Manchester Utd 1-0 Watford - 13/05/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by SkylaRose, May 9, 2018.

  1. NemoNemo

    NemoNemo Reservist

    Since Gracia took over I think the football being played and performances have been decent overall, yes there’s been a couple of bad ones but I like the different approaches used each game with different formations. It won’t always pay off but that’s football. Our problems lie in the players, not with Gracia. As many people have said, we need significant squad improvements, if we are to make the step up we need more quality up front, in defence and in goal. I think our midfield is as good as any in the prem so unless a big improvement becomes available this is an area we shouldn’t be focusing on. I’m not a fan of us chucking money around, I much prefer a Doucouré deal than a Gray deal, but recruitment this summer is fundamental and the difference between us staying up or going down next year. I see 14th position as an improvement on last year, but i think we have under performed this season.
     
  2. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Not only that but in the last five games, we've only allowed seven shots on target, despite two of those games being away at top four teams. It's obvious that that is where Gracia is focussing, I can't believe anyone can watch us and not see that we're better drilled defensively. In the poor run under Silva immediately before Gracia was appointed, we were conceding an average of two goals a game.
     
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I believe you can write off any away game against a top 6 club. If you get anything from a game like that, then it's a bonus. We all know this, and I think most fans would accept that as a reality.

    The bit in bold I'm responding to now. Of course he didn't up a team to score zero goals. Just because that happened, doesn't mean it was deserved. We had more shots on target than Huddersfield, Spurs and United, in those games, yet lost. It's purely down to a bit of luck and the lack of quality in our finishing. All a coach can do is set up the team to be motivated, competitive and make some good tactical changes. He cannot make Deeney score a penalty, or Gray not shoot straight at the keeper or Richarlison to take easy chances. It's down to the players.

    The bit that Gracia is in charge of, I think he's done quite well.

    Look, I'm not saying he's the best coach in the world, but he's done well enough to be given a longer run at the job. I think he's doing a decent job, given the situation he inherited. Make no mistake he turned us around. We were going down under Silva and I don't think he's being given the credit he deserves in keeping us up. We could have easily fallen away from mid-table, like West Brom did. The fact we didn't, is largely down to Gracia.
     
  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Where has it been suggested that the club is too big for him? I'd say it's more obvious that the league doesn't suit him.
     
  5. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Which has been as much a fault of the players than anything else.
     
  6. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player


    There doesn’t seem any point in discussing his results further when you put forward the view that some of those results don’t count because they were against good sides! Also, it’s amusing how when we win it’s Gracia’s doing, yet when we lose it’s somebody else’s fault. You can’t have it both ways! I credit him fully for stoping our rot and for those three excellent early home wins. Equally I think he deserves some criticism for presiding over an appalling away run. I can’t stop you airbrushing it out of our regent history but I fear it will come back and bite us all.
     
  7. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    But it was that spate of "long ball into the box around the 85th minute" episodes...
     
  8. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    The players that he coaches!
     
  9. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Just as well that Huddersfield didn’t do that otherwise they would have still been in grave danger of going dowm on the final day.

    If they can do it, why can’t we?
     
  10. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I cannot agree with this part the discussion enough. Its bang on....almost. I just think me, Malts, Jumbolina and a few other on here feel that the way out of this conun
    'Yeah, I think so' is hardly an assurance of his position.
     
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    It doesn't mean you cannot pick up points against those sides, it just means it's not expected. This current Watford side has far too many weaknesses in order to manage to grind out this type of result, IMO.

    The elite sides, on their own patch, tend to work out the weaknesses and have enough quality to exploit it.
     
  12. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    The away goals is a concerning stat.

    But, I think it’s far more important that we have a manager who is highly respected. That the players look like they are fighting for him on the pitch; not easy, given the mentality of some of our players.

    I also think that the away games have been very close. In most of them, from memory, we’ve been the slightly better side. In these games, one of our players (many of which will not be here next year) gifted an easy goal to the opposition, and fluffed a chance that’s easier to miss than score.

    With a striker who can score, a centre back who can defend and a left back who can play football, we will start converting many more points on the road.
     
  13. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Wasn’t it supposed to be one of his selling points too when he arrived, that in Spain he came to public attention for getting very good results against the top sides?

