Watford FC 0-0 Sheffield United - 05/10/2019

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Sort of OK, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Linesman dont flag these days unless clearly offside because of VAR. Ball goes in from gray and they check offside. Ball goes wide they just get on with it from the goal kick. In short gray being offside or not cant be deciphered from the lino not flagging.
     
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  2. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    Similar in my bit of The Rookery, only difference was that the grandson took his grandfather and father to task for moaning and called them embarrassing. He was spot on. His grandfather moaned at Capoue a few seasons ago after 34 seconds. It's a coping mechanism,not a very helpful one but we're all powerless to intervene so this is the only option for some.
     
  3. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Do you seriously think it’s “embarrassing” for a fan to express displeasure at Doucoure’s constant lack of concentration or application yesterday?

    Some of our fans are like unthinking religious zealots. It’s quite bizarre.
     
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  4. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    I don't know folkestone but they certainly need one. The tentativeness, nervousness is clear in the play. The unwillingness to try and get past a player, try the dangerous through ball, the paralyzed movement off the ball. The confidence is shot to pieces. They need a pick up. The supporters need to get behind them difficult as it is because it becomes a never ending cycle of doom and gloom. It may not help in the end just witness Huddersfield but hearing constant jeers from the sidelines won't do them any good either. At this level of sport a lot of what happens on the pitch is down to the mind.
     
  5. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Which is even more damning of Gray as he should have easily been able to stay just behind the ball....
     
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  6. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Pereyra probably should have played it in sooner.
     
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    What was so disappointing yesterday was the way we set the team up. 5 across the back, a keeper and a defensive midfielder, against a newly promoted side at home.

    There are not many matches that come along which are games we should be winning. Sheffield United and this type of opponent though, and we really should be taking the game to them.

    From the position we are in now, we need to attack teams like this and try to blitz them. But there was none of it. It was an exercise in how to defend, rather than how to attack.

    Now if we were playing a top 6 side or Leicester or a team of that ilk, then yes, I see it as a formation that could be useful. It's a system that could be useful in the away games as well.

    But not for Sheff Utd at home. It reduced our chances of winning, as SU had very little firepower to cause us the issues that the formation merited.
     
  8. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    But have to get the team used to playing it. Just imagine the reaction of really going for it and losing 2-0. Although Sheff Utd might be limited up front, the fact we kept a clean sheet might give them some confidence
     
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I don't agree. You play that system in the games where you need to play that system. We have more than enough quality to beat Sheffield United. You don't need to go ultra-defensive against this type of opponent. They will not score many goals against you. They are happy to get a 0-0 away. It's a good result from them. The onus is on us to force the game and attack. With this system it's impossible to dominant any opponent. It gives them too much of the ball. We had only 39% possesion.

    Everyone is delighted with a clean sheet. We need wins. 3-2 will be fine. Brighton and Sheffied United are games we need to win at home. Only 1 point and no goals scored is just pathetic.

    People will say it's a building block, but it's only a building block if we get results in the next few games. What's the likelihood of going to Spurs (even this poor Spurs side) and ending up unbeaten? If we lose that then the winless run is extended and Sheffield United will be looked on as a feeble missed opportunity. You have to take advantage of winnable games when they come along.

    We then play Bournemouth, who carry a lot more danger than Sheff U. We are unlikely to keep a clean sheet against them, whatever system we play, so we need to be able to attack them in order to carry a threat. Then it's Chelsea at home and Norwich away. These are tough games against teams who all carry a big goal threat.

    I do not expect we'll keep a clean sheet in any of those games, so we do need to be able to ensure we can attack and not shackled with heavy defensive responsibilites. It's a balance and we have got to find a system that will do both.
     
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  10. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    But for it to work in games like Bournemouth you have to use it beforehand. You say we have enough talent to beat them being more attacking but when was the last time that happened? We had to sort ourselves out as a defensive unit as a priority. That’s what we did
     
  11. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Bang on, had one of our good chances gone in people would be applauding quique for setting us up the way he had. I'm guessing Quina was injured and we had to use the midfield three that we had available.

