Our hopeless defending

In the last eight games, we've conceded 14 goals and 11 of them have been from crosses/wide positions - and that's having played with both three and four at the back.

All three goals last night were from low crosses into the box (unmarked player then airshot from defender; OG; keeping error).
Both Swansea goals came from high balls into the box (unmarked player then offside; poor clearing header from a free kick).
Leicester scored from a cross (unmarked player).
Huddersfield scored from a corner and from a cross (outmuscled then offside; unmarked and airshot from defender)
Palace scored from a shot from out wide and a pull back from wide (showed inside then keeping error; unmarked player)
Burnley scored from a low cross (unmarked player).
Spurs scored from a low cross (unmarked player)

You don't need to break us down with any particularly good play to score, you just need to put the ball into the penalty area and more likely than not, we won't bother marking you. The most frustrating thing is that in almost all of those examples, defenders outnumbered the attackers yet we have a) allowed a ball into the box under little pressure and b) had numerous players standing around marking no-one. I have no idea what Silva is working on in training, it's can't be our limp attacking play that's recorded seven goals in the last eight games so surely he must be trying to drill the defence properly?

The Mahrez and Sterling goals are the worst examples of a defence all at sea. Both times we had Janmaat being beaten easily and then a cross coming in with one of our centre backs in no man's land halfway across towards Janmaat but with no opposition player anywhere near them, another centre back and Zeegelaar near the six yard box both marking one player and the goalscorer stood in acres of space at the far post just waiting for the ball. Why aren't they all shuffled along so that Zeegelaar picks up the goalscorer, and the two centre backs are around the six yard box?

 

Aside from Kiko our fullbacks are appalling. Holebas, Janmaat and Zeelegar let balls into the box for fun, they simply do not do their main job which is to defend and stop crosses coming into the box, they are embarrassing.

Obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing but the extra money on Kieran Gibbs wages would’ve easily been covered by the extra places higher we would’ve finished in the league, or dare I say it staying in the league.

 

We've got a manager who either doesn't know how to organise a defence or doesn't care. Remember the utter hammerings Hull took last year? This is just how it's going to be until he leaves.

Whether you prefer this to QSFs approach is a matter of opinion. Personally, I do as I think we're more likely to fluke a cup win playing this way.

 

Not exactly fluking league wins with our defending!

 

The players are poor but Silva can't be excused completely. Flores showed that a decent coach can drill average players into a solid defence. Silva doesn't seem to be bothered that much with defence which is fine when we were playing sexy football at the start of the season, but for mid-table sides like us there are times when you need to grind out results and we just can't rely on our defence. I'm still annoyed about Everton, Palace and Swansea, we'd be on the verge of safety with those wins.

 

Depends what you mean by fit. They could be fit enough to play (i.e. not injured) but can they actually compete for 95 minutes (not just 90)?

Prodl is able to play but not match fit. Not sure we're going to get the likes of Chalobah and Kiko back to their best before the season is out.

 

Previous couple of games it was Prodl's lack of mobility which severely cost us, yesterday it was Zeegelaar's lack of awareness and alertness - he was the main man at fault for first and third goals and just fell asleep when supposed to be defending; he looks a real defensive liability.

 

We cut too many corners when recruiting defenders, went for the cheap option. Did try to sign Gibbs this season though but now the defence needs a £25 million makeover.

 

Janmatt is truly awful and his confidence looks shot too. Zeegelaar looked decent but has recently gone to pieces.

A defensive overhaul was due a long time ago. Not sure the centre backs are that bad, but they are under so much pressure by the clog / windmill / insert Dutch stereotype boys.

 

The sticking plaster which we could've applied months ago has become a whole reboot because our personnel are just all sinking to the same level and people who used to be good are now awful.

We've all seen most of our defenders play ok in the past, but this season they've been hopeless.

 

Need to get a good defensive coach who knows the Premier League, Silva can then concentrate on that tippy-tappy nonsense.

 

everything will be fine when britos is back!

 

What was more telling for me last night was a few moment s after Zeegelaar let an unmarked Sterling get a tap in, a similar ball came into the box which was heading out of play but MZ helped it along its way and out for a corner because he literally had no idea where sterling was.

He was nearly on the edge of the bloody box!

