Supprised theres no thread. Looking lively against the Scotch. Coverage is good. The future Mrs Meister Eni Aluko on punditry as well.
The problem with women's football is men. More precisely that men compare it like for like with the men's game and find it inferior as a spectacle. Personally i see it as a separate sport. Not an inferior sport.. just a different one.
It was laughable about 5 years ago. Watched the Woman's world cup around then and they were awful, I men really bad. Goalkeepers were really bad - any shot on goal pretty much went in. Anyway, they are really pretty good now. Will be a good tourney and something to fill in the next 3 weeks. Hope we can do well. Semis probably. Out on pens!
I've been watching this. Some excellent skills. On Wednesday we beat Scotland 6-0. Five of the six goals were excellent conversions. Only one scramble. An excellent couple of one-on-one conversions (with a dink and a lob) from the hat-trick hero, Jodie Taylor. How many times do you wish in the men's game that the forward would 'give it a bit of air'? A tricky to keep it down and on target conversion from a cross-bar rebound from Ellen White. A perfectly executed 15 yd volley from Jordan Nobbs. Set yourself, head over the ball, no need to try and knock the laces off it. Remember that? And finally a clever headed diversion from Toni Duggan from an already powerful header from Steph Houghton. All skillful and clinical stuff. Last night against the Spaniards (2-0 to us) was completely different. They gave us an object lesson in tika-taka (eight from Barcelona in their side) and we gave them an object lesson in that there's no point in tika-taka if you don't create some chances from it. Again, two excellent one-on-one finishes from Fran Kirby and Jodie Foster. The only disappointment last night? The officials. A magnificent header from Millie Bright (that would have put us 2-0 up in the sixth minute) denied for no apparent reason and a bizarre decision to convert a potential Spanish penalty into a 'bounce ball for us'. Whatever that might be. The point in all this? There's plenty of skill on offer and it's exciting. Personally I've found it a lot more exciting than our recent excersions into the finals of international competitions on the men's front and, am accordingly, perfectly happy to invest in it emotionally. Some previous comments on this thread have suggested that it's not only Scum Town where the Neanderthals reside. Be confident around women and their legitimate aspirations. Join the 21st century. And enjoy!
I'm not sure how won it 2-0! Spain were tricky and we seemed incapable of keeping the ball,it was reminiscent of watching the men! Great goal by George Kirby though and as Kelso says some very odd decisions from the officials.
Excellent post KelsoOrn, just one point though... I'm pretty sure Jodie Foster is happy living off her cinematic & theatrical income rather than turning out on a wet Sunday night in Breda for England and sealing a win with our second goal. Jodie Taylor on the other hand may have provided the finish. And (on a general point and not aimed at you at all KelsoOrn) as Stevohorn has already suggested, it's no good comparing women's football to men's because they're two different entities. I'm not into dancing in any way shape or form but I'm sure Rudolf Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn weren't compared like-for-like. Due to the differing physicalities each gender has they'd have been lauded for what they could do rather than criticised for what they couldn't.
Ta and whoops! I don't think there was anything 'freudian' going on there. And the new 15 min rule precludes further amends ...
Cant say I watch much of it but since we did so well in the World Cup a couple of years ago I've kept an eye on the ladies' results. Look to have started well here with two wins, I cant remember the last time our mens team started a tournament with two wins?!? We've got a good team, one of the favourites and no doubt if we get to the latter stages (semi-finals) a lot more people will begin to tune in. Have seen the highlights of our game against Spain. What on earth was the ref playing at there? Should have definitely been a penalty for Spain! Gives a penalty for handball, changes her mind. Then we go up the other end a few minutes later to make it 2-0! Awful officiating.
It's not though, is it. It's football. Low quality football. Speaking from an equality perspective it shouldn't be seen as a completely separate sport to men's football, what an earth would all the feminists think of that?! I don't watch women's football not because it's women, but because generally it's f****ing awful quality, akin to what you'd see in the deep depths of the lower leagues of the men's game, which I'd also never choose to spend my time watching.
