And Shearer and Lineker agree with us on the pen and failure to use VAR correctly. We must be right, then.
Just seen the Spurs goal in slow motion. Awful defending. Foster totally missed the the ball as it bounced up and Kiko could have easily cleared the danger. Ok, we should have had a penalty, but VAR is not at fault for their goal, only our own players.
Abso-****in-lutely. Imagine being a Premier League referee sat in front of a monitor whose sole job was to watch replays and missing the handball in the Newcastle goal when we played them. You are being paid a handsome wage to make a couple of decisions a game and you simply miss something. What was the consequence for Pawson? Did they take him off VAR as he was clearly incompetent? Maybe give him a few weeks extra training? Nope, they put him back as a VAR two weeks later... in another Watford game. There is absolutely no ******* way they would do that if he'd made that error in a Liverpool or Man City game. It shows how inconsequential we are to the Premier League and how arrogant the officials club are.
Unfortunately, I think the only people who didn't think it was a pen and who think they are using VAR properly are those making the decisions. It's astounding that a decision can be so universally condemned after they had a chance to review using a bloody video replay. There's no excuse. None.
Seems like most pundits so far are agreeing that it pretty much hit the arm for their goal. Around the premier league badge area according to Mr Lineker and co.
As said on MOTD the ref could have reviewed either decision himself at the side of the pitch. Then VAR don't even need to overrule...
I did read the PL said they weren't keen on the pitch side monitors being used as it would take up too much time . Very true to say it was our own mess for the goal but handball is handball ..
There's no doubt we've been on the aggregate receiving end of VAR decisions so far this season. However the Rose pen. incident was also reviewed today. I thought it was a pen. It wasn't given. So that would be 6-1 then. There may be others we've benefitted from too. I haven't been keeping lists. Those are the ones we tend to forget and, in your case hb1, ignore completely. Neither can I remember six of our own. I can remember one against Brighton, one against Everton (which I didn't think was a pen.), one against Newcastle and two today. Which one am I missing? So you see, we're now into 4-1+ territory and nothing is clear and we didn't all 'know it would be this way anyway'. I'm afraid you're the most blinkered and biased football fan I've ever come across. Your fundamental inability to understand that if you're going to keep lists then they have to be lists with two columns rather than one and try and achieve a modicum of objectivity, renders any comparative study you might undertake showing us to be 'hard done by' utterly worthless. As in 'fake news'. No doubt you'll disagree. However, as said, so far this season I'd agree we've been comparatively hard done by.
The trouble with the pitch-side monitor, apart from the time taken, was seen in the World Cup Final. Once the VAR has told the ref to ‘have another look’, it’s obvious they think the decision should be changed so the ref is under tremendous pressure to change it. It would be very hard for a ref to stick with his decision if he can see a foul or handball on the replay. What should happen is that, when the VAR sees an error, the decision should be taken out of the ref’s hands and changed. (Or preferably scrap VAR.)
I agree with you that I can’t remember 6 decisions going against us and that the Everton one wasn’t a penalty, but there was a huge difference between the Rose and Deulofeu claims today. You can’t be in the ‘he was touched so he was entitled to go down’ camp because that’s what GD did at Everton, but it was certainly also what Rose tried today.
I think there may have been 6 VAR calls we've not got. 2 have been 100% wrong. 2 70-99% wrong and 2 50%-69% wrong. Anything under 50 by definition is not probably wrong. (49% wrong means its 51% right?). 50-69% is partially acceptable in my view to fail to overturn. Its like umpires call for ball tracking in Cricket lbw. Enough doubt for acceptance from everyone. There is a suspicion the umpire makes calls based on which team has a review left though. Pitch side monitors are pointless, if the decision is wrong, then its wrong. I cant fathom why you need the one person who got it wrong to accept it before overruling when 3,4 or 5 officials said "check the monitor" it meant it was wrong and watching the replay the on field ref never once disagreed. Or had the guts to do so. What the FA have done is eliminate VAR incorrectly overturning the on field ref. To give the Rose penalty to Spurs I feel would have been contentious, Pererya got in his way like a defender should and didnt make any tripping motion apart from leaning into the challenge with his shoulder. There was contact and i think that contact did make rose go over so possibly could be construed as a penalty. But 55% top in favour of Rose. What I wouldn't want is soft penalties like that being given - its something feared from VAR that we'd have 5 penalties per game. In VAR central they've looked at Deulofeus incident and must have decided there was doubt. Did Vertongen touch the ball? I dont think so but could they have seen an angle that looked like he did? Did Deulofeu initiate the contact? Did Deulofeu throw himself over or exaggerate what contact there was? No and no in my view but perhaps that was interpreted in the video room. The FA need to review their implementation of VAR. QSF moaned about subjectiveness but in taking subjectiveness out by only overturning ghost goals and wrong person red cards they're getting more wrong. We would have 4 more points this season if the ***** had got the system right.
Of course VAR is not at fault. The referee clearly is. His incompetence cost us 2 points yesterday. It's inexcusable.
