.

    I would say that it is concerning how our form has dipped since Silva was not allowed to talk to Everton and we can all speculate whether that is the reason. For what it’s worth I think it’s too much of a coincidence even with some unfortunate injuries to key players. However, despite getting some better players in, he does have a point about our transfer dealings of late. This has come more to light in respect of the comment from Duxbury(?) about getting our transfer dealings in January done early. How’s that working out? Unless of course he meant they’d get done early because we are doing nothing!
     
  5. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    You're right. We've got no chance of winning the Champions League, we're out of the UEFA Cup already and the League Cup. The Bundesliga title is out of reach, lifting the Copa del Rey remains a distant dream and, under Silva, this team of underperforming layabouts is nowhere near winning the World Super Cup.

    The season will just fizzle out with nothing more than a top 10 EPL finish and progress in the FA Cup to aim for.
     
  6. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    Is he related to Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink?



    PS I'd also put Richarlison back.. about 5000 miles back on a beach in Brazil! The lad clearly needs a rest cause at the moment he cant barely get past a player. Something he was doing in his sleep a couple of months back.
     
  7. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It’s hardly an “obsession”. People are merely observing that:

    A) Deeney and Gray seem to struggle as lone strikers
    B) we are missing Chalobah, Hughes, Femenia for Silva’s preferred style

    The second point agrees pretty much exactly with your post so not sure why it’s a “got to laugh” moment.
     
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  8. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    Ok, maybe it was a bit of a poor choice of words and comes across a bit confrontational but people seem to veer from one direction to the next and two up front seems to be our latest solution to all our woes.

    I actually would like to see a run with Deeney and Gray given a chance as I could see them building up a good understanding but I feel it’s more about the collapse of our midfield, mainly due to injuries, where we used to dominate which is the main issue at the moment. It has equally destructive effect on both our defence and attack.
     
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  9. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    It should be picked up on, because giving up on a winnable game before it has even started is a "loser" mentality that irks people.

    Leicester are not a "different beast" at home, having won 17 points at home and 14 points away - and we have been just as successful on our travels away, as at home. We can get a point or three at Leicester, even if the odds would be in their favour.

    Still, if we lose, no doubt you will be crowing about how you were right, and we were wrong. Several people on this forum at the moment who are cheering and laughing when something bad happens on the pitch, and booing and seemingly disappointed when something good happens.
     
  10. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    No, it is you that has read some posters believing that we are better with two up front at the moment, and you interpreting that is them believing that would be "the solution to all our woes".

    No-one is saying that.
     
  11. Beekayess

    Beekayess Reservist

    Some thoughts from yesterday :-

    Brilliant scarf display
    Southampton are a very poor side. We made them look good in the first half.
    Deeney's presence helped to turn the game in our favour.
    We seem to do better with 2 up front.
    Pereyra looked much better in the middle of the park.
    We need full backs who can defend - at the moment we are playing wing backs as full backs, and whilst they are okay going forward, they aren't good enough defenders.
    I didn's see the handball at the time, but it seems fairly clear on MOTD; nice to get a break for a change. Unfortunate for Southampton, but I think a draw was a fair result.

    I'm now hoping that the Arse & Manure can do us a favour by winning.
     
  12. Whippendell Woods

    Whippendell Woods Squad Player

    Watson replacement? - Depends on the formation, intention & injury to Cleverley. We need somebody more mobile, able to tackle, offers an attacking threat. Ashley Charles or Carl Stewart would be more eager, faster passing, more forward thinking and faster. Pererya? Even Capoue was wasn't in the squad yesterday. Dion Pereira if you move the midfield about, but Charles & Stewart are stronger. Or a transfer.....

    Jaknovic is a better coach and strategist. More honest. Less of a diva. His foresight and to change the game is superior. Fulham is where his family lives and that club were set up like a Premier League club with Premier League ambition so I don't think k you can call Slavisa out for not being poached by a PL club, if thats what you mean?
     
  13. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    I
    I does appear that people lurch from one solution to another
    Okaka was the answer only a couple of weeks ago
     
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  14. Bookie

    Bookie Academy Graduate

    Don't get too complacent. Check what our odds of relegation were a month ago! With Silva at the helm, this will probably go to the wire, and 2 of our last 3 games are away to Spurs and Man U!
     
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    He may be no worse. But thats not an improvement either. We need real, tangible change across the backline - not putting square pegs in round holes. Richardson is a winger/inside-forward, not a wing-back.
     