    He did extremely well in beating Chelsea on that wonderful night at the Vic.

    But since then against United, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool it’s been 0-11.
     
  14. PotGuy

    PotGuy Forum Fetishist

    Today mirrored the season as a whole.

    Good performance, we mostly look like accomplished footballers, and we limit the opposition to a single real opportunity on goal

    Unfortunately for all our good play we miss three or four good chances, and inexplicably allow the opposition to score from their only real opportunity. And we get an injury or two

    We are almost a really good team, but are limited by two terrible full backs and forwards who manage to miss every opportunity they get

    With not that much work in the window we should be in a good position next year
     
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The bottom half of the Premier League is like quick-sand. A poor start will have us rooting around the bottom places all season. Chelsea started poorly a couple of years ago and a squad as good as theirs only made it up to 8th after much huffing and puffing. Make no mistake, we can't afford to be complacent or accepting of having a poor start next season just in the name of having Gracia as manager for consistencies stake. If he isn't the right man to take us forward and make us progress us 100%, he needs to be let go now.
     
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    He has offered far more to this forum that you ever have under your various guises you utter ****. You've been shown up season upon season for lies and falsehoods and then answering back with awful insults and then never engaging in debate when you are called out on them. Time for you to disappear and come back with another login Kieran.
     
  17. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    I agree with this but in principle we have a better squad than Huddersfield’s so it’s tempting, at least, to attribute some of the distinction in results to the managers.

    You’d like to think that we would have performed better had our survival been riding on it, like theirs was, but I’m not sure.
     
  18. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Huh? If Rashford and Sanchez missed sitters then yes, he would deserve criticism as he coaches them. If they scored a couple of goals each, he'd get praise as the manager who masterminded the win and the style it was done in. It works both ways and it really baffles me when people don't realise this and give Gracia a way out of criticism because of it.

    A player is missing a chance is down to that player in that individual moment. Over the course of the 90 minutes, the manager has to take collective responsibility for all the misses, goals, tackles, cards....everything. Its all on his watch. I don't get why people don't understand this or choose to ignore it.
     
  19. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    True, then again after 10 games Bournemouth, Palace and Everton made up the bottom 3 places and they all survived with ease.
     
  20. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    In the post I was replying to, obviously.
     
  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    He never suggested the league was 'too big for him'. I'd say its clear that the Spanish league is more suited to him. He has even stated as much himself in interviews and has said that he is having to adapt to the PL. Whilst that isn't a fault, suggesting he goes back to somewhere he has openly said he's more suited to, isn't what you're claiming has been said.
     
  22. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    I read somewhere the other day, that of the sides outside the top 6 we have the best record against the top 6 this season. I havent actually checked this yet to see how true it is. But by my reckoning we have taken 8 points off them and really we should have got something from Chelsea & Spurs away as well as today. By comparison we only took 13 points from the 36 on offer against the bottom six.
     
  23. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Ok, thanks for sticking your oar in mate! Would be better if you actually read the posts before blundering in, but thanks anyway.
     
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I’m not sure I understand you? This is a public forum is it not? I enjoy debating you. Seems a weird route you’re going down with that response.
     
  25. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    In Gracia's defence he came in with a job to keep us up.

    Swansea and Stoke and West Brom had managers come in to try and do the same.

    And Gracia managed it.
     
  26. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    He did. But it’s not a fair comparison. After Silva’s excellent early season work we needed 8 points from Gracia’s 15 games to stay up I think? He achieved that comfortably with many points to spare. But for a manager to take us down from that position would have been simply catastrophic.

    It’s not fair to say Lambert and Carvahal had the same task. Silva would have also kept us up in my opinion given the run of winnable home games we had remaining, even with a seemingly fractured squad.
     
    Malteser likes this.
  27. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player


    We’ve done well at home under Gracia.

    I’m just wondering how you’d reply if I said (for the sake of playing Devil’s Advocate) a few of his home results were lucky and that you can’t really count the win against Brom as they were bottom so of course we were always going to win that one!

    I’m fairly sure you’d (quite correctly) tell me that a win is a win even if it’s a fortunate one, and of course you have to count a win against a bottom side.

    So, being fair and balanced, I think you have to apply the same logic, rules and standards when assessing the away run.