We was robbed. A penalty not given and a Spurs handball goal.... Regardless as to whether Kiko and Foster were absolute donkeys leading the the goal, it shouldn’t have stood. The officials are worse than they’ve ever been - and it’s no doubt cost us more points than we’ve earnt currently. What has VAR actually brought to the league... Waste of ******* time and money
Femenia had been dropped. He came on because Janmat, who I thought had a good game, had presumably picked up an injury. It was Foster's mistake for the goal. However, keepers are in that unfortunate position of being likely to cause immediate goals with their mistakes. I don't notice anybody praising him for tipping that shot onto the bar - an excellent save, that. Conversely, Janmat popped up in a couple of unexpected attacking positions, but muffed his chances badly; and at least one of those chances should have been put away for the extra two points. Yet, as I say, I thought he had a good game, overall.
I don't think it's fair for people to pick out Foster all the time. Yes, he's made mistakes but I would say far fewer than many others on the team. Goalie mistakes are invariably more serious as they can often lead to a goal. Look at everything Foster did right yesterday, slowing the play down and frustrating Spurs (Kane in particular, highly amusing!) and the crowd from the first half onwards whilst staying just on the right side of a yellow card. Players who missed sitters yesterday that could have put us two up (maybe even three up?) were just as much to blame yet there's been little criticism of them so far. Had they have done their job properly, Foster's error wouldn't have mattered.
Yes I remember at the Vic his attempted dive for a free kick and Deeney picking him up off the floor ******* himself laughing. Even the microphone pitchside picked up his helium style scream as we went down that was so odd sounding even Lloydinho wouldnt be able to beat it.
Terrible may have been a slight exaggeration from myself however he does have a mistake in him be that his rashness in coming out or the goal yesterday. But who do we replace him with? I agree about the strikers, we can't keep being wasteful when looking for our first win. We keep snatching at shots.
For everyone critical of the dull and negative line up vs Sheff Utd, I hope that we can now see the platform that Quique was trying to build with the tools he has available. We nearly and should have won yesterday. We gave Spurs the ball and allowed them to play in our half, but rarely did they get a chance to score. The formation and discipline saw to that. Their actual goal came from a freakishly bad mistake by two individual pros who should both be held to higher standards. Whether this sort of atteitritional style will he enough to save us, remains to be seen, but this is what Quique was brought in to do and, with the completely unbalanced squad we have, injuries we are how accruing and the complete lack of spine in the team, it's all he can really do IMO. Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Totally agree. Yesterday we didn't win because of mistakes by the referee. The same thing occurred at Newcastle. So officials have been directly responsible for Watford losing 4 points. That still doesn't take away how bad we've been all season. Add 4 points to our total, and it's still a pathetic 8 points from 9 games. With two games coming up, and our failure to even score the first goal at home, makes playing at the Vic a disadvantage. Bournemouth and Chelsea are the next two games. Of course Bournemouth should not be considered beyond us in terms of picking up points, but Chelsea, who I thought would struggle, look very good this season, so it's unlikely we'll get too much from that game. The last time we scored the first goal at home against a current Premier League side, was 3rd March!! That's just dreadful. The last two games have been missed opportunities. We could and probably should have picked up 6 points instead of just the two. I blame Flores for only getting a draw at home to Sheff Utd, and the officials for being robbed at Spurs. We need wins, and only 3 or 4 in quick succession will turn our season around now. I just don't see it happening.
Hello Watford. I am a Man City fan. I joined your forum in the build-up to the FA Cup. I just wanted to say how annoyed I was by the decisions at the Spurs game. Spurs have done us twice over VAR in the last minute. It feels terribly unjust when it goes against you. I don't know what to say other than use the anger as motivation.
No. The VAR official was the one at fault. The Deleofeu penalty was difficult to see first time round from the ref's angle. Rightly he referred it and the Stockley Park guy got it badly wrong.
Hello and welcome. Thank you for your moral support. However, both the VAR calls v Spurs that went against you were correct. The first, for offside, cost you dearly. The second, under the new handball law, was technically correct too but harsh. Officials could be forgiven for missing both of those in real time. The two decisions that went against us yesterday were, we'd contend, instances of where VAR got it wrong. Which makes us very annoyed indeed!
I agree with all of that except your last sentence. It would seem that the the 'arrogant refs' club' here don't like VAR. They therefore have a vested interest in undermining it so that people say what you just did. In which case they'd have won. They won't win though. VAR's here to stay. What's required is for the FA and PL to issue a firm directive to the 'arrogant refs' club to 'get your f.cking house in order'.
Counter point is if didn't have VAR, those 2 incidents would have us screaming 'We need VAR!' The technology is fine, their facilitation of it is the problem.
Yes, sorry, a flippant comment on my part. As much as I hate it, I know VAR is here to stay. The other aspect is that, for whatever reason, the refs in our league have (arrogantly) decided to use it in a completely different way to the rest of the world, with the ‘high bar’, no use of screens etc. I think this is unfair both on fans and players who will experience the different interpretation in European and international football.
VAR is a good concept. It is still in its early days of use and hopefully over time it will be used better. The main objection to its introduction was that it could cause delays but I never saw that as a problem However if you use VAR it is essential that the correct decision results. Yesterday I am not convinced that was the case.
An away point to Spurs - especially after our season's start should be cause for celebration but somehow it feels so much more about the two points lost rather than the one gained.
