It's Remembrance time of year again..

aarse is full of absolute head-bangers. I haven't been on there for ages and it's the only site I didn't use the A_ML moniker on, so I doubt I'd be able to remember my details, but it used to be hilarious at times. I wouldn't set much store by any of the stuff people post on there though.

 

Blimey people get pretty angry about something that symbolises peace in this world.

I believe the money collected from white poppy sales goes to educating people about the realities of war. Doesnt sound too much like a "political agenda" to me.
Most people will wear the white poppy alongside the traditional red one as a reminder that conflict should first of all be avoided. It is also a reminder that it isnt only military personnel that suffer through conflict.
The money they raise is minuscule compared with to the RBL poppy appeal. I think when we start seeing white poppies outnumbering red ones then it would be right to raise concerns.

The RBL stance on white poppy's..
"We have no objection to white poppies, or any group expressing their views. We see no conflict in wearing the red poppy alongside the white poppy. We do ask that the items are not offered alongside each other however as this would confuse the public"

 

I'll buy a poppy and wear it for a couple of weeks. If others choose not to or want to get a white one then that's their choice. Having that choice is the whole point.

 

I sometimes wear a poppy until I always lose it a couple of hours after purchase. Sometimes I don’t. I see it just like any other charitable donation.

Nobody has ever given me any grief whatsoever for not wearing one though so not sure where the vision of poppy police comes from to be honest.

 

I haven't worn one since school. Whilst I respect the charity and have no objection to it at all, there are many causes I consider a higher priority, and I donate to them accordingly. Never have I been abused or felt judged for not wearing one.

Possibly that last bit is about to change...

 

No one is ever likely to ever give you grief for not wearing one.. or indeed wearing one.. face to face.

The "poppy police" occupy social media in the main (See my opening post for examples) and certain media sources. No big deal you might say.. but you know what people are like.. if somethings shared around enough it gets impregnated in peoples minds and that cant be healthy.
Just another thing to divide up society.

 

Like Silva not playing Okaka because they've fallen out, for instance.

 

Exactly.

I have seen Silva wearing a poppy on tv but as of yet i havent seen Okaka wearing one. Maybe this is the cause of the (alleged) falling out.

 

Really?

People don't want to join the appeal by wearing a poppy appeal

• as others have highjacked the campaign
• as it makes other people happy
• they don't want to appear vain

Meanwhile the charity loses out. Nice logic.

Personally, I contribute and wear the poppy so it puts potential poppy sellers off looking at me for (another) donation.

Where is the harm?

 

The harm lies with people who are forcing the symbolism of the poppy on to people while cheapening the original meaning of charity and remembrance.
Personally that wouldnt put me off buying or displaying a poppy.. but judging from some of the responses here i would say some people are being put off doing so. The logic of forcing people to show respect or contribute to charity should also be questioned.



Those Asians guys that burned poppies some years back.. and that was really the turning point.. probably would be delighted to see the furor it subsequently created. Mind you they probably also contributed greatly to increased collections for the RBL.

 

Yes, but there are many charities that are far more intrusive. Every time I go to the supermarket I have to run the gauntlet at the door. Boy scouts offering to pack my food. Every train station or tram station has a Big Issue seller. Everytime I walh along a shopping precinct I am grabbed by someone wanting to sign me up for the RSPCA or whatever.

The Poppy campaign is just a week or so, once a year, and I generally find them far less pushy that most of the others. I dont think they should suffer because imbeciles want to make a political issue of it. To avoid contributing because of them, is letting them win.

 

Well, from the title I could tell exactly where the writer was going to go, stating that the poppy should be ditched as he/she thinks it has lost its meaning. It may be his/her opinion but not everybody feels that way. I donate because I hope that the money goes to a good cause and I wear the poppy as a show of appreciation and rememberence. I have been known to stop at work at 11 am on the 11th and just imagine what it was like living through that period, the people who fought, the people that died, the conditions and the hardship, but that’s me, I can be sentimental at times. I think it’s the least that people can do, just stop, put the smart phone down, stop what you’re doing and be quiet for a few seconds.


So back to the article, it’s obvious that people in the public eye should’nt be abused for not wearing a poppy. As always it it an overly vocal minority making all the noise who get all of the attention. Empty vessels and all that.