  16. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    In an ideal world a team could switch from one tactic or formation to another seamlessly with little or no disruption to performance. Unfortunately even the best teams struggle with this albeit with less dramatic failings due to quality of squad.

    It may seem obvious based on the second half yesterday that a switch to two up front is the way to go. It may be if we are resigned to not improving our midfield through returns and new signings. One key thing overlooked is if we go with two up front you are committing to some degree to getting in strikers. Not sure we, or indeed a lot of clubs, are able to sustain a number of quality strikers. Hell, it’s difficult to keep one good striker.

    This is a bit different with midfielders. They are not so expensive and there is a lot more quality at prices a club like ours can afford. It also is more forgiving from a “risky punt” point of view.

    Bottom line is there is a reason, in additional to tactics, why most clubs go with one up front. It’s nice to be able to go with two up front but when that fails and your midfield isn’t dynamic/involved enough to weigh in with goals you get into real difficulties, and yes I am looking at Igahlo/Deeney.

    One key difference is that we do have better midfielders now which helps, but only when they are fit. Can see why we may be in the market for yet another attacking midfielder. Injuries to just two of our midfielders, one of whom was only a regular just prior to his injury, has shown up how vital cover in this area is.

    Current midfield: Doucouré, Cleverly, Watson, Richarlison, Carrillo. Watson is not good enough, Richarlison needs a break and Carrillo is inconsistent. Pereyra the only realistic cover.

    Fully fit midfield: Doucouré, Cleverly, Chalobah, Richarlison, Hughes. Success, Pereyra, Carrillo among others as cover.

    We could do with a better proven option up front. Just need to find the £20-30m to be in with a sniff of any of them, excluding any wage issues.
     
  17. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Oh come on. Jokanovic hasn't managed in the PL its as simple as that. He has been at Fulham quite some time and he is hardly ripping up trees. Don't get me wrong, I rate him but you simply cannot say he is a better coach and strategist - he hasn't worked in the top division. I'm not saying he isn't better but it cannot be stated as fact that he would be any better. Theres been a few PL jobs become available that if he was a good as many are saying, he would have been close to getting. The fact that his family shouldn't be an issue if he has ambition - unless he believes he can get the Chelsea job!

    And as for putting the kids in the team....please no.
     
  18. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Is the kids comment because you think they aren’t up to it at all? If the options are Watson or a youth defensive midfielder then surely that is as good a time to do it? Unless our youth players are genuinely awful.
     
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It's because there an no noises whatsoever about any of our kids being of the level of promise needed to break through. Am I upset about that? Sure. I'd love nothing more than local, young lads to be near the first team. But when they go on loan, they are going to Crawley or even lower. Or the Scottish lower leagues. If any of the kids that were mentioned above had been out on loan playing regularly in the Championship I'd be inclined to say they may be worth a shout over an ageing Ben Watson. But they haven't so in our current predicament with injuries, I'd be inclined to stick with experience rather than throw a young lad in who hasn't merited it yet.
     
  20. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think the two up top is a bit of a red herring, we were two down against a struggling team who decided they would just game manage the entire second half, we’ve nothing to lose so chuck two strikers on and naturally look better for it, let’s face it, could we have looked any worse than he first half regardless of formation?

    Surely the issue is our woeful pedestrian defence and our lack of being at it from the first whistle?

    Did we surrender winning positions against Palace Swansea and Everton because we didn’t play two up top?
     
  21. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    But who has tried to get him? I like the guy and not completely adverse to him coming back at some point but he’s only ever got one team promoted and has never managed at the top level yet quite seem to think he’s the answer.
    I have nothing against Watson but he is not good enough now and I would rather play the players you mentioned as that might be the future
     
  22. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yep I will defer to your greater knowledge but as you say it indicates that the current crop are without hope of making it with us. In watson’s Position anyway. Wasn’t Charlie Rowan supposedly a good prospect at centre back? If so I’m surprised he isn’t on loan somewhere getting some experience given that he’s 20 now.
     
  23. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    He did make it to the premiership, with us, where several others had failed.
     
  24. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    He literally went out on loan this week:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42667911

    Sods law eh?
     
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  25. Whippendell Woods

    Whippendell Woods Squad Player

    Jokanovic's family only mentioned as reason why he's been loyal to Fulham. Which is what I was asked about. The plus is he's clearly more loyal than a capricious Silva, who has a history of moving on and agitating to suit himself.