 

I think we have a very unholy trinity.
1) Players who were once reliable are now vulnerable,either due to injury or reaching the end of their effectiveness.They are returning to a side on a losing run which doesn't help their...
2) Confidence.Losing,especially in the manner we have on three occasions ( Everton,Palace and Swansea) is corrosive. I can't remember being so deflated after these three matches,imagine how the players feel? Some may respond that the players don't care but it certainly impacts on their belief and decision making. I lost a very important match from a set and 4-1 up and it took me 18 months to fully recover. As many have stated if we had managed to draw these matches we would all be feeling a lot more at ease.
3) A coach who seems either unable or unwilling to organise our defence as an entity.Constant upset to the line up has not helped but surely there is a 'Silva Strategy'?

 

Looking at Hulls results under him -for the last 18 games they conceded just under 2 goals a game and he had a 50% loss ratio. After 22 games we have conceded just under 2 goals a game with also a 50% loss ratio.

One factor in his appointment seemed to be a better style of football compared to QSF and Walt. To date we may have that but he clearly is not a defensively minded coach with only stoke conceding more

I may be surprised but I just cannot see the number of players we seem to need coming in this month. He will have to work with what we have in the main and grind out results by tightening up defensively or more likely try to out score our opponents.

 

Its not Silva's fault its the recruitment. He made public he wasn't happy with the defensive side of the business very early on. And even some of them have been injured. You can only play with what you got.

That's why every season I have predicted a 'relegation battle' i.e. a low league position, rather than a high league position like some.

Since the return to the Premiership, our defence, apart from the first half of the season under QSF, has been a leakfest.

 

There is only one way to look at it. Since we have come into the Premier League, we have massively cut corners when recruiting defenders. There has been very, very little financial outlay. We have shown that we have shrewd owners. I’m not one for spending just for spendings sake but:

Prodl, Cathcart, Kaboul, Holebas, Britos, Wague, Femenia, Zeegelaar, Nyom, Ake, Mariappa, Zuniga - all Free, Loans or Nominal Fees.

Dja-Djedje, Janmaat, Kabasele - Larger, yet still reasonably small Fees.

Granted some have been good servants and have been shrewd.

On the whole though, this just shows to me that it isn’t just Silva who doesn’t pay attention to the defence. It comes from the top down with little investment. I understand picking up the likes of Femenia on a free - I’m not saying the recruitment doesn’t work in places, but it’s flawed and very heavily financially weighted to the other areas of the team.

We have full-backs who simply can’t, or don’t want, to defend. Janmaat and Zeegelaar are neither full-backs, nor wing-backs. They are more like failed wingers who don’t like defending. I honestly don’t see Zeegelaar being any better than Lloyd Dyer - you can get away with attacking full-backs if you have 2/3 really solid CB’s on the pitch, but we don’t have 1. Until we spend on good defenders, our full-backs shouldn’t be going over the halfway line if we play 4 at the back. We need to get back to proper basics of four defenders playing in a line until then.

I have said it ever since pre-season that this defence cost us last season and it should have been a priority and it’s been overlooked again. I don’t think we will go down - but it will be close if we don’t spend proper money on proper defenders for once.

We can list all the wingers, strikers or midfielders we want - but anyone we buy in those positions will be to bolster strength in depth. We need quality defenders now to come into that starting XI. I can see there being meltdown on here come the last week of January when we leave it to the last minute to go bargain-hunting again.

 

A word in defence of our goalkeeper-

Saw a lot of comments both in the shoutbox and subsequent match thread suggesting he is "Finished at this level" (Only one has to say it and it's followed by 25 saying it ) that he's "cost us 15/20/untold points this season.. and that he cant handle shots low down.

Is this all true? Well unlike most people i actually went back and watched all the goals we've conceded this season and my assessment of where Gomes might have been at fault is as follows..

• Swansea away- decent stop initially/ no cover (didnt cost us points)
• Palace away- two parrys.. decent stops & no help in front of him.
• Brighton away- ball went under him. Mistake
• Swansea home- parry to incoming forward. Mistake.
• Last night- parry to incoming forward. Mistake.. but under considerable pressure.

These all came from shots low down so there's some justification that this is his weak area (same with most keepers possibly?)
I would say there were two in that list where he was totally at fault.. at Brighton and at home to Swansea.. and a couple where he could have done better. The Premier League lists stats of errors leading to goals (their interpretation i know) and also have Gomes down as two. https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
So yes he's cost us points.. but then how many points has he gained us?

PS My reason for including this here is because the goalkeeper is part of the defence.. and especially since in many cases where he has parried the ball he doesnt receive any help from our slow reacting defenders.

