The problem is last night showed there is no new manager bounce. We still can barely create a chance let alone score one. Against the worst defence in the league! We're ****ed. Last nights performance gave me zero hope. It was grim. An awful evening.
My take on the match Keeper did well as did Mapps at right back. Apart from the stupid back header, Pr*dl looked more like his old self. To his credit, I thought Capoue played well for the first twenty minutes then faded into his normal plodding self. Richarlison is a waste of a space. Offered nothing again. At least Gracia had the balls to take him off. Silva would have played him the whole match then shoved his tongue up his arse. Deeney receiving a lot of stick. Personally, I thought he battled hard. Anyone who has played that role will appreciate how hard and horrible it is. When Gray came on, I noticed he bottled out of every challenge above knee height. Thought the new lad done ok. He obviously didn’t realise he was joining a team scrapping for their lives. Overall, happy with the attitude and point. We would have rolled over with Snake in charge Onwards
Like you (I assume), I don't have psychic powers so have no way of saying for certain how the remainder of the season will pan out, but it is my view that this team, under this manager has sufficient quality to generate 38 points by the end of the season - a points total which, in all but one of the last 10 EPL seasons (in 2010/11 Birmingham and Blackpool went down with 39), has been amply sufficient to avoid relegation. You may think differently and, of course, you are entirely free to do so, but please don't call my view 'foolish' simply because it is not one that you share.
I can think of three decent chances without even trying hard - Richarlison shot from Deulofeu's cross, Doucoure's shot blocked by Shawcross with the keeper beaten and Pereyra scuffing a shot near the end when played in as the man over. We can't put chances away, that's clear. But we're still making them.
But I do think your view was foolish so can't i say that ? You are happy to state "..... the non-stop negativity of those people on this site who have a tendency to catastrophise the slightest setback, we are currently comfortably on course to stay up.". Point 1 - to use the ytd average points per game and just assume we will continue at that rate, ignoring the fact that we have been achieving far less than that since the Autumn and have key players injured, a new coach, our 2 best players are now knackered and consequently poor, is foolish/meaningless. Point 2 - 38 points may not keep us up and certainly won't "comfortably" keep us up. I have no issue with you stating you believe we will get 38 points and that you feel that will be enough to keep us up. But to argue that based on our average points per game over the whole season is foolish. I have said I think we will lose to the 5 who are in the top 6 which means we need to W3 D2 L3 of the other 8. Maybe we'll get a point from the difficult 5 meaning one less draw is needed. Thats why i don't think we will get 38 points. And I'm not sure 38 points would be enough. Sorry if you class that as "non-stop negativity".
Again, you are simply stating your view on the way the season will unfold. Which is fine. It's not a vision that I share, but so what! You are guessing. So am I. So is everyone. Just because you choose to post under the name 'The undeniable truth' doesn't mean that what you think is undeniably true!
I don't think 38 will be needed. There are 3 other teams that won't get 38. There are 4 other teams currently in freefall - Brighton, Newcastle, Huddersfield, southampton. Stoke aren't much better. We are 7 points above west brom. I'd say 35 plus some good GD could be enough.
Despite the results the new manager thing has seen us improve at least defensively. Last night was not pretty but is it ever vs Stoke. Karnesis looks more than decent cover and I would put him on par with Gomes. I can’t stand Mariappa at right back but last night I thought he did ok but the fact he was chosen over Janmaat shows more how bad Janmaat is than how good Mariappa is. Holebas was much better and maybe that argument with the fans on Saturday was actually quite helpful. Prodl, after a shaky start looked a lot better and that is a big plus. Hopefully Kabesele is ok as I think that’s our best partnership. Capoue has not done enough in his entire career but actually he put in a decent shift last night and he might be better as a defensive midfielder than an attacking one Doucoure worked hard but I think his passing has been a bit off for a while but god help us if he gets injured The new lad. Showed glimpses of his obvious quality in a game not really suited to his style but promising Richarlison. Still working hard but the golden boy is more bronze, still decent but not as good as he was Deeney. I thought he worked very hard against two of the biggest centre backs in the league and when Gray came on I felt there was a very good understanding that looks as though would help us and would certainly try it against Chelsea Gray. As I said above seems to know what Deeney will do and I felt he did ok when he came on and nearly created a goal Pereyra. Obviously talented but needs to start producing, bottled out of one challenge and should have scored. He’s turning in to a Capoue, lots of ability but doesn’t show it enough I saw enough last night to make me believe we will be ok especially if we can get some players back but that’s probably the biggest concern. Bloody hell it was cold and walked back in a blizzard.