The article brushes briefly on the origins of the poppy before conjuring images to the reader that only EDL members and other far right groups wear the poppy. I’m pretty sure that people other than white people wear them too. It incinuates that poppy wearers are the pub bore and again ties it all in with the right wing nob-heads by mentioning Brexit (you can picture Farage in a pub proudly wearing a poppy with a pint can’t you?)
If you don’t fit into these stereotypes then you must be the type who over-reacts to trivial matters comparing them to the blitz spirit, even though the wars have no direct meaning to you. Mentions of propaganda to forge a link between poppy wearing and being duped. It’s plain dumb it goes on. It’s not healthy. Unhinged.

A two week Twitter spat with digs at Germany? Not me, they had soldiers too. Besides when has twitter been an indicator of level headed thinking?


It asks the questions how long we should mourn, before suggesting that wearers may need counselling. That is surely the wrong question, it should be; how long should we remember?

If you’ve got this far, despite my multiple posts and this lenghty post on the subject, I don’t actually care whether anybody else wears a poppy or not. I just object to people having a go at those that do, the anti-poppy facists, they seem to be as bigoted as the empty vessels on the other side. I guess I’m just anti the anti’s (oh god I’m quoting James O'Brien now). I’m sure I’ll be likened to being some of the things above, probably the pub bore, maybe that’s right but I quite enjoyed writing this.

 

Absolutely. Ive never considered poppy sellers as being intrusive. They are just.. there.. and of course should be.


Talking of other charities i remember some years back, not long after my mum passed away, my father was contributing when he could to several charities. One of those charities kept ringing my him to get him to sign a monthly standing order rather than contributing on an irregular basis. Anyway there was a time they rang when i was visiting and i could hear how much pressure they were putting on him. I ended up grabbing the phone off him and.. well i was less than charitable lets say. I pointed out my father was a pensioner and was contributing what he could and in the end the guy admitted that he was on a commission for getting people to sign up for regular contributions.. of course he was.
I know not all charities operate this way but it's made me sceptical to fundraising and i feel bad for thinking that way.

 

M

Many charities do operate that way. I imagine that, just like the scam callers, they had a very good idea what age range your dad was in. I suppose its the inverse of the effect that some old boy/old dear has on me for the poppy appeal!

 

I wear my poppy with pride, as it’s a time of year I remember my mates who gave everything for our freedom, also the families that still suffer today the little boy who’s growing up with out a father. It’s not much to ask. It’s a shame but I see old guys who lost limbs serving in Northern Ireland and kids don’t know why or what was going on just a short time ago. I’ve witnessed first hand how the legion helps our war vets and they do a great job helping some out that would otherwise be forgotten


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I shall be purchasing a simple red paper poppy this year and putting a quid in the box. As I do every year. I'll wear it until it falls off and if it falls off in the next eight days then I'll purchase another one. This is in addition to a metal one which I wear permanently. For convenience's sake as mentioned earlier. Not because I'm trying to avoid my annual subs. Interestingly though, I have been asked whether I'd served in the armed forces on the strength of that permanent poppy. The answer is no.

Freedom of choice is all here. There's something ironic in the position of right-wing thought police groups who would deny that choice (or attempt to shame others into making a particular choice) while neatly forgetting that many of those who died on our behalf did do so to maintain our freedom of choice.

Red poppy, white poppy, no poppy. It's all fine by me. That would seem to be the position of the RBL too as long as red and white ones aren't sold alongside each other in direct competition. They're fine with the timing and that receipts from white poppy sales go to a different organisation. Wear both alongside each other if you like. As long as the colours don't run and you end up with pink poppies. We can all be doing without those.

The only thing that really annoys me in all this is facist groups attempting to hijack it all for their own ends. Many of those that died fought against facists. I haven't seen it yet this year, but last year there were various posts doing the rounds conflating wearing the poppy with pride and sympathy for homeless veterans on the one hand with the plight of refugees on the other. What utter b.llocks. Those issues have got nothing to do with each other at all. And there's no need for anyone to be sleeping on the streets in this nation. All the services are there if an applicant chooses to access them and/or is in a fit mental state to do so. And if their mental health is in question there are outreach workers to assist there too. It's got b.gger all to do with refugees.

The common factor between these extreme right-wing groups in failing to or choosing to ignore the irony of their position is that the vast majority of them are as thick as pig's sh.t.

 

I was thinking the article brought up some good points.. some i agreed with.. some i didnt. Food for thought i.. ermmm.. thought.