    The most important thing was looking solid for the first time in months. Sheffield United are unbeaten away from home this season and came to settle for a point. We should have beaten them based on our chances but they are not a Championship side as some are calling them.
     
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  12. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Why do we? You play it in the games you need to play it in. We cannot afford to pass up winnable games and use them as a dress rehearsal for future games.

    You play systems which are going to increase your chances of winning. Yesterday reduced our chance of winning, because it restricted our chances to almost nothing. It was strange that the three chances we did fashion we all gilt-edged, but that's more down to the opposition. They are still Championship side in transition. Against more established Premier League teams we are unlikely to get chances like that, where Pereyra is left alone to run after a ball when United totally switched off. The Welbeck one was good play by him, but again United were easily undone because they were too far forward. The free kick in the last minute, again they left Dawson totally unmarked. They were there for the taking, but we were too timid to take advantage of it.

    We have to use this system first at some point. So why not at Spurs, when it's probably going to be more effective?
     
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  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Spot on. Some people seem to think we get a clean sheet and that will propel us to a 5 or 6 game unbeaten run. The fact is some games in this league are almost certain defeats. When you play a weaker opponent at home, you MUST go for the win. In our situation we need wins in the easier home games it is that simple. We didn't really try to win yesterday's game. Our opportunities came as a result of opponent mistakes. If Sheff Utd had defended as they normally do, we may well have come out of that game with only the Dawson header to speak of. We did not take the game to the opposition or even try to do so. It was an insipid performance.
     
  14. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Yep. Our position is really quite stark already, we are probably going to have win 9 out of the rest of our games with a few draws thrown in. We can't bank on many of those wins coming against the top teams so that squeezes us further. I can't believe people are happy that we set up not to concede in one of the games that should have been in our top 3/4 to win. Keep this up and we'll go down with a whimper.
     
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  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    To get that magic point total, we need 12 wins and 1 draw from the remaining 30 games. I just cannot see that happening. Our only hope of staying up is the relegation cut-off point is a record low total this season, and that's completely out of our hands.

    To even get to 30 points, we need to win 9 games. Who are we going to beat? We'll probably win a few, but I just can't see us getting even to 9 wins.
     
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  16. If we can emulate Crystal Palace's last 30 games last season we'll have 52 points.

    Just saying...
     
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  17. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    As has been said before, 40 points isn't really the safety line, it's almost always a few points below. Let's hope it's closer to 30 this time!
     
  18. Palace last year were in a similar position than us.

    The year before Lesta won the title (the "are you an ostrich?" year) they were dog turd nailed on to go down, then won 7 of their last 9.

    We're in a worrying position, but it's not yet desperate.

    If Gray or Welbeck had put one of their chances away yesterday we would all be saying well done QSF.

    I've never seen a team look more nervous, we look incapable of stringing together 3 passes. That is the gurning idiots fault. Getting embarrassed at Wembley in front of a million TV viewers isn't something easy to come back from.

    QSF has to start from the back and build a solid defensive foundation. Even if we do go down it will at least give us a base to work from next year.

    Going gung ho to outscore the opposition this year, still go down, and then have nothing to work from next year will see us in League 1.
     
  19. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    If we go down, QSF better not be manager next season. I can take championship football, but certainly not him playing it safe at home to Brentford as he inevitably will do.

    Frankly our approach this season has zero impact on next season. The squad and likely management will be radically different and it will be a clean slate, aside from a few substandard players on big contracts whom nobody is interested in buying.
     
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  20. We're not going to ship out 30 players and ship in 30 new players. That's fantasy.

    The bulk of the squad will remain, particularly the defence. If we go down no one is going to want to buy any of our defenders.

    Only if they learn to work as a unit have we any chance of surviving this season, or if we do go down not starting next season with 8 losses and -20 goals and a one way ticket to league 1.
     
  21. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Had we won 1-0 I’m not sure I’d feel any better about the way we set up, but suppose I would find it easier to accept the ends might have justified the means.