 

Problem we have with defenders is that we had long term injuries even before the season started . Cathcart and Kaboul our and injury prone, Femenia out start of season, Janamat only having to do a sprint before pulling something and that's before suspensions for silly sending off. Over the last two seasons we have not had the chance to select the same combination from game and that's before you factor in gomes being far from decent in goal. Some big decisions before the end of the January window. I personally would like a durable no nonsense british player to come in but more chance of another unknown.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Just look at Richarlison as a case in point, we paid something like £10-£11m for a young and unproven gamble, obviously he has turned out to be a great signing in his own right but it was ultimately a gamble, yet we’ve never been willing to spend anywhere near that on a proven non-gamble defender. I appreciate that generally attacking midfielders cost more so under the Pozzo model Richarlison would have a better potential sell on value, but VVD has just gone for £75m so it’s not like a decent defender won’t at least hold their value. If we continue to treat defence as the poor relation to the rest of the team then we will consistently be in this position, you’ll never achieve anything conceding two goals per game which is what we’ve done this season.

The big problem now is that the defence has suffered three years of chronic under investment so we’ve now reached the stage that we virtually need to replace the whole thing.

 

It's well argued and the goalkeeper's lot is to make one mistake and for it to be pivotal.
The help in front of him,especially when he has parried the ball,has been non existent.
The lack of a decent alternative is possibly the more pertinent point. I thought Karnezis was highly regarded but he didn't have the best debut,albeit that it must be difficult coming on a substitute keeper.
Perhaps we'll see him on Saturday?

 

It seemed clear to me that we were missing a defensive leader. Someone to tell bloody Zeegalaar to push out with everyone else. Someone to get Janmaat into position. Someone to marshal the defence, wave their arms around and shout a bit.

Britos and Kaboul (in particular) are able to do that, but are out injured. The only other with that capability would be Mapps.

 

I felt a bit sorry for Gomes again last night. I already mentioned how the shot v Swansea swerved in the air by quite a distance, making it a pretty good effort to save it at all. Similarly last night, the cross was hard, low and with a wet, slippery ball. Their forwards knew that and were all waiting ready to pounce should Gomes spill it. Our defenders were all caught completely and utterly by surprise by this turn of events and could only stand and watch as they punted it in.

Both v Swansea and last night, our defenders have had zero reaction to the keeping mistake. Nothing.

It's not entirely his fault.

 

Assuming we stay up this year, in the summer i'd like to see us keep Femenia, Kabasele and Mariappa and gut the rest.

 

Agree with all of this except about strikers. I think we need to sign two, especially if Okaka goes.

 

And Chalobah, Hughes, Doucoure, Richarlison and Pereyra of course...

 

But Britos, Kaboul and Mariappa are all still very very average defenders who have made just as many mistakes as the rest of them.

 

Yes, I agree we could do with a striker or two. But any striker we are able to get won’t be the difference between staying up or going down at the minute. New defenders will be IMO.

January is notoriously difficult to get good value for good quality. So you either have to overpay or take on average players just to bolster numbers. If we can only do limited business, strikers can wait. Defenders can’t.

 

I still think the coaching had a lot to do with our problems at the back.

None of our CB's are poor. Internationals and experience, all of them. They are quite capable. But all are falling short of what they can do.

They make basic errors too often. Too often out of position. Too often losing their man. Too often, not even sure who their man is. Man marking one minute, zonal the next. In the past we have been able to anticipate what our defenders role is, which side they play, who they'll be marking, not these days. It seems to me they are thinking too much as they are not drilled enough in their duties. Their defending seems reactionary (although Kabesele is alone as the only person that actually anticipates anything), rather than proactive. Confused, without direction, without focus. They are not playing as a team.

I am not saying the players are blameless, they are clearly not, but much of what I describe is down to coaching. Leadership is all about making sure your team know what they are meant to be doing. Unless Silva has no respect and the players are taking no notice, then he is certainly failing in that respect.

 

Were our defenders caught by surprise or have they been coached to push out in order to catch the opposition offside? It's hard to react to a loose ball if you're running the other way.

 

I agree in part. None of them are poor. But we are 10th and a lot of fans are moaning, and given the current form, rightly so. It seems that a lot of fans believe we should be aiming for around 10th and pushing higher - thats when our CB's are poor by relation. None of them are consistently good enough to play for a team with that ambition. Sure at times they have played well individually in patches, Prodl even played well for 90% of a season and got Player of The Season - but in a terrible defensive unit. Its not enough to do it for one season. Consistency at this level needs to be year after year to be a top 10 PL team.