    GT hadn't managed in the Prem until he got his club promoted there. Twice. Many others too. Not relevant, really. Jokanovic has played PL football. Managed Champions League. Are you saying he's not good enough?

    Anyway, not my decision, it's Gino's and he dines with super agents, who really pull the strings in football and who pay no attention to popular opinion of forums, fans or has been player pundits on Talksport or Sky's Soccer Saturday:)


    What is important is they line up a new, improved manager....imo.

    And a midfielder or two if the injured will remain unplayable and the current bloke won't play certain others.

    Dion Pereira didn't disgrace himself at all when he was given a chance as a youngster. Neither did Tim Sherwood and many others. My feeling is having an u23 in there might encourage the current squad to work harder on the pitch protecting them and helping them too. Like the way Gomes talks to Richarlison. The crowd would be up for it too. They always are. I've seen those boys play, they can do it, imo..
     
  26. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Fair enough, it yours opinion. But I ask again...where is the evidence in the PL that a new manager has changed our fortunes? The previous two seasons were identical and this maybe is going the same way. It surely makes more sense to back a manager rather than let him go and be in the same position in 12 months time. There is evidence to say a new manager doesn't change things at the club since we have been in the PL. The form is poor but some people just can't seem to get past the whole Everton incident. It was disappointing. But we won the battle, Silva is still here. It's time to put it behind us and move forward.

    A midfielder would be nice but given the noises coming out of the club about January activity, theres going to be minimal to none business done. If we only get a couple in, its vital that the defence is looked at first and maybe another striker. Midfielders can wait in the circumstances.

    Football has moved on since the days of Tim Sherwood's playing days. And I would say it was known that he was of sufficient ability to have a career in the top division. There are no noises like that about any of our kids. I don't say that because I want that to be the case - I want young, local lads playing IF they are good enough to make that step up. The team needs everyone in the 11 to be doing their job, not 10 others trying to protect a youngster as you say. Now isn't the time for that. If these youngsters can do it as you have said, then that means we have PL standard youngsters on the books who are being ignored - why aren't there 4 or 5 of them playing regularly in the Championship? Charlie Rowan is 20 and has gone to Accrington. Dennon Lewis was/is at Crawley. Jakubiak at Falkirk. Mason at Dundee Utd...I could go on. None of those moves say to me that these boys are close to being ready.
     
  28. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Start the campaign well. Hardish to beat. Summer signings look decent. Get a win against a big name club along the way. Start dreaming of how high we can finish. Top 10 a possibility. Head Coach is a genius.

    Then..

    A turning point. Usually a match we should be winning but manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Starts off a bad run. Plenty of injuries too. Summer signings start to look inconsistent. Head Coach no longer a genius but a stubborn arrogant fool. Forum starts squabbling and dividing into two, those who saw it all coming v those who still think we will stay up comfortably. January window seen as being vital but actually delivers little.

    Watford FC 2015-16. 2016-17. 2017-18.

    The story continues.
     
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  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    You can throw out as many insults as you like over my views. It always has to get personal with you, but if that rocks your boat, enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

    I never go after individual posters, I just prefer to talk about club issues.
     
  31. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I just read that as him saying it’s the first time we’ve played 4-4-2 properly.
     
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  32. Vicarage Road

    Vicarage Road Reservist

    In a nutshell. should have been addressed by Silva long ago but hasn’t done either. the player’s body language before games has been nothing short of embarrassing for a while. There’s no talking or encouragement, most of them look like they’re about to play in a meaningless Sunday morning pub league match. Yesterday, after walking out to that amazing scarf display, you’d have hoped some of the players would have been up for it
     
  33. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    The difference is, a Sunday league pub match would be played with more passion than that bunch of losers put in the first half. To this lot, succeeding in their profession seems a long way down the list. At half time I wanted to borrow a pair of their boots and show them how to play with a bit of determination and desire. As for the scarf display, I’m sure tha many of them expect it as they see themselves as celebs as think it’s all about them.

    There. That’s better
     
  34. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    There is no insult in there whatsover, I disagree with what you said in a public post and pointed out your error regarding Leicester's home results, with some facts - get over it. :D
     
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  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Again, you're making it personal.

    Just talk about the points raised if you like. Say why you disagree in a civil manner. There's no need to throw little bombs at everyone. It undermines any points you make, be they valid or otherwise.
     

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