    Equally there a loss is a loss even if an unlucky one, and all results count, not just those against sides around or below us.

    If a Head Coach is at least partly responsible for any win, then by the same logic he’s partly culpable for a loss.

    If every loss is solely the players fault, or the fault of our recruiting department, then logically every win should be put down solely to this too. Indeed do we even need a Head Coach if that’s so?

    All I ask is the same standards of logic are applied on both sides of the debate. It’s my opinion they’re not, because whenever we lose some people think it’s never anything to do with Gracia, but when we win it is.

    Some people seem to fear change as if we are a club like Arsenal who’ve had the same manager for 22 years until today. But we’re not. We are a club who change Head Coach for a hobby, and the fear that we better not again now because we couldn’t possibly find anybody better or because other people might laugh at us seems crazy.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
    Chumlax, Happy bunny and Burnsy like this.
  28. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Fair enough. I'm on the fence about him anyway regarding away form, I was just looking on the bright side lol.
     
    Jumbolina, Malteser and Burnsy like this.
  29. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Yes that’s true.

    Equally under both coaches, we’ve lost all our away matches against the top 9.
     
  30. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yeah to be honest I am in the out camp but not against giving him pre season and the first half of next season to implement his ideas. The performance of the recruitment team is more important this summer.

    As an aside just looking at Cavalhal he got 20 points from his 18 games which is pretty amazing considering they lost their last 5 games! Just shows how bad they were at the start of the season.
     
  31. HornetMan

    HornetMan Academy Graduate

    Just got back, I don't really know what to feel about that, it wasn't great but wasn't terrible either, just sort of 'meh', a fitting way of ending this season imo

    We passed the ball around quite well at times, Hughes and Pereyra are vital to our link up play, but at the same time we really suffer for it defensively as someone stated earlier, neither are defensive minded enough like Cleverley and Caps and so our back 4 are exposed time and time again. That being said, the defense wasn't the main issue today imo, they did quite well to limit Rashford and Sanchez to 1 shot on target. Unfortunately for us it was the one they scored from. Alexis Sanchez btw has gone backwards as a footballer.

    Speaking of going backwards, Richarlison. I know he's only 21 and still getting used to the league , country etc etc but my god he's regressed. He looks bereft of any confidence whatsoever and I do feel for him but he's a professional footballer and he can't beat a man at all; a shadow of the unknown we saw in August-November.

    Overall today wasn't as bad as expected, 1-0 against a team who clearly had their minds on the FA Cup final isn't too bad, the no away goal since January is a concern for next season, but I feel the players enjoy playing for JG much more than MS and it does show on the pitch so hopefully with a full pre season, and A LOT of comings and goings, maybe he is the man to take us forward. Doucs is off no doubt about it, a midfield of Chalobah, Pererya, Hughes, Cleverley and a new signing could be very very good.
     
  32. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The thing is, you've not wanted Gracia from day one. He has to win you over, and clearly that has not happened. You're seeing every negative and you're promoting it. Had Deeney scored that penalty at Arsenal, then your "no away goals" stick wouldn't be quite so big.

    All I'm saying is that Gracia deserves his chance. We're not in hopeless freefall, as besieged our last three seasons.

    Don't forget, Gracia DID keep us up. He inherited a lot of problems. We are top of the injury league, we are top of the inept league. These are all things he inherited. This tells me he's working with one hand tied behind his back.

    Performances are much better. I've witnessed this myself from the home games. We're playing better at home than at any time under Silva or Mazzarri. For this, I'm thankful to him for giving me some games that are actually worth watching.

    He deserves his chance, and it looks as though he's going to get it. So you may as well accept the situation, or else it's going to give you a lot of angst.
    The only way Gino would move him on is if performances were on a steady decline. This is not the case, in fact it's quite the opposite. The performances are actually surprisingly good, considering the limited players he has in certain positions.
     
  33. another_mrlizard

    another_mrlizard Squad Player

    [​IMG]

    And pretty soon a bunch of men in their 50's and 60's will start debating the design of a football kit.
     
  34. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Red shorts or black mate?
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    One small consolation for losing today, was that it didn't really cost us much. Had we won we'd have only finished 13th.

    We earned £113.9m in prize money, which is an improvement on last season.
     
    Malteser likes this.

Share This Page