One thing i didnt agree with him on was that it was "time to ditch it" I think that was a purposefully provocative title to get you to read the rest of it personally. He also made the point about the great wars being a long time ago now. To me that shouldnt be an issue because the poppy symbol, should at least, be about the fallen from all conflicts. Though i realise some people have missed that point.
Where i did agree with what he had written concerns the increasing pressure we see every year to be seen to display your remembrance. Even the RBL have noticed this and have stated that any form of compulsory poppy wearing would mean the symbol 'losing all meaning'
It seems to me that in certain areas (Public figures, sport, the visual media) we are coming close to compulsory poppy wearing.

More food for thought.. http://www.ladbible.com/news/news-a...ople-will-not-wear-a-poppy-this-year-20171102


Anyway i didnt start this discussion to suggest we should drop the poppy.. far from it. Though whenever you bring up the suggestion that people are going OTT with the whole poppy thing you get people who instantly believe you are a raving lefty trying to bring the country's institutions & traditions! Another symptom of how provocative the subject has become me thinks.
I was pleased to see that the responses here have, in the main, been understanding that no matter what your thoughts on the subject are personal choice remains key.
That's been refreshing to see.

 

that’s because you didn’t put it in the politics section! If you had, there would have been personal insults galore!

 

From the article:

One in three of those polled felt wearing a red poppy to mark Remembrance Sunday should be made compulsory

They must have polled some pretty stupid people to get that stat!

 

Some the arrse stuff is very interesting with literally font-line/informative posters (three subjects at random the F35B, HMSQE/POW procurements and stuff on ISIS). It's also very good on history (I think this is my favourite thread of all time). You soon learn to "speed-read" through the headbangers - although, even some of their stuff can be eye-wateringly funny yet quote profound.

Some of the arrse's ANZAC day posts struck a real chord with me as I had a deeply unpleasant experience when I visited an RSL with a serving relative - a few years ago one ANZAC day. It went way beyond "banter" - I (we) weren't expecting such levels of abuse/hatred.

 

http://www.aliveandgiving.com/home.aspx
Is a good website for those of you that want to check how efficient / effective the charities you support is.

Personally I'd like to think that the government would provide adequate support for ex-servicemen and their families. Sadly this isn't the case.

The British legion is split into 3 charities that are listed:

ROYAL BRITISH LEGION POPPY FACTORY LIMITED
Charity No. 225348
Sector: ECONOMIC/COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT/EMPLOYMENT, PROVIDES OTHER FINANCE, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, MAKES GRANTS TO ORGANISATIONS, OTHER DEFINED GROUPS, PROVIDES BUILDINGS/FACILITIES/OPEN SPACE, PROVIDES SERVICES
Location: Northern Ireland, Throughout England and Wales

Charitable
Spend:
99%
Total Spend:
£3.210m

THE ROYAL BRITISH LEGION
Charity No. 219279
Sector: GENERAL CHARITABLE PURPOSES, THE PREVENTION OR RELIEF OF POVERTY, OTHER DEFINED GROUPS, ECONOMIC/COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT/EMPLOYMENT, ACCOMMODATION/HOUSING, MAKES GRANTS TO ORGANISATIONS, DISABILITY, MAKES GRANTS TO INDIVIDUALS, PROVIDES ADVOCACY/ADVICE/INFORMATION, PROVIDES BUILDINGS/FACILITIES/OPEN SPACE, PROVIDES HUMAN RESOURCES, EDUCATION/TRAINING, PROVIDES SERVICES, THE ADVANCEMENT OF HEALTH OR SAVING OF LIVES
Location: Throughout England and Wales

Charitable
Spend:
78%
Total Spend:
£114.480m

ROYAL BRITISH LEGION INDUSTRIES LTD.
Charity No. 210063
Sector: DISABILITY, PROVIDES SERVICES, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, ELDERLY/OLD PEOPLE
Location: Throughout England and Wales

Charitable
Spend:
100%
Total Spend:
£18.420m

I have a metal poppy badge bought couple of years ago. I do feel that the annual production of poppies is wasteful. I make an annual donation to a forces related charity (amongst other causes I support) This year it will be to:

