New Car Tax Rules

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by La_tempesta_cielo_68, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. I must have been half asleep when George slimey Osbourne greased this little number and slid it up our walter mazzari because I'm sitting on the laptop doing a bit of surfing as you do pondering a change of car and thinking maybe I should think green and get a hybrid..... only to see it's a complete waste of time, from April for all new cars it's a flat rate car tax from year 2 no matter if the engine is made of mango and best friends with the badgers or its a 27 litre v12 from a spitfire. WTF? On top of that there's a wealth tax of £310 due for 5 years if you buy a nice car so if like me you like your cars, tough t**ty. Road tax used to be about encouraging efficiency and technology, now it's obviously screw the trees lets smash people for money. I guess the ideal car for a manufacturer to design is now a 100 foot long coal powered tracked behometh costing £39,999 with all the options on it including a jacuzzi on the roof.
     
  2. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Road tax stopped being about funding the roads donkeys years ago. It's just another way of squeezing money out of people now.
    It'll hit sales and then dealers will just stop discounting and they'll pay the tax. The second hand car market will get a boost and the tax will only really affect the people who can't afford it.
     
  3. Take Mitsubishi outlander plug in hybrid
    Sits across the £40k barrier so load it with a few options and its soon into wealth tax land
    Up until April tax was £0
    From April tax year 1 is £0 + £310, year 2 £130 + £310, year 3 £130 + £310. So over 3 years the price increase is £1,190
    Why would anyone now buy one? Its not particularly good looking or good at anything and its now lost its one advantage
    Like you say its going to hit new car sales, and it's going to hit alternative fuel new car sales
     
  4. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Funny you say that as there's a very popular thread in A.N. Other place I frequent where posters are comparing how much bang for buck they've been getting on 3 YO Beemers and Mercs. Both companies have moved to a leasing model for shifting units, hence the market is flooded with very cheap 3 YO models every year which has had the knock-on effect of Mr/Mrs/Ms private owner being unable to sell their motors.

    I *think* (hope) that the car tax escalator for battery driven motors is an exceptionally rare case of government joined-up thinking. The single most energy inefficient method of powering anything is by batteries (and don't forget that that power to charge them has to come from "somewhere"). I *believe* (wish) that someone has pointed this out to our Overlords so the "Smoke and Mirrors" greenwash nonsense of battery powered cars is slowly being euthanised by tax. The industry really needs to be dragged kicking and screaming towards fuel cells (the problem with these is what fuel's used - I spent a very long time working on the M of PEMFC's).
     
  5. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    This man gets it.

    Electric cars just shift pollution from point of consumption to point of production. Given that conversion or energy and indeed energy storage have their inherent losses as well as the nasty stuff used to produce batteries and the problems of disposing of them when they die, actually a frugal petrol car is probably better for the environment overall. Discounts for electric cars were misguided.

    The best thing people can do is reduce their travelling. Promotion of working form home, improvements in internet & video conferencing etc.
     
  6. Full electric I agree, but with the 'bolt on supercharger' approach to hybrid by the luxury German brands along similar lines to F1 they start to make a lot of sense - the motor can be programmed to fill in the gaps in the torque / power curve and give really nice linear power and torque delivery. Electric motors deliver full torque from standstill so you get stonking acceleration. I test drove an e300 coupe some months back and considering it's a 4 cyl 2 litre petrol I was really impressed at the drivability, I imagine with a rolling road rechip you could comfortably see 300 hp and still keep it linear and driveable + still have fuel economy in the 40 to 50s.

    And not a smoky power station in sight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  7. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    A) this becomes less true when scaled up. Firms like Tesla are building giant solar powered manufacturing centres in the New Mexico desert, to make the process more efficient.

    B) either way, ECs still vastly improve street level air quality, which contributes to fourty thousands deaths a year in the U.K.

    Therefore it's absolutely bonkers how they are not pushing this more, and is purely to do with maximising tax in the short term.
     
  8. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    @miked2006 Elon Musk's latest factory could be the size of the moon and powered by pixie tears for all the effect it would have on batteries being an exceptionally inefficient method to power anything.

    I fully agree with you electric cars are probably the way forward- just not battery powered ones.
     
  9. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    I hope the tax costs don't spiral out of control too much, as I've just forked out on my new motor and I don't have much cash left over. Will probably drive to the game in it this Saturday. What do you think...?!

    McLaren-Hornet.jpg
     
  10. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Not much mate. Where's the tow bar hitch and the roof-rack?
     
  11. Buy a second hand one but one of the improved facelifted models ('16 on). the tax is not retrospective.
     
  12. I'm not sure that is quite true. Petrol engines are incredibly inefficient at converting the potential energy in the fuel into work done - a typical petrol engine is 20% effecient, a diesel 40% (which partly explains better mileage) the bulk of the lost 80% is lost in heat.
     
  13. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Efficiency isn't the issue though when comparing different power sources unless on a like for like basis. I also question your figures as petrol engines can towards 50% these days but I digress. Obviously efficiency is important and it needs to improve, once a power train is chosen.