The penalty decision is explained here... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40701230 You may not agree with the rule but in the end the referee made the correct decision based on pre-tournement outlines re. accidental handballs. For the majority of the time last season it was similarly implemented if the ball hit a defending players hand/arm from very close range it was deemed accidental or impossible to avoid, especially if the hand/arm was in a natural position. In the main it seems sensible otherwise attackers will just flick the ball up towards the hand/arm to win a penalty at every opportunity. From the above article... England defender Bronze's intervention proved key to changing referee Carina Vitulano's mind. "Before the tournament, Uefa send referees in to have meetings with you and they said if it hits you or is a deflection it's not really a handball - you can't really help it," said Bronze. "I saw it right in front of me and I was like 'that is not a penalty' - it's hit her leg and then gone up and hit her arm. It's a deflection and [the referee] said 'you're right, it's my mistake'. "Fair play to her for doing that. I don't think a lot of referees would be brave enough to do that in such a big game and such a big decision. "I think the Spanish girls were a bit disappointed and annoyed but, if they watch it back, they will see it is a completely accidental handball." Bronze added: "There are a lot of grey areas. I really paid attention [in those meetings]. I had my book out and everything, making sure if I was playing I knew exactly what was a yellow card and red card. "There are some different kind of refereeing laws in this tournament so, as a defender, you really need to be switched on."
Well ok "different sport" was an awkward analogy from me.. Oxhey said it better above when he said they were two different entities. I guess it depends what you get out of football. Plenty of people loyally follow clubs in the lower reaches of the leagues. Some even go watch junior football or two pubs teams on a muddy pitch down the Rec.. and some people find that to a touch weird. Each to their own. Ive been to see a few live women's games here in Norway and found it a refreshing experience. What i got from it was that they were giving it their all.. even if technically it wasnt so advanced. Perhaps your thing is that you need to see a certain skill level to enjoy the game, that's your prerogative, and fair play if you dont judge the women any differently. I feel a lot of men do indeed compare like for like though.
I watch quite a bit of womens football, mainly because once or twice a month I am either refereeing or running the line for a ladies game. Ladies football is played with a very different style to mens football. I dont think that makes it worse, and some of the skills/goals/tackles etc would be impressive if you had seen them at Vicarage Road. I also think it is great that womens football is getting more publicity and coverage and I sometimes I wonder whether I would prefer to watch some of the ladies games than some of the half-arsed dross you get from the mens teams at international level friendlies.
Really interesting documentary on 4OD (Channel 4) about the Womens game and how the FA banned it (and why) from 1921 to 1971
Here it comes. Moving south across the border from Bedfordshire. Swinging 'side to side' gait, dragging its knuckles along the ground. If you choose not to watch it, how can you possibly comment on its quality? How about commenting on the quality and coolness in front of goal of seven out of our eight goals so far? Oh, you can't because you haven't seen them! Personally, I'd be showing those videos to our own strikers (whoever they might be) pre-season educating them on exactly how to take your chances. As far as I can see the skill level is right up there. Why should men be more 'skillful' than women? Obviously the physicality isn't there in the same way. Men are stronger than women. Hey-ho. Who'd have thought it? I doubt there'd many feminists who'd be disagreeing with that.
A perfect explanation of why the pen. wasn't given. Rightly. What I didn't get was why, when the decision was bravely reversed, it ended up as a bounce ball with our goalie given a free hoof. Is that part of the 'reverse decision' rules? In addition, it really shouldn't be up to Lucy Bronze to be reminding the ref. about the rules. It was very clearly accidental with no 'trying to gain advantage' hands/arms.