    And I don’t think we looked particularly solid. This wasn’t a game where the defence was imperious and we kept the opposition at arms length throughout. There were large periods of questionable organisation where players were having to tell others where to run or mark. I’m convinced a better attacking opponent - and I’m thinking Muff rather than Man City - wouldn’t have found getting through us particularly difficult.
     
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  22. YellowKicks

    YellowKicks Squad Player

    Spot on, we weren't even good defensively yesterday.
     
  23. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Of course we won't get 30 players in. Obviously. But the "top" players will leave (Doucoure/Delo/Welbeck/Pereyra). Janmaat, Foster, Gomes and Holebas will leave on a free. Younger players will be given a chance. Players like Sema,Navarro and Success will likely get starting spots. The younger keepers will step in. Do you honestly think the starting XI next season won't be vastly different?
     
  24. The defensive ‘6’ won’t change significantly even if everything you have listed happens.
     
  25. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I can see both sides to this. The through of Prodl and the two Craigs against Wilson, Fraser and King is pretty terrifying. Not sure a change in formation will nullify this!
     
  26. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    I'd guess we'd have Foster, new RB, new LB, any two of our Champ quality CBs, crocked Chalobah, Hughes, Quina, Sema, Gray, Deeney.

    Gonna be awesome.
     
  27. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I could see us keeping Foster, unfortunately.
     
  28. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Not sure who you mean by "defensive 6" but 2 of the full backs will be released for starters. Dawson/Cathcart will remain. I think Kiko and Kabasele will likely try to leave. Dawson and Cathcart will be adequate in Championship where they will face fewer pacey forwards. Doucoure will go. Perhaps we will keep Capoue, but unlikely. Veteren keepers will both retire unless Foster fancies a contract extension in Champo.
     
  29. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Sounds about right. Navarro will be new RB. Masina will be new LB. Hooray!
     
  30. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    It was a typical Flores set up from 2015.
    That year we started with two 0-0 home games against West Brom and Southampton, both winnable. In fact memory tells me we went as long as we have now to win our first game against Swansea and that we later won 4 in a row and we were effectively safe.
    I have heard Flores say he is treating this period like a mini pre season and his various changes suggest that and I think he will look to settle it all down after the break and then we will start to look better and win.
    Perayra and Kabasele both had good games, the former being the only one who looked completely comfortable on the ball. The team were desperate to keep the new shape and is was a real learning curve where passes were played where they expected to find players only for them not to be there due to the new way they have been told to play. Hopefully this will improve match by match. You won't get the free flowing passing we have seen in the past until we are safe.
     
  31. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    If my auntie had a d**k she'd be my uncle...
     
  32. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    As a bit of light relief from deliberations on this thread (it's not worth a new one), Facebook has just suggested to me that I should be friends with Laurence Bassini. Wtf! As in WTF!!
     
  33. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    One of the problems with the idea of bedding in a three at the back system is that we don't actually have the personnel to play it. As it stands, if we get one single injury we're down to a starting XI and no more; four into three does not go over the course of a season, and that fourth means Dawson playing at centre back, something we'd all frankly like to avoid.

    That is of course before we note that, despite the narrative some are inventing, we weren't particularly defensively solid yesterday. We had a taller player than we have had on the pitch before and Kabasele played well, so we won some of the headers we needed to, even if those headers were consistently aimless and constantly sent straight back at us having arrived gift-wrapped at the feet of a Sheffield Utd player, but they were incredibly happy to play for a point on the road and they also created several heart-in-mouth moments that would have been dangerous had they had any attacking quality in their lineup.
     
  34. Aberdeen

    Aberdeen Academy Graduate

    Good try Cley but I am afraid I need a lot more than that to lighten my mood.
    No side is relegated after only 8 games but I won't be putting any of my grandchildren's inheritance on us staying up.
     
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  35. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    That would be the only positive to relegation. Stripping it back and starting again.

    Dahlberg, Pedro, Penaranda, Hernandez, Quina, Dele Bashiru, Wilmot. Let them go at it with some experienced pros and make some stars!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

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