    But comparing the watts a battery gives out to the watts petrol gives out is a misnomer. What amount of battery vs amount of petrol do you compare? volume, weight, time to fill up? Also you need to take into account the energy loss from the source of the power to getting it into the battery and the petrol / diesel used to deliver the petrol to the pump. Quoting a simply energy conversion state is not satisfactorily representing the discussion.

    The promotion of electric cars is driven by the need to cut pollution. This is somethign we all agree on. (Apart from Trump)
    We need a measure of pollution units per mile for each power train to determine whether continued promotion of electric is the way forward. This pollution rating also needs to take account of production of the cars, materials and also disposal. We have huge mountains of electrical equipment with varying levels of nasty chemicals that are being sifted through by third world children. Batteries & motors contain nasty, hard to obtain and dispose of chemicals. Plastics do not biodegrade. Batteries have a limited shelf life.

    The only long term solution is to reduce our need to travel. I'd argue that investing in electronic infrastructure, and more reliance on locally produced goods is a better area to focus our attention.

    Buying a new car every 2 or 3 years also doesn't help.

    There was a good article that was referred to in a similar discussion on the radio a few weeks ago. I forget who or where but the gist was that advances in technology are pretty much always market led rather than by government agenda. Instead of outlawing or over taxing ICEs we need to concentrate on making better less polluting alternatives cheaper, more convenient and more desirable than ICE transport and they'll eventually die out.
     
  14. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    I wouldn't want one .... it's still got Puma stickers on.
     
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  15. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Just don't take it to away games if you want the windows and paintwork to remain pristine.
     
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  16. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    Forestieri drives around Sheffield in it.
     
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  17. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    No Forestieri drives a Subaru Forrestierier. He's seen racing Alman Abdi in his Aldi sponsored Audi. They left because they couldn't keep up round the Watford ring road vs Troy's Deenyghini.
     
  18. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Great find. Would love this GT3 to be parked outside the club shop every Saturday match day. *Except for the Liverpool game.
     
    Jossy likes this.
  19. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    I'll probably take it via Bury Park on the way to the game Saturday......:eek:
     
  20. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    Hey mods! why no whoosh emoji?
     
  21. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    I can photoshop out the wheels in order to prepare mentally for the inevitable conclusion to it being parked there on August 12th!
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  22. The Whoosh Magnet

    The Whoosh Magnet Academy Graduate

    Just pull my finger.
     
  23. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    A fantastic example of this was on this morning's "Today": A. Tory the MP for Farknose was pontificating about how electric cars should be able to pull into a garage and "fill up" and the garage could charge (ho! ho!) for this service. I can fill up my motor with juice in about 5 mins (55l tank - I think including payment time) - how much "usable" charge (actually applying a potential difference) could I put into a battery at this time?
     
  24. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    I think what we need is standard replaceble rechargeable battery packs. Drive over a hole in the ground. Battery whipped out. Freshly charged one popped back in. You're charges for one battery when you buy the car and for the cost of charging up the replacement at the petrol electric station.
     
  25. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    Think i will take the bus..

    wfcbus.JPG
     
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  26. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Slightly OT, but I can’t believe how little cars have actually changed over time and haven’t been adapted for modern times, it’s all to do with human ego and our desire to drive something flash, and that’s coming from a car lover who has always had (for me at least) nice cars. I work in a brand new office, and there are spaces for about a third of us. There are no local pay and display car parks or convenient public transport links. There are constant parking issues, with peoples cars getting vandalised and notes left on their windscreens simply for parking legally on the street. If you think about your own car, for the majority of us, it’s normally stationary outside your house or place of work for the best part of 23+ hours a day, and more than likely 90% of the time when it does move it’s got one of the five seats occupied. That’s why I can’t understand how something more dynamic hasn’t been developed over time, something modular that can split off into different sections as required, it would solve parking issues and free up tons of extra space in Cities etc. I know that all sounds a bit far fetched but it’s only because we are used to the traditional car. Driverless cars will be the obvious alternative to this and for me it can’t come soon enough. As I said originally I’m a petrol head at heart, but with ever growing populations, crowded streets, towns and cities and huge environmental issues something far more dynamic is needed.
     
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  27. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Have you got a download link for that paintjob please!!!
     
  28. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Have pm'ed you.
     
  29. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Very interesting report from Autocar on Dyson's electric car which, details at how the current range produced by established manufacturers is little more than green-wash:

     
    hornmeister likes this.
  30. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Still not convinced electric is the future. If the current situation has taught us anything it's that a lot of commuting isn't really necessary and commuting shortish distances is what electric cars really excel at.

    Demand is what needs to be addressed first, whilst the technology catches up. Battery production and disposal as well as car manufacture are all hugely environmentally demanding.
     
  31. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Why hasn't hydrogen been scaled up yet? It was being talked about as the future when I was at school 20 years ago and probably for some time before that.
     
  32. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    There's a few about Toyota & Honda. IIRC hydrogen isn't particularly green to produce and it's a bugger to store and move about.
     
  33. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes a ridiculous amount of "battery" is required to run every single electric car. Not sustainable.
     
  34. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Pfft. My zeppelin has never had any problems.
     
  35. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Can I see a picture of your dirigable?
     

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