Why did England get the bounce ball? I've no idea and cannot for the life of me remember where the ball ended up after the accidental handball. Possibly, and I'm only guessing, England had got possession of the ball. It shouldn't be down to any player to remind an official of the rules. Again I cannot remember 100% but are the referees mic'd up to each other and the fourth official? Maybe that was the reason the decision was actually reversed and any player talking to the ref was just doing what they do when anything is given against them. Being an England game it was easy to get and publish the quotes from Lucy Bronze while talking to match officials is akin to gaining access to State secrets!
Is it not a bounce ball if the play was stopped incorrectly? Genuinely not sure but that would seem like the most common sense thing to do in that circumstance.
That's probably the correct call. Gone are the days of a bounce ball that was challenged for by both teams, with the side in a defensive position usually given the ball.
Just to get this right, you're saying you believe the skill level/technical footballing ability at the top of women's game to be comparable to the top of the men's game?
I'm saying they're getting there. Why would you think women should be less skillful? I'm saying that if you want to see how to convert chances into goals then take a look at our last two matches. I'm saying that this constant need to compare the men's and women's games is really rather boring. As Stevo has pointed out. I'm saying that those dinosaurs who feel the need to deny women access to their little feifdoms, or their little clubs, or equal pay, are somehow lacking and insecure. Like the MCC pavilion at Lords. Or Muirfield golf club. I've never been keen on stag nights.
That's fair enough. I'd rather poke my eyes out with sticks than watch tennis, much to the amusement of my tennis loving friends. What I would say is I've watched the ladies game at amature level for the last 10 years and watched my own daughter play for better teams as she's progressed. Subsequently I've seen the better players that she now plays with and against, and can say without doubt that the skill level shown by some of the ladies is absolutely up there with the best of the equivalent boys at that age, all the way to the pros. What they don't have is the physicality to match the skill, obviously. If you put an under 16 boys team against an under 16 ladies team with the same skill set the boys would beat them by a country mile, but it's not due to the boys being more skillful. The ladies game is growing in this country, (I believe it's now the most popular sport for girls), and whilst it'll never become as popular as the mens game for non involved spectators, it's certainly going to get one heck of a lot more media attention and quickly. Personally I think it's superb.
Scrappy win against Portugal there. We played almost a whole B team except for one centre back and it was just enough to win, although only because of Portugal's tragic goalkeeping error in the 7th or so minute. Other than that huge mistake Portugal was really solid defensively and only twice dangerous going forward. At the end of the day though a win is a win and England takes all 9 points from its group for a quarterfinal against France who have not been at their best. Also, to those who demean the women's game for being inferior in some way to the men's: football for men has had well over a century to develop and become ingrained into the culture of the world. Boys at school have been encouraged to play sports for generations, and men's sports continue to receive more money and attention. Meanwhile, the women's game has only been played at a high level for a few decades and the top league in England is semi-professional and has only existed for 7 years. Schoolgirls were for a very long time discouraged and disallowed to play sports, and in some ways they are still pushed towards pastimes considered more "ladylike". And that's in progressive countries. So women's football has been held back by a lack of time to develop as a sport and a culture which has long prevented girls' full participation. When you then go on and insult the women's game as inferior or lower quality, it's like spitting on a homeless man who is only homeless because his house burned down and everybody saw it burn. Do a bit of soul-searching and have some bloody respect.
You're right, Kelso. Some fantastic goals by England in all three matches, and really good defending, especially by Bronze and Houghton. But I said when watching the first game that our tactics were disappointingly primitive and we wouldn't get away with losing possession so easily when we played Spain. In the event, Spain and Portugal both looked better than England for long periods of the game but our keepers never had anything to do in any of the matches and our strikers got us out of trouble. OK, some of the tackling is crap (Portugal's efforts to stop England's second goal last night, for example), and the Spanish keeper and defender on the line were unbelievably poor in gifting Scotland their goal, but I wouldn't mind seeing Watford players replicate the goals scored by Taylor, Nobbs and Duggan.
I didn't believe we've had any comments from those of our regular posters who share the chromosome arrangements of the England women's team. What do you think, girls/ladies/women?