You are cleverly (Tom?) avoiding my point. You ridiculed those who feared relegation because we had averaged more than a point a game and so would comfortably stay up with 38 points if we continue as we are going, ignoring recent form, injuries, and what the remaining games are. The equivalent would be me saying we are averaging 0.5 points a game over the last 12 games so will finish on 27 + 0.5 x 13 = 33.5 say 34 so we will be comfortably relegated and anyone who posts otherwise is a dreamer. No issue with us holding different views, it was just your initial assertion that we were comfortably on track to get to 38 points using average form across the whole season that i took issue with.
For clarity, I am simply saying that in my personal opinion we will achieve 38 points (or more) this season. That equates to an average of one point per game. It doesn't matter when in the season those points are acquired! 38 points has been more than enough to ensure survival in all but one of the last 10 EPL seasons. The End
Fine, now the flawed logic has gone ! I don't think we will get to 38 for the reasons I've given but yes we are both guessing.
I remember little new manager bounce with Jokanovic. I think he changed the team by more fundamental hard work than just a new smiley face. I hope Gracia can too. We have a good footballing team - get them tight at the back and hard to beat and we should get sufficient results.
Jossy said ..."Regarding selection over Deeney/Gray - both players have their haters (and those that hate both). Had Gray started, his haters would have said the rough and tumble nature of the game suits Deeney much better. As it was the other way round, Troy has come in for criticism again. Our best chance with Doucoure was created by Gray - but it was Deeney's slide rule pass in to him that enabled Andre to get to the byline and pull it back. The obvious conclusion is that we really need to find a way to get them both on the pitch at the start." Spot on. Playing two up front for at least half a game has to be the way forward. Deeney and Gray can do that.
The challenge will be how we keep it v tight at the back, esp given the injuries and current lack of credible RB & LB, whilst also playing 2 strikers.
Not so sure. This has been the most condensed league I can remember, with only a few points separating 10th to bottom. I think WBA are looking in dire straits but anything above them is in my view still within one good weekend of safety. That’s how close it is. Drawing with stoke isn’t great but in my opinion they sacked Hughes at the time they did knowing they had two six pointers to contend with and two that were both winnable; Huddersfield, which Stoke won, and us. Teams in the bottom 6 or 8 are picking up points against anyone and everyone else - Bournemouth winning at Chelsea a fine example of this. We can’t rely on teams below us losing the games we expect them to lose on paper. That’s a very dangerous game. There are games which I’ve identifued as must win; Palace, WBA, Newcastle at home. West Ham away has come at the right time, with their “injury crisis” and lack of form. This is a winnable game, and one that will really separate us from those below. I suspect the 12th man will come in very handy for this one. Then there’s games that, if we don’t win, we simply cannot lose. Huddersfield, Burnley, Bournemouth, for instance. Losing against Chelsea (which given their form suddenly becomes a more favourable and attractive fixture), Arsenal, Spurs and United will have absolutely no effect if we get three points in the ‘must-wins’ and avoid losing against the teams mentioned above. That takes us to safety with plenty to spare. And when I say plenty, I mean we can manage with the occasion f*** up in a game we expected something.
Yeah I hope you're right. Last night knocked the stuffing out of me a bit. A win will transform everything though. We badly, badly need one. A wounded chelsea is not an ideal next match, but the belief we'll get if we win it will be immense.