HELP FOR HEROES
Charity No. 1120920
Sector: EDUCATION/TRAINING, OTHER DEFINED GROUPS, OTHER CHARITIES OR VOLUNTARY BODIES, ARMED FORCES/EMERGENCY SERVICE EFFICIENCY, ACCOMMODATION/HOUSING, MAKES GRANTS TO ORGANISATIONS, OTHER CHARITABLE PURPOSES, THE ADVANCEMENT OF HEALTH OR SAVING OF LIVES, PROVIDES BUILDINGS/FACILITIES/OPEN SPACE
Location: Northern Ireland, Scotland, Throughout England and Wales

Charitable
Spend:
96%
Total Spend:
£49.610m

Last year it was
THE NATIONAL MEMORIAL ARBORETUM COMPANY LIMITED
Charity No. 1043992
Sector: ENVIRONMENT/CONSERVATION/HERITAGE, THE GENERAL PUBLIC/MANKIND, PROVIDES BUILDINGS/FACILITIES/OPEN SPACE
Location: Staffordshire

Charitable
Spend:
81%
Total Spend:
£3.210m

How a person donates and why they donate is a personal thing. I don't generally like to talk about it, but I'm posting here because people need to check where their money goes to ensure it's being used efficiently. Too many charities exist for paying high salaries with relatively little going to the causes they purport to represent. Also too many people do not support the RBL because they misunderstand what they support. They are not there to support wars or particular agendas, they are there to support those that have fought and the families of those that have fought in defending this and other countries.

 

No, the funniest threads always, always involve debates about whether or not someone is a 'Walt'. There must be one for Ant Middleton, surely?

 

The arrsepeadia on the Walts - is funny and the stuff written about "the Barron" is hysterically funny. I've noticed over the past few years that the Walt outing has really been toned down but I'm assuming there's going to be a bumper crop this season. Didn't all the Walt-hunting move to facebook?

 

I'm just back from Hockey and something I want to throw into the mix:

1. On Friday I was in St Albans Girls School and experienced a reasonably dignified 2 minutes silence (at 11h00) - I say reasonable as someone complained (during the silence) that there were members of staff walking about during it.
2. On Saturday I was at Oaklands college and experienced a dignified 2 minutes silence at 11h00.
3. This morning, at 10h56 hockey training was paused - the kids made to line up in the centre of the pitches (the goalies forming a circle).

 

Can you get a half-half red and white poppy?

 

Surely the remembrance equivilent of the football half and half scarf would be half poppy, half iron cross?

 

Something i read today..


http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/17/poppy...nding-by-charities-to-get-a-memorial-6579558/

 

Driving last night I had AQ's on and this episode's pantomime villain was some Momentum supporting Corbynista you-tuber who was claimed to have stated that the Poppy was a symbol of racist oppression (or something). Anyhoo - he mentioned some of the alarming figures about the numbers of homeless ex-servicemen and repeated that it was disgusting that this was being dealt with by a charity rather than directly by the MoD (pretty much what you wrote) - but something else he mentioned stuck with me was that the RBL "takes" 40% of donations for "overheads" - is that right or is it just one of its fundraising arms?

 

The poppy debate is interesting. Without getting into a rant or argument, I do have an issue with the poppy trend. And it is a trend, a fashion, a oneupsmanship statement and a hollow gesture. Ive got a metal poppy, that arrived late in the post so have not worn it yet. But i will tomorrow. Then i will take it off abd that'll be it.

I asked some people why there was such a massive poppy culture this year, to be put in my place that it was 100 years thia year. There is a lovely poppy display near us and there were some lovely poppy artwork the school had created. But i still dont get why. I can remember the war fallen without going to visit a church to marvel at the red lighting they've spent 100s (or more) on. I can remember the sacrifice of everyone in the wars without buying a commercial pieve of artwear or other "tat". Im going teach my children to remember why we wear them, not just to wear them. I suspect years from now kids will not remember why they are wearing a poppy, if there's not some already.

 

UNICEF is the best and most efficient of all the charities.

 

You may not use the poppy as a nationalistic symbol Smudger.. but many do & increasingly so.
I didn't agree with the recent student stance on remembrance day.. but seeing how much it's been hijacked (mainly by the right) in recent times i can kinda see their point.

I wonder how many people realise tomorrow is Armistice day and recognised worldwide.. rather than a solely British affair? Not many i'll wager.

 

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.u...steredCharityNumber=219279&SubsidiaryNumber=0

Various metrics are used. But looking at the link £159M Raised, £116M charitable spending which is 73% and also doesn't include money retained for future use.

Similar to Oxfam & RSPB, Unicef is at 65%. WhiLst in an ideal world it should be higher there's going to be operating costs.