Discussion in 'Yellow Pages' started by Cassetti's Beard, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    No - we won't need a means of exchange. Money will be abolished completely. Of course you're right that paper and metal money is as imaginary as the cryptocurrencies, so you'll concede that this would be very easy indeed to do.

    No forms of exchange, no money, no credit, no debt, no bartering - nothing. No pay. No rent. No till in the supermarket. You put into the communal pot what you can and take out according to your need. I've explained this many times and it's really very simple.

    As for the desperate self-justification used by various posters in this thread, which seem to be suggesting that cryptocurrency will somehow transfer power from the current paper/metal money oligarchs to their dear selves, thereby making things much more 'democratic' - it's a laughable fig leaf for shameless speculation.

    You'll appreciate that due to reasons of heconomics, neither we Kremlins, nor the vast enormous overriding overwhelming majority of the world's population have no opportunity or possibility to take part in this cryptocurrency speculation even if we wanted to?

    To believe that swapping economic power from one set of speculating oligarchs to another tiny set of speculators represents some exercise of democratic power transfer is just risible.
  2. Meister

    Meister Meister

    The fat ******* that leaves in the house next to me who doesn't work continues to gorge himself whilst I work hard for a living only to find out he's swiped all the bread from the supermarket when I finally trudge home at 8pm.

    Humans are inherently lazy and greedy. Unless there is a system to control it. Society will fall. This has been proven in pretty much every true communist economy.
  3. jw-

    jw- Reservist

    Though I side with you I don't think this undermines the point. If Iceland decided to use horribly inefficient lightbulbs, but they were powered by 100% renewables, it wouldn't make the choice to use a bad technology any better. There should be a discussion about the cost of energy required by some of these currencies. Though, as another poster pointed out, proof-of-work isn't the only way to implement things so Clive's point doesn't undermine crypto as a whole.

    how about every person who used them had a say in their policy

    I don't see how this works with crypto. Currently those who decide policy are the technological elite with the understanding of crypto, or those with enough money to implicitly affect policy be investing.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  4. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Piffle. We've been through this many times and if you want me to explain again, I suggest we do it on a politics thread rather than diverting this one.

    But just to recap, humans are most certainly not inherently lazy and greedy. Certainly people are twisted by brutal capitalism into appearing lazy and greedy, but that doesn't mean it is something inherent to the state of being human.

    Is a person who groans at the prospect of another day spent standing on Lord Topp's chicken processing production line in a quest to increase his profits still further, inherently lazy?

    Is a person who's engaged in capitalism's stupid struggle to survive every day hand to mouth and grabs what they can for themself in response, inherently greedy?

    I'm sure you'll find that once we've abolished dirty capitalism and all its foul workings, people will appear 'inherently' a whole lot nicer all of a sudden!
  5. Meister

    Meister Meister

    Yep take it to the politics section.
  6. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I was trying to get a rise out of Clive, but he has outdone himself with the masterpiece of trolling above your post.

    I maintain, however, the point about renewable energy, insofar as Iceland is concerned at least. Clive made a point about resources and pollution, but with Geothermal energy, there are none, so the point is moot. Whether the energy is being diverted from other uses is a valid point, however. Also it's valid to point out that Iceland, despite the concentration of mining operations, is still a minnow compared to China, for example, which uses fewer green power sources.

    With regards democracy, the fact is that Crypto has various tiers for the man on the street to get involved.

    1. Develop - yes this is very much a minority pursuit, so there are only a few people in a thousand who can develop software for crypto, but in theory, the door is always open, whether the skills are widespread is another matter.
    2. Mine - mining is again, a minority activity and with cost implications.
    3. Use - crypto gives people a number of choices about which coins to use. This is not available for fiat currencies.
    4. Social media and community - most cryptos have active communities and the support base of each is amongst these channels, whether on Slack, Discord or Telegram. It gives a platform for users to make their opinions known and a groundswell of opinion in such a community is likely to have some effect on future development.

    I don't think that Crypto is perfect, or indeed that democracy in crypto is ideal either - look at the idiots who chase quick profits on Tron or Verge, without bothering to understand what they are buying first - but I think that the possibilities offered by Crypto are fascinating and can definitely be a force for good.
    Arakel and jw- like this.
  7. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    You'll never get Clive on board because he's completely opposed to the very concept of currency. If you start from that position, it doesn't matter if the crypto contributes towards curing cancer, that person is still not going to like it.

    For people who accept currency as a reality, crypto clearly offers some incredible possibilities.
  8. Meister

    Meister Meister

    I bet if we developed the peoples coin and gave it out to everyone free of charge he'd be well up for it.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I wouldn't bet on anything as far as Clive's concerned.

    The concept outlined in his post are outside of the bounds of imagination, let alone possibility.
  10. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Meister likes this.
  11. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    Ive been following this story too. It makes me laugh that publicly,senior GS execs are very critical of crytpos, BTC and ETH too and yet behind the scenes they are spending $3-400 mill on a crypto exchange with the promise of making it a one stop shop for everything FIAT to Crypto related business ie Norm friendly website.

    Its pretty apparent that they ve realised that they are behind the game and so they send out bearish signals to try and keep prices down whilst they buy into the eco system as fast and hard as they can.