Wasn’t too bad a performance yesterday, we showed some fight and managed to keep a clean sheet which are both positives. We seemed quite petulant at times though, silly fouls and bookings. Doucoure was lucky he didn’t catch Crouch in the face at the end otherwise he’d have seen red. Although you could say it was a passionate response rather than a petulant one. Either way, discipline needs a serious looking at. Not that that is news to anyone, but it was particularly bad last night. Keep defending like we did (minus one or two silly errors) and put one of our chances away and we’ll get that win. Once we’ve got 3 points behind us we’ll push on, where it will come from though is anyone’s guess. Chelsea would be a massive lift if we can win it.
Haven’t seen it mentioned but thought we should have had a penalty in the first half for a pull on Deulofeu. Has anybody seen it again?
It's the failings against Swansea, Palace and Huddersfield especially, plus the lucky escape against Southampton which I think has played the biggest part in denting the confidence that this team has the cojones to stand up and scrap in the so called 6 pointer games. Like I said, a point yesterday is great, but do we have the capacity to build on that and take wins? I cant see it. We still can't score and it took two great saves and some profligacy from Stoke to keep a clean sheet yesterday. Better teams would always score against us.
I get why people are on a downer about the team but I don’t think it’s worth getting too fixated on current form. We’ve seen a different Watford this season too. It was a while back but they definitely have the capacity to play much better. Maybe if current form reflected the whole season I’d agree it was too optimistic to think we’d suddenly perk up now. But I think Gracia will make us more solid and that will create a small amount of time for the attacking players to build some confidence again. As for better teams scoring against us – I don’t think we’ll ever go through a game at this level without letting the opposition have one or two chances. Few teams do that. Stoke will point to blocks and saves their keeper had to make too and probably say exactly the same as you just did. I can’t see the teams I named coming to the Vic and going mental. They’re going to play percentages, try to keep everything tight and, if we can get more solid at the back, they’re going to have to be a lot more clinical than teams needed to be against us in recent months. They're going to be nervous and have been around the bottom all season for a reason - we will get decent chances too.
What this game will have done is give us back a bit of confidence. It's a strange thing confidence. We could see it with Karnezis for instance, who on his debut looked like his full knowledge of goalkeeping came from a book he read several years ago. Once one went in, his knees started to knock and he went to pieces. Similarly with Iggy. There were those months when everything he did went in the back of the net. Then the goals dried up and no matter what he tried he couldn't hit a barn door. We ended up with that easy gaping open goal he missed v Man United at home. Similarly with Richie. You can almost see it. When he first came, he tried and often successfully completed outrageous tricks and turns and nutmegs. Now he's got stopped and stifled and marked out of the game a few times and suddenly he's trying to 'just do the simple things right' and even those aren't coming off for him. If we get a decent result against Chelsea (and I'd include a narrow unlucky defeat where we play well and score at least one in that definition) then confidence will go on building that yes, we can take these teams on and beat them.
I imagine the target will be about 38 points which is a tall order for West Brom considering that they have only won once in the league since August and will need to consume 18 points from their remaining games.
Yes. Will be interesting to see what impact their win against Liverpool and signing of Sturridge will have. There's at least one team who rise from the ashes over the last 2 months (used to be sunderland !).
[/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG] [/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG] via Imgflip Meme Generator
Clev looked fine walking down the tunnel at the end, no sign of limping. Should be out for six months then
Gracia getting some sort of shape and fight into our previously pathetic defence is a good first step and gives us some foundation, lets see if he can fix some of the other problems...
I missed the first 20mins, watched the next 25mins in Arabic and finally the 2nd half in English Don’t know what started it all, but looked a bit like 22 grown men kicking the **** out of each other. Was disappointed we didn’t score, but at least we didn’t loose, didn’t think we looked that great but thought the attitude looked so much better ,scared to say it, but even holebas and capoue seemed to be giving it a go. Thought Karnezis looked good and now starting to think we actually have a decent reserve keeper. New guy (not going to attempt to spell his name) looked good (apart from that shot). Doucoure and Rich look knackered - I think they both have a lot of talent but aren’t going to make it to the end of season Nice to see cleverly back - shame he will now be off again for a couple of months. Pain in the arse the next game is against a Chelsea who just lost 3-0 to Bournemouth , we could have done with an easier game to help build confidence