    I would be angry if I didnt feel confident that the traditional financial institutions will be fighting a rear guard action over the next few years.
    reids likes this.
  12. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    This chart of total market cap is interesting when observed in LOG scale. ( you need to click from LIN to LOG on option below graph)

    It shows that the recent boom is nothing new and not even the biggest one yet. After each boom there is consolidation period, then a gentle rise and then another boom period.

    It feels like we are consolidating now and with another boom probably insitaged by the influx of institutional money that seems to be waiting in the wings.
    reids likes this.
  13. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Gents (and ladies if we have any who are into crypto, though I haven't seen any),

    I have bad news.


    Diane Abbott has spoken.
  14. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever First Year Pro

  15. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever First Year Pro

    Sorry... Can someone tell me how you stop your posts going in a box when you reply to someone?.....not that good with technology!
  16. Meister

    Meister Meister

    If an eminent mathematician like Abbot thinks it's a rip off then we should all pile in now
  17. Meister

    Meister Meister

    It'll quote the post you replied to in the box, you can add your comments underneath.
    If you want to post without the quote just uses the text box at the bottom rather than replying to an individual post.
  18. Meister

    Meister Meister

    ETH Not been so good recently.
    Missed the boat to sell?
  19. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Just a double bit of bad news (apparently the people who stole some of the Mt Gox BTC have been dumping them) and the fact that yesterday Binance uncovered an exploit (now fixed and restored). Crypto has been moving sideways for a while with not much happening. As much as I'd like huge gains week after week that's sadly not possible. A bit of sideways movement is good and is a healthy sign, not sure when the next bull run will happen but i'm tipping end of March.
    Meister likes this.
  20. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Bill Gates himself confirms that Cryptocurrencies have “caused deaths in a fairly direct way”..

    The anonymity is the problem.

    “The Governments ability to find money laundering and tax evasion and terrorist funding is a good thing,” Mr Gates wrote.

    No doubt you'll all poo poo this and tell me that Gates doesn't know what he's talking about....
  21. Meister

    Meister Meister

    Considering he has previously praised crypto currencies (mentioned later in the article) it is a turnaround so I would suggest his overall position is unsure. But if you look at his criticism more carefully it's not the currency or the idea of it that he has the issue with it's the fact that it can be used for dodgy things and is difficult to track. As is cold hard cash.

    The issue is the crime not that a currency is misused within that crime in the same way that you don't blame the hammer if someone gets their face smashed in by one. They're still needed to bang nails in.
  22. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    He doesn't know what he's talking about. He's been largely ridiculed for the comments.

    Nefarious usage of crypto isn't even remotely comparable to the scale of nefarious use of fiat currency, which he seems to have no problem sitting on a big pile of. In fact, unlike cash the vast majority of crypto can, in fact, be traced. That's the entire POINT of the blockchain. All privacy coins like Monero do is make themselves as private as the average 10 pound note.

    Know what drug dealers want to be paid in? Cash.

    Know what gun runners want to be paid in? Cash.

    Know what black market organ traffickers want to be paid in? Cash.

    Know what hitmen want to be paid in? Cash.

    Funny how that works, really...
    wfcmoog likes this.
  23. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The one I hired didn't.
  24. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Hey, if you want to sell your body for homicidal services then more power to you.
  25. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    Mt Gox dump has got a lot more in it. The latest dump was 30k of BTC. He has another 160k to offload yet. Go on reddit and you can find links to his addresses and follow his sells. Many people are daytrading off this info, but far too hairy for a newbie like me, plus Im a long term macro investor.

    As soon as the rest of the crypto market can decouple from BTC the better, as there are far too many people holding huge BTC stocks who can manipulate and destabilise the market at will.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  26. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    I think that is good that there is a black woman in a position of power, there should be more.

    However she really is a fuckw1t...and Im a Labour voter....reluctantly because the alternative choices are so poor.
  27. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    Clive, if you are real socialist you would take the time to inform yourself properly of the technology that has the potential to be the greatest democratising force in the history of humanity.
  28. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss Squad Player

    If you want to trade then yes you did. However if you believe in the tech and in the product ( ie ETH) then these micro price movements are irrelevant.
    Meister likes this.
  29. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Sadly as far as I can see there will always be a number 1 crypto, whether that be BTC, Eth or something else.
  30. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    BigRossLittleRoss likes this.
  31. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Carlos hits the mainstream!

  32. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Liked, but the fact is it's actually an oligarchy of a tiny few who are manipulating BTC at present. Some lucky people got into bitcoin early, whether due to incredible foresight, to buy drugs, sell drugs, or buy and sell virtual trading cards on the net (MT GOX) stands for Magic The Gathering Online eXchange) and somehow ended up with the keys to a multi billion dollar market place.

    Mt Gox already killed Bitcoin once and is still harming it 4 years later.

    The problem is that a sizeable chunk of Crypto is a combination of newbies, who simply only know about Bitcoin, which is the obvious gateway into the market and OGs, who believe only in BTC and so poohpooh anything else.

    The fact is, BTC is not the best tech or the best solution to pay or store value IMO as it has been replaced by better solution, however it's first mover advantage is still dominating the market. This is changing, however, although not neccessarily for the best.

    Tron and XRP are very popular with the stupid newbies coming into the market and will end up likely damaging the whole of crypto in a couple of years, when loads of these people lose their shirts (already happening with people who bought at ridiculously pumped ATHs on both coins).
  33. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Tried this. You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.
  34. Meister

    Meister Meister

    WTF happened today?
  35. Meister

    Meister